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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7077

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
March 08 2017 02:48 GMT
#141521
I don't know whether I should dislike Spicer or whether I should feel sorry for him, being the court jester and all.

Did press get back access to White House briefings?
maru lover forever
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9256 Posts
March 08 2017 02:51 GMT
#141522
On March 08 2017 11:44 xDaunt wrote:
The problem for the Dems is that they still will have the Obamacare yoke around their necks no replacement bill is passed.

Not much of a problem at the moment

[image loading]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/23/support-for-2010-health-care-law-reaches-new-high/
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 08 2017 02:52 GMT
#141523
On March 08 2017 11:51 Dan HH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 11:44 xDaunt wrote:
The problem for the Dems is that they still will have the Obamacare yoke around their necks no replacement bill is passed.

Not much of a problem at the moment

[image loading]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/23/support-for-2010-health-care-law-reaches-new-high/


the moment when a good portion of america realized, "shit i'm insured because of the ACA, that's the same thing as obamacare!"
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 08 2017 02:54 GMT
#141524
2018 debates:
Republican: vote for me because Obamacare is terrible.
Democrat: then why haven't you guys repealed it yet? You have both houses.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
March 08 2017 03:14 GMT
#141525
Oh man... if they haven't repealed and replaced by 2018 elections it's going to be a blood bath. Their own constituents will either turn on them or not show up.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12183 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 03:22:00
March 08 2017 03:21 GMT
#141526
On March 08 2017 11:44 xDaunt wrote:
The problem for the Dems is that they still will have the Obamacare yoke around their necks no replacement bill is passed.


Seems like a good thing to have long term. Coming with suggestions on how to slightly improve it instead of throwing things out and replacing it.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 08 2017 03:26 GMT
#141527
FBI is out on a mole hunt: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-prepares-for-new-hunt-for-wikileaks-source/2017/03/07/28dcb9e0-0356-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html

If there were any doubt, I think we have proof that this is authentic.

Crossing fingers for source code.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 08 2017 03:32 GMT
#141528
I wouldn't count on Obamacare being "popular" for long. It's going to collapse on itself financially.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 08 2017 03:34 GMT
#141529
On March 08 2017 12:32 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't count on Obamacare being "popular" for long. It's going to collapse on itself financially.

Its shelf life is limited, that much is true - but it's proven to be difficult to replace effectively.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12078 Posts
March 08 2017 03:47 GMT
#141530
On March 08 2017 12:14 On_Slaught wrote:
Oh man... if they haven't repealed and replaced by 2018 elections it's going to be a blood bath. Their own constituents will either turn on them or not show up.


They have had 6 years to come up with a replacement. So far, there has been nothing. (Which is incredibly silly and i still can't get over the fact that they managed to get elected on "Obamacare is horrible, we are going to repeal and replace it with something better, but so far we haven't managed to figure out anything close to a good idea of a replacement plan")

Their first attempt to replace is apparently bound to fail completely, because it is horribly bad. They can't even manage to get their own party behind their plan. And i really don't see them coming up with that amazing healthcare plan that totally solves all problems for free that they have been promising over the next two years.

I see four ways that this can go.
-They do nothing and hopefully don't get reelected (I really don't trust the american voters anymore though, so they might still get reelected)
-They replace it with a wonderful republican plan, and suddenly loads of people have no healthcare whatsoever. I hope this leads to them not getting reelected, but once again, see above
-They replace one single small thing somewhere, claim that they totally changed everything and everything stays basically the same. Depending on how good they are at convincing the voters that they did indeed totally change everything, they might get reelected.
-Some random shit happens, and everyone forgets about it for some reason. Or they just blame everything on Obama.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 04:01:34
March 08 2017 04:01 GMT
#141531
On March 08 2017 12:47 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 12:14 On_Slaught wrote:
Oh man... if they haven't repealed and replaced by 2018 elections it's going to be a blood bath. Their own constituents will either turn on them or not show up.


They have had 6 years to come up with a replacement. So far, there has been nothing. (Which is incredibly silly and i still can't get over the fact that they managed to get elected on "Obamacare is horrible, we are going to repeal and replace it with something better, but so far we haven't managed to figure out anything close to a good idea of a replacement plan")

Their first attempt to replace is apparently bound to fail completely, because it is horribly bad. They can't even manage to get their own party behind their plan. And i really don't see them coming up with that amazing healthcare plan that totally solves all problems for free that they have been promising over the next two years.

I see four ways that this can go.
-They do nothing and hopefully don't get reelected (I really don't trust the american voters anymore though, so they might still get reelected)
-They replace it with a wonderful republican plan, and suddenly loads of people have no healthcare whatsoever. I hope this leads to them not getting reelected, but once again, see above
-They replace one single small thing somewhere, claim that they totally changed everything and everything stays basically the same. Depending on how good they are at convincing the voters that they did indeed totally change everything, they might get reelected.
-Some random shit happens, and everyone forgets about it for some reason. Or they just blame everything on Obama.


Never underestimate how stupid the American voter is.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 08 2017 04:06 GMT
#141532
On March 08 2017 12:34 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 12:32 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't count on Obamacare being "popular" for long. It's going to collapse on itself financially.

Its shelf life is limited, that much is true - but it's proven to be difficult to replace effectively.

so the republican plan then would be to stall and argue, while quietly making sure the thing will fall apart on its own?
that actually makes a great deal of sense.
have a long debate arguing about how to replace it, without getting anywhere, until such time as the uncertainty, plus parts of the law being defunded, unenforced, or somesuch causes the entire system to fail sufficiently that they can scrap it/make a new law without getting blamed for repealing it, by simply claiming their fixing major problems (while omitting that those problems were caused by them in the first place).

they don't have to agree on a replacement then, or actually repeal it, just wait until it implodes on its own and causes a lot of damage on the way. horribly bad governance of course, but that's to be expected.

it's also quite consistent with their prior plans of sabotage the law to make it not work right, then complain that it doesn't work right.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5082 Posts
March 08 2017 04:11 GMT
#141533
On March 08 2017 11:25 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 11:05 Introvert wrote:
On March 08 2017 11:02 Danglars wrote:

Interesting play. Maybe trying to get Paul on board a comprehensive repeal and replace, or at least get some unity going into Draft 2.
+ Show Spoiler +






Rand Paul and Mike Lee are newly reelected. They can (and should) tell him to stuff it.

So why'd he do it? I'm even willing to accept this is reverse psychology support-plan-to-oppose, all the way to Trump overestimating his charm.


Trump is going along with the standard line we've been seeing emerge this evening: pass this bill or we will say that you voted against Obamacare repeal. It's purely political pressure, and who knows if Trump was aware at that moment that Paul won't be up for election before he is.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 08 2017 04:16 GMT
#141534
On March 08 2017 13:06 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 12:34 LegalLord wrote:
On March 08 2017 12:32 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't count on Obamacare being "popular" for long. It's going to collapse on itself financially.

Its shelf life is limited, that much is true - but it's proven to be difficult to replace effectively.

so the republican plan then would be to stall and argue, while quietly making sure the thing will fall apart on its own?
that actually makes a great deal of sense.
have a long debate arguing about how to replace it, without getting anywhere, until such time as the uncertainty, plus parts of the law being defunded, unenforced, or somesuch causes the entire system to fail sufficiently that they can scrap it/make a new law without getting blamed for repealing it, by simply claiming their fixing major problems (while omitting that those problems were caused by them in the first place).

they don't have to agree on a replacement then, or actually repeal it, just wait until it implodes on its own and causes a lot of damage on the way. horribly bad governance of course, but that's to be expected.

it's also quite consistent with their prior plans of sabotage the law to make it not work right, then complain that it doesn't work right.

Well, that was their long term plan. I don't think they thought they would win house + senate + presidency in 2016. The plan was to just continually try and repeal the plan from the house, refuse to fix any problems, and then when it collapsed claim it was a flawed plan from the start, and by the way Hillary Clinton/Obama smell of sulfur and it's all their fault. It's why there wasn't even an attempt to craft a replacement. The ones pushing for a repeal with no replacement plan even now were basically useful before but massive liabilities now.

The GOP is basically screwed on the subject now that their only replacement plan has been revealed to be the worst of all worlds and appealing to literally no one.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 08 2017 04:19 GMT
#141535
So this week essentially has four big stories:
1. Immigration ban
2. Russia investigation
3. Wikileaks CIA leak
4. Obamacare replacement

I wonder which will be buried, and which will dominate the news stream in the Trump era news climate. I'd say (1) doesn't draw much attention because it already played out before. (2) seems to have pewtered down for the moment but can resurface at any time. (3) should be big news and it might be, but the drip-drip nature of Wikileaks means we won't know for at least another few days. (4) is basically guaranteed to matter.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5082 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 04:21:10
March 08 2017 04:21 GMT
#141536
On March 08 2017 13:19 LegalLord wrote:
So this week essentially has four big stories:
1. Immigration ban
2. Russia investigation
3. Wikileaks CIA leak
4. Obamacare replacement

I wonder which will be buried, and which will dominate the news stream in the Trump era news climate. I'd say (1) doesn't draw much attention because it already played out before. (2) seems to have pewtered down for the moment but can resurface at any time. (3) should be big news and it might be, but the drip-drip nature of Wikileaks means we won't know for at least another few days. (4) is basically guaranteed to matter.


For the "average American," a term I am normally loathe to use, it has to be #4. It has the most direct effect on their lives. #2 is a backup issue, ready whenever things calm down.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 08 2017 04:22 GMT
#141537
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 04:41:11
March 08 2017 04:40 GMT
#141538
On March 08 2017 13:06 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 12:34 LegalLord wrote:
On March 08 2017 12:32 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't count on Obamacare being "popular" for long. It's going to collapse on itself financially.

Its shelf life is limited, that much is true - but it's proven to be difficult to replace effectively.

so the republican plan then would be to stall and argue, while quietly making sure the thing will fall apart on its own?
that actually makes a great deal of sense.
have a long debate arguing about how to replace it, without getting anywhere, until such time as the uncertainty, plus parts of the law being defunded, unenforced, or somesuch causes the entire system to fail sufficiently that they can scrap it/make a new law without getting blamed for repealing it, by simply claiming their fixing major problems (while omitting that those problems were caused by them in the first place).

they don't have to agree on a replacement then, or actually repeal it, just wait until it implodes on its own and causes a lot of damage on the way. horribly bad governance of course, but that's to be expected.

it's also quite consistent with their prior plans of sabotage the law to make it not work right, then complain that it doesn't work right.


Yea but in the court of public opinion wouldn't any failure in Healthcare be at the feet of republicans? They have had so much time and all they do is shit out some crappy ass plan and refuse to just fix the problems of the ACA. If the ACA implodes the Dems can just say "they just let it fail without trying to fix or replace it with anything and they had congress + presidency, what is up with that?"

The ball is very much in the republican court right now and any major failure in healthcare can be easily laid at their feet, even if its the ACA that goes belly up.
Never Knows Best.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
March 08 2017 04:44 GMT
#141539
Bloomberg reporter.

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 04:51:33
March 08 2017 04:49 GMT
#141540
Two things that I find especially fascinating about this.

1. Pence has the best numbers

2. Hillary has higher unfavorables than congress (and everyone else).



Larger point, confidence in government is trending dangerously low. Four more years of ineptitude, gridlock, and corporate leadership, sounds like Bannon's wet Dream.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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