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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 22:11:06
March 07 2017 22:10 GMT
#141461
Ugh I fat fingered the incorrect vote choice above. Regardless it is DOA. Too much opposition. I wonder how long they can avoid repealing? Do we think they get desperate enough to repeal without a replacement? The pressure from their base to act is growing.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 07 2017 22:10 GMT
#141462
On March 08 2017 06:39 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 06:35 Nevuk wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:28 Plansix wrote:
These are the people who have been arguing against section 8 forever, even those is houses so many elderly people. They subscribe to the outdated idea that proving a safety net will create dependence, like some form of addictive drug. And if you ever talk about how parts of the EU solved this problem, they try to paint it as some dystopian nightmare government oversight.

Kentucky is the promised land, where you a free to die in poverty and without health coverage.


Kentucky has the medicaid expansion, so poor people actually have fairly decent health coverage here.


Actually, I'm surprised the GOP didn't pull a Bevin. He just shut down Kynect and forced people to go to healthcare.gov instead and declared victory over Obamacare... even though all he did was make people go to a different URL to find exchange coverage.

Actually, it's a bit more ridiculous than that even. A lot of the benefits sites still use Kynect, they just redirect to it after the initial different URL.

I feel like that's the best that the GOP could do and still claim victories, but I think the insurance companies want the ACA fixed, not just renamed.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 07 2017 22:11 GMT
#141463
On March 08 2017 06:55 LegalLord wrote:
Just to put it to a poll.
Poll: Republican healthcare bill: where do you stand?

I dislike it more than not. (23)
 
85%

I like it more than not. (2)
 
7%

I am neutral about it. (2)
 
7%

27 total votes

Your vote: Republican healthcare bill: where do you stand?

(Vote): I like it more than not.
(Vote): I dislike it more than not.
(Vote): I am neutral about it.


Well the results are pretty damning..,

On_Slaught, which choice did you want?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 07 2017 22:13 GMT
#141464
I dislike the current republican healthcare bill; it seems like the same kind of kludge obamacare is. It shuffles some stuff around and hides some stuff; but fundamentally it's pretty similar just a bit less so. but it still has the stuff that causes weird dynamic effects.
it doesn't seem like it'd be worth the administrative hassle of getting through all these tweaks. every change to the system has a cost.

they should just go forth and repeal the ACA, or admit they lied and don't. just pick a path and go with it. stupid (by which I mean dislikeable) politicians.

I'm unsurprisingly disappointed.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 22:19:44
March 07 2017 22:19 GMT
#141465
On March 08 2017 07:11 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 06:55 LegalLord wrote:
Just to put it to a poll.
Poll: Republican healthcare bill: where do you stand?

I dislike it more than not. (23)
 
85%

I like it more than not. (2)
 
7%

I am neutral about it. (2)
 
7%

27 total votes

Your vote: Republican healthcare bill: where do you stand?

(Vote): I like it more than not.
(Vote): I dislike it more than not.
(Vote): I am neutral about it.


Well the results are pretty damning..,

On_Slaught, which choice did you want?


Dislike it more than not.
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2395 Posts
March 07 2017 22:21 GMT
#141466
On March 08 2017 06:08 Plansix wrote:
I shovel this all back on congress being totally unwilling to regulate anything or give a shit.. These “smart” and everything else are consumer protection nightmares. And the tech industry gives literally zero shits and has not been forced to care at all. The BBC was doing a story about child pornography being shared on Facebook. They brought it to Facebook’s attention and Facebook reported the BBC for distributing child pornography. Uber is a living dumpster fire that has somehow managed to convince themselves that they drivers are their own businesses, but can't set their own prices or pick their passengers.

Like I can’t even.

You're reacting to a story on the government spying on people through smart devices by arguing that the government should regulate smart devices - presumably to protect against government hacking.

Other problems on government regulating on new technology:
- legislation takes time, technology moves fast;
- legislators are prone to lobbying, larger firms push for legislation that favors them;
- regulations are a tax - thus favor incumbents vs new entrants;
- legislators are lawyers, do not understand technology;
- we don't even yet know what the winning standards for IoT will be. Legislation passed now is likely to become obsolete fast;
- legislation is often poorly thought out, creates negative unintended consequences;
- regulation slows down innovation;
- regulations cost money to monitor and enforce;
- companies already have the incentive to protect customers from security/privacy breaches and the spread of child pornography. Not sure how extra regulation would change the already existing incentives.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2017 22:23 GMT
#141467
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 07 2017 22:28 GMT
#141468


My favorite one.
Life?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 22:39:24
March 07 2017 22:35 GMT
#141469
On March 08 2017 07:21 warding wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 06:08 Plansix wrote:
I shovel this all back on congress being totally unwilling to regulate anything or give a shit.. These “smart” and everything else are consumer protection nightmares. And the tech industry gives literally zero shits and has not been forced to care at all. The BBC was doing a story about child pornography being shared on Facebook. They brought it to Facebook’s attention and Facebook reported the BBC for distributing child pornography. Uber is a living dumpster fire that has somehow managed to convince themselves that they drivers are their own businesses, but can't set their own prices or pick their passengers.

Like I can’t even.

You're reacting to a story on the government spying on people through smart devices by arguing that the government should regulate smart devices - presumably to protect against government hacking.

Other problems on government regulating on new technology:
- legislation takes time, technology moves fast;
- legislators are prone to lobbying, larger firms push for legislation that favors them;
- regulations are a tax - thus favor incumbents vs new entrants;
- legislators are lawyers, do not understand technology;
- we don't even yet know what the winning standards for IoT will be. Legislation passed now is likely to become obsolete fast;
- legislation is often poorly thought out, creates negative unintended consequences;
- regulation slows down innovation;
- regulations cost money to monitor and enforce;
- companies already have the incentive to protect customers from security/privacy breaches and the spread of child pornography. Not sure how extra regulation would change the already existing incentives.

The government needs a FISA warrant(or some due process) to spy on me and I don’t have a smart TV, so I’m pretty all set. I also do not give a fuck if someone can’t get VC investment because the government is regulating consumer products so random hackers can’t spy on people who just want to buy a TV. I don’t give a shit about anyone getting rich off of some dumb tech product like a smart trashcan or condom. And I could list an endless nubmer of things the tech industry does not understand, including ethics, liability and why long term planning is good.

And regulation is supposed to slow shit down and make people think about the long term prospects of what they are doing. Which is the opposite of the tech industry right now.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23897 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 22:56:06
March 07 2017 22:55 GMT
#141470
On March 08 2017 07:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/839207060667498496

My favorite one.


So Trumpcare is basically DOA, it will be Tea Party types that stop it, then Democrats will celebrate "their" win and move on from healthcare. Well played insurance companies, well played.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2017 22:58 GMT
#141471
Which appears to be why Ryan is rushing through a vote.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
March 07 2017 22:59 GMT
#141472
The biggest loser out of this ordeal will not be Trump but instead Ryan. Dudes fucked.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22288 Posts
March 07 2017 22:59 GMT
#141473
On March 08 2017 07:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/839207060667498496

My favorite one.


So Trumpcare is basically DOA, it will be Tea Party types that stop it, then Democrats will celebrate "their" win and move on from healthcare. Well played insurance companies, well played.

The democrats will move on because there is nothing they can do when they have no power.

The ACA staying is a best case scenario for the next 4 years because there is no way the Republicans will come forward with something better.

It won't get better until the Democrats get a President + super majority.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
March 07 2017 23:01 GMT
#141474
This is great. Spicer just fumbles some words but it's clear that Trump has 0 information other than the Breitbart he read. I actually feel sorry for Spicer now having to defend Trump for this lol.

Neosteel Enthusiast
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 23:09:39
March 07 2017 23:05 GMT
#141475
On March 08 2017 07:10 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 06:39 ticklishmusic wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:35 Nevuk wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:28 Plansix wrote:
These are the people who have been arguing against section 8 forever, even those is houses so many elderly people. They subscribe to the outdated idea that proving a safety net will create dependence, like some form of addictive drug. And if you ever talk about how parts of the EU solved this problem, they try to paint it as some dystopian nightmare government oversight.

Kentucky is the promised land, where you a free to die in poverty and without health coverage.


Kentucky has the medicaid expansion, so poor people actually have fairly decent health coverage here.


Actually, I'm surprised the GOP didn't pull a Bevin. He just shut down Kynect and forced people to go to healthcare.gov instead and declared victory over Obamacare... even though all he did was make people go to a different URL to find exchange coverage.

Actually, it's a bit more ridiculous than that even. A lot of the benefits sites still use Kynect, they just redirect to it after the initial different URL.

I feel like that's the best that the GOP could do and still claim victories, but I think the insurance companies want the ACA fixed, not just renamed.


ayy lmao, it's even more of a fake victory than i thought. ty for info.

on a serious note, yes, there are things that could improve the ACA for insurers, as well as consumers. they just don't happen to be sneakily eliminating the ACA carve out on deductions for insurance company executives like in the GOP plan.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23897 Posts
March 07 2017 23:05 GMT
#141476
On March 08 2017 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/839207060667498496

My favorite one.


So Trumpcare is basically DOA, it will be Tea Party types that stop it, then Democrats will celebrate "their" win and move on from healthcare. Well played insurance companies, well played.

The democrats will move on because there is nothing they can do when they have no power.

The ACA staying is a best case scenario for the next 4 years because there is no way the Republicans will come forward with something better.

It won't get better until the Democrats get a President + super majority.


That's why they are supposed to run on medicare for all, like Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare (except actually develop a plan). Fuck congressional Republicans, the house can get replaced every 2 years, let their constituents choose between Obamacare and Medicare for all, medicare for all wins in the polls hands down (it especially does a LOT better than Obamacare with Republicans).

Instead it looks like they are going full "RUSSIA!?!" and "Not Trump", which won't win them anything in 2018.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22288 Posts
March 07 2017 23:09 GMT
#141477
On March 08 2017 08:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/839207060667498496

My favorite one.


So Trumpcare is basically DOA, it will be Tea Party types that stop it, then Democrats will celebrate "their" win and move on from healthcare. Well played insurance companies, well played.

The democrats will move on because there is nothing they can do when they have no power.

The ACA staying is a best case scenario for the next 4 years because there is no way the Republicans will come forward with something better.

It won't get better until the Democrats get a President + super majority.


That's why they are supposed to run on medicare for all, like Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare (except actually develop a plan). Fuck congressional Republicans, the house can get replaced every 2 years, let their constituents choose between Obamacare and Medicare for all, medicare for all wins in the polls hands down (it especially does a LOT better than Obamacare with Republicans).

Instead it looks like they are going full "RUSSIA!?!" and "Not Trump", which won't win them anything in 2018.

Winning the house does nothing when no Democratic healthcare bill will make it through the Senate or the Presidency.

And you will have to work very hard to convince me that they could even win the House on a 'medicare for all' campaign, let alone the super majority they need to break the inevitable filibuster.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23897 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 23:22:51
March 07 2017 23:16 GMT
#141478
On March 08 2017 08:09 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 08:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/839207060667498496

My favorite one.


So Trumpcare is basically DOA, it will be Tea Party types that stop it, then Democrats will celebrate "their" win and move on from healthcare. Well played insurance companies, well played.

The democrats will move on because there is nothing they can do when they have no power.

The ACA staying is a best case scenario for the next 4 years because there is no way the Republicans will come forward with something better.

It won't get better until the Democrats get a President + super majority.


That's why they are supposed to run on medicare for all, like Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare (except actually develop a plan). Fuck congressional Republicans, the house can get replaced every 2 years, let their constituents choose between Obamacare and Medicare for all, medicare for all wins in the polls hands down (it especially does a LOT better than Obamacare with Republicans).

Instead it looks like they are going full "RUSSIA!?!" and "Not Trump", which won't win them anything in 2018.

Winning the house does nothing when no Democratic healthcare bill will make it through the Senate or the Presidency.

And you will have to work very hard to convince me that they could even win the House on a 'medicare for all' campaign, let alone the super majority they need to break the inevitable filibuster.


Winning the house is step 1. Winning any branch of government is rather fruitless without the other branches. But winning the house would give Democrats the power of the purse. It would win some seats in the senate in 2018 as well, then in 2020 it's a simple, you want guaranteed healthcare for you and your kids? Vote Democrat. You want to lose your health coverage and potentially go bankrupt from medical bills, you vote Republican.

Then Republicans have to fight not just the ACA (which they have got the country evenly split on) but instead they have to fight medicare (not for all) which has ridiculous approval ratings. Democrats would already be 10 points ahead on Medicare for all, they would have to work pretty hard to lose that fight.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2395 Posts
March 07 2017 23:17 GMT
#141479
On March 08 2017 07:35 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:21 warding wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:08 Plansix wrote:
I shovel this all back on congress being totally unwilling to regulate anything or give a shit.. These “smart” and everything else are consumer protection nightmares. And the tech industry gives literally zero shits and has not been forced to care at all. The BBC was doing a story about child pornography being shared on Facebook. They brought it to Facebook’s attention and Facebook reported the BBC for distributing child pornography. Uber is a living dumpster fire that has somehow managed to convince themselves that they drivers are their own businesses, but can't set their own prices or pick their passengers.

Like I can’t even.

You're reacting to a story on the government spying on people through smart devices by arguing that the government should regulate smart devices - presumably to protect against government hacking.

Other problems on government regulating on new technology:
- legislation takes time, technology moves fast;
- legislators are prone to lobbying, larger firms push for legislation that favors them;
- regulations are a tax - thus favor incumbents vs new entrants;
- legislators are lawyers, do not understand technology;
- we don't even yet know what the winning standards for IoT will be. Legislation passed now is likely to become obsolete fast;
- legislation is often poorly thought out, creates negative unintended consequences;
- regulation slows down innovation;
- regulations cost money to monitor and enforce;
- companies already have the incentive to protect customers from security/privacy breaches and the spread of child pornography. Not sure how extra regulation would change the already existing incentives.

The government needs a FISA warrant(or some due process) to spy on me and I don’t have a smart TV, so I’m pretty all set. I also do not give a fuck if someone can’t get VC investment because the government is regulating consumer products so random hackers can’t spy on people who just want to buy a TV. I don’t give a shit about anyone getting rich off of some dumb tech product like a smart trashcan or condom. And I could list an endless nubmer of things the tech industry does not understand, including ethics, liability and why long term planning is good.

And regulation is supposed to slow shit down and make people think about the long term prospects of what they are doing. Which is the opposite of the tech industry right now.

I see your attempt at trivializing the societal benefits of tech innovation but may I counter that 30k Americans die in road accidents every year and that advances in IoT and smart car technology could save these people? Off the top off my head, smart wearables for healthcare are another IoT vertical that could save many lives. Every extra day that passes because we need to 'slow down to think things through' results in more avoidable deaths. You've also ignored all my points on the likely ineffectiveness of legislating on this.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2017 23:18 GMT
#141480
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Prev 1 7072 7073 7074 7075 7076 10093 Next
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