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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
February 15 2017 00:41 GMT
#137461
On February 15 2017 09:05 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2017 09:00 Logo wrote:
I'm really not happy with the fact that almost every politician is splitting into a dichotomy of "Complicit in potential Russian meddling" and "Wanting to start a new cold war with Russia".

I want people to be held accountable for any Russia-related scandals, but I really don't like where a lot of people seem to want this all to head and would like to see Russia relationships improve over time not deteriorate (but improve without a free pass on bad stuff).

I would love for relations between the West and Russia to improve. But that's hard when Russia occupied and annexed part of another country, wages a covert war and repeatedly threatens our allies.

Its hard to improve relations while Putin is trying to define his legacy by rebuilding the USSR.

What, in your opinion, do you think Putin still needs to rebuild the USSR in all but name? I'm not knowledgeable on anything (still in high school, graduating this year and the "Modern World History" class covered everything from 1900 on except Russia after the revolution (got to Stalin and stopped at the beginning of the iron curtain), the two world wars (they said we knew enough about them), and this century besides the two American wars. I never got to understand what really happened between the USA and USSR, it why people were so scared.
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 00:44:46
February 15 2017 00:42 GMT
#137462
Trump does strike me as the kind of executive to get told he has to do paperwork explaining an action plan on how to censure someone and just say "fuck it, fire her" instead. Who knows if he's doing that to Conway, I'm doubtful till I see more.

I'm pretty sure he loathes what happened with alternative facts and how it became a meme-y joke making fun of his administration. Well, he would loathe that if he knew about it anyway.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 15 2017 00:42 GMT
#137463
it is partly genuine nationalism and partly for domestic control
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 15 2017 00:45 GMT
#137464
The White House kept Vice President Pence in the dark for weeks about the warning it had gotten about national security adviser Flynn from the Justice Department, Pence's press secretary, Marc Lotter, said Tuesday.

Pence did not find out until Feb. 9. Trump was first informed about the Justice Department's concerns regarding Flynn on Jan. 26, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said at Tuesday's daily press briefing.

Flynn's actions as President Donald Trump's short-lived national security adviser are under scrutiny after he resigned Monday night over phone calls he shared with Russia's ambassador to the United States in December — before Trump took office. Among the topics discussed included U.S. sanctions imposed by the Obama administration against Moscow for its alleged role in the 2016 presidential election.

The date the vice president knew is significant because it is when the administration became aware that the Washington Post was about to publish a heavily-sourced story that confirmed Flynn and the Russian ambassador discussed sanctions, despite public denials from Flynn and other incoming senior administration officials including Pence, then the vice president-elect.

Flynn's departure — so far the most high-profile of Trump's senior team — comes after the White House said he misled Pence and other senior administration officials about information he shared with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. Flynn had claimed that he had no substantial communication with Kislyak, which Pence later repeated to various news outlets.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 00:50:17
February 15 2017 00:46 GMT
#137465
LMAO. This takes that absolutely stupid debate moment when Trump flatly contradicted what Pence said about Russia at the VP debate, saying "we haven't talked about that," to a whole 'nother level. Guess it worked then, so Spicer thought it would work now.

Way to admit Trump knew about this for weeks, though, Spicer, that's some dumb shit to say.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 15 2017 00:50 GMT
#137466
compartmentalized administration, hide the mole trail
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 00:53:29
February 15 2017 00:52 GMT
#137467
On February 15 2017 09:41 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2017 09:05 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 15 2017 09:00 Logo wrote:
I'm really not happy with the fact that almost every politician is splitting into a dichotomy of "Complicit in potential Russian meddling" and "Wanting to start a new cold war with Russia".

I want people to be held accountable for any Russia-related scandals, but I really don't like where a lot of people seem to want this all to head and would like to see Russia relationships improve over time not deteriorate (but improve without a free pass on bad stuff).

I would love for relations between the West and Russia to improve. But that's hard when Russia occupied and annexed part of another country, wages a covert war and repeatedly threatens our allies.

Its hard to improve relations while Putin is trying to define his legacy by rebuilding the USSR.

What, in your opinion, do you think Putin still needs to rebuild the USSR in all but name? I'm not knowledgeable on anything (still in high school, graduating this year and the "Modern World History" class covered everything from 1900 on except Russia after the revolution (got to Stalin and stopped at the beginning of the iron curtain), the two world wars (they said we knew enough about them), and this century besides the two American wars. I never got to understand what really happened between the USA and USSR, it why people were so scared.


The last part is easy to explain. You had a country stockpiling a massive number of nuclear arms and threatening to use them Then another country racing to catch up in # of nuclear arms to stay as a power in the world then at one point positioning the arms so aggressively as to bring the world down to a single person preventing a very likely start to a nuclear war.
Logo
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 15 2017 00:53 GMT
#137468
Office of Government Ethics Director Walter M. Shaub Jr. is recommending an investigation and possible disciplinary action be taken against Kellyanne Conway, senior adviser to President Trump, for urging shoppers to buy fashion products sold by Trump's daughter Ivanka.

"Under the present circumstances, there is strong reason to believe that Ms. Conway has violated the Standards of Conduct and that disciplinary action is warranted," Shaub wrote in a letter to White House deputy counsel Stefan C. Passantino.

Conway appeared on Fox and Friends Thursday morning, where she addressed Nordstrom's recent decision to stop selling Ivanka Trump's line of products because of what it said were poor sales.

"Go buy Ivanka's stuff is what I would tell you. I hate shopping, and I'm gonna go get some on myself today," Conway said.

Ivanka Trump has a successful line of clothing, jewelry and shoes that is carried by numerous retailers.

But a boycott of Trump products got underway last year after the release of the infamous Access Hollywood video, in which Trump bragged about grabbing women by the genitals, and that appears to have hurt Ivanka's sales.

Her product line "was successful enough that these companies would have all kept carrying it on its own merits had this not happened," says retail consultant Jan Rogers Kniffen. "They weren't just carrying it because it was Ivanka Trump selling it. They were carrying it because it was actually selling to a customer."

In recent weeks, several large retailers have dropped all or part of the line, while others have chosen to de-emphasize it in their stores.

"They're all just stepping out of the way. They're saying, 'We don't want to be in a fight with the president, but we don't want to be in a fight with our customers either. We're getting out of the way,' " Kniffen says.

"She has tied herself to a very controversial figure that many women believe is trying to take them back to the 15th century. Anyone associated [with] Donald Trump is toxic," says Eric Schiffer, CEO of Reputation Management Consultants.

But the retailers' decision did not sit well with President Trump, who accused Nordstrom in a tweet last week of treating his daughter "so unfairly." Conway echoed the charge on TV.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer later said Conway had been "counseled" about her comments. Trump himself has not addressed Conway's remarks, and she told an interviewer later that day that she had the president's full support.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 01:04:37
February 15 2017 01:03 GMT
#137469
On February 15 2017 09:52 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2017 09:41 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
On February 15 2017 09:05 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 15 2017 09:00 Logo wrote:
I'm really not happy with the fact that almost every politician is splitting into a dichotomy of "Complicit in potential Russian meddling" and "Wanting to start a new cold war with Russia".

I want people to be held accountable for any Russia-related scandals, but I really don't like where a lot of people seem to want this all to head and would like to see Russia relationships improve over time not deteriorate (but improve without a free pass on bad stuff).

I would love for relations between the West and Russia to improve. But that's hard when Russia occupied and annexed part of another country, wages a covert war and repeatedly threatens our allies.

Its hard to improve relations while Putin is trying to define his legacy by rebuilding the USSR.

What, in your opinion, do you think Putin still needs to rebuild the USSR in all but name? I'm not knowledgeable on anything (still in high school, graduating this year and the "Modern World History" class covered everything from 1900 on except Russia after the revolution (got to Stalin and stopped at the beginning of the iron curtain), the two world wars (they said we knew enough about them), and this century besides the two American wars. I never got to understand what really happened between the USA and USSR, it why people were so scared.


The last part is easy to explain. You had a country stockpiling a massive number of nuclear arms and threatening to use them Then another country racing to catch up in # of nuclear arms to stay as a power in the world then at one point positioning the arms so aggressively as to bring the world down to a single person preventing a very likely start to a nuclear war.
fear of the ussr is different from fear of nuclear war.

it is a combination of propaganda against communism and real bad behavior and lots of suffering caused by communists.

communists of the period were of course selectively amnesic about all the nasty stuff their comrades did, except the crowd of liberal communists like irving howe/g a cohen etc. basically the people around dissentmagazine and the analytic marxists.


We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
February 15 2017 01:04 GMT
#137470
Something else to keep in mind...

On November 17 2016 03:33 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
An intelligence consulting firm founded by retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, Donald Trump’s top military adviser, was recently hired as a lobbyist by an obscure Dutch company with ties to Turkey’s government and its president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The revelation of that new lobbying contract, which has not been previously reported, raises several questions given that Trump is said to be considering Flynn, the former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), to take over as either Secretary of Defense or National Security Advisor.

It also raises questions about disclosure.

Flynn wrote an op-ed for The Hill on Tuesday, just before Trump’s stunning upset of Hillary Clinton, in which he heaped praise on Erdogan and called on the next president, whoever that would be, to accede his request to extradite the U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gülen back to Turkey.


The Daily Caller

Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 01:06:21
February 15 2017 01:05 GMT
#137471
Folks, it has only been 26 days. We are 1.6% of the way through his term.

Edit: Flynn, huge fan of dictators. Huge fan. Loves them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 15 2017 01:12 GMT
#137472
hey, doing consulting with millions in payoff with enemies of democracy is not necessarily bad. tad devine made a few million from yanukovich but he also helped bernie.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 01:19:49
February 15 2017 01:19 GMT
#137473
Keep in mind Flynn was receiving intel briefings with Trump before the election during the same time he was doing that lobbying.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 15 2017 01:25 GMT
#137474
On February 14 2017 23:48 oneofthem wrote:
btw leftists who defend trash like greenwald etc, look where your heroes are at. lol just lol


where's greenwald? at least post a link if you are going to post these cryptic "lol" posts
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
February 15 2017 01:33 GMT
#137475
Noticed that Fox's main headline on their website today was about leaks.

While most news outlets gave wall-to-wall coverage of the resignation of his national security adviser on Tuesday, President Donald Trump tried to draw attention to the "real story."

Why, Trump wondered on Twitter, "are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington?"

...

There were at least a couple of outlets, however, that gave ample coverage to what Trump described as the "real story." Fox News, in contrast to its cable news competitors, repeatedly framed Flynn's resignation as a betrayal of trust between the White House and intelligence community.

Trump's tweet came about 90 minutes after an interview on "Fox & Friends" with conservative pundit Laura Ingraham, a Trump booster who was floated as a possible White House press secretary, about what she described as "death by a thousand leaks."


CNN
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
February 15 2017 01:44 GMT
#137476
On February 15 2017 06:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2017 06:20 LegalLord wrote:
U.S. President Donald Trump made it clear he expects Russia to return Crimea to Ukraine and reduce violence in Ukraine, White House spokesman Sean Spicer said on Tuesday.

"President Trump has made it very clear that he expects the Russian government to de-escalate violence in the Ukraine and return Crimea," Spicer said at a daily news briefing. "At the same time, he fully expects to and wants to get along with Russia."

Source

So, as I was saying a few days ago: no detente with Russia is going to happen. It was never a likelihood.

No, its Spicer in damage control mode because the National Security Advisor just had to step down over illegal actions with Russia

Also lets see how Trump responds to Russia breaking that Cruise missile agreement held up since the Cold war.
Actions > words.



Technically they were violating it while Obama was president too. It's just moved beyond it's "testing phase" designation.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
February 15 2017 01:55 GMT
#137477
When will the lock him up chants begin for Trump?
Never Knows Best.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 15 2017 01:56 GMT
#137478
On February 15 2017 10:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2017 06:25 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 15 2017 06:20 LegalLord wrote:
U.S. President Donald Trump made it clear he expects Russia to return Crimea to Ukraine and reduce violence in Ukraine, White House spokesman Sean Spicer said on Tuesday.

"President Trump has made it very clear that he expects the Russian government to de-escalate violence in the Ukraine and return Crimea," Spicer said at a daily news briefing. "At the same time, he fully expects to and wants to get along with Russia."

Source

So, as I was saying a few days ago: no detente with Russia is going to happen. It was never a likelihood.

No, its Spicer in damage control mode because the National Security Advisor just had to step down over illegal actions with Russia

Also lets see how Trump responds to Russia breaking that Cruise missile agreement held up since the Cold war.
Actions > words.



Technically they were violating it while Obama was president too. It's just moved beyond it's "testing phase" designation.

the story came out because of observed movement.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-15 02:11:53
February 15 2017 02:06 GMT
#137479
On February 15 2017 10:56 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2017 10:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 15 2017 06:25 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 15 2017 06:20 LegalLord wrote:
U.S. President Donald Trump made it clear he expects Russia to return Crimea to Ukraine and reduce violence in Ukraine, White House spokesman Sean Spicer said on Tuesday.

"President Trump has made it very clear that he expects the Russian government to de-escalate violence in the Ukraine and return Crimea," Spicer said at a daily news briefing. "At the same time, he fully expects to and wants to get along with Russia."

Source

So, as I was saying a few days ago: no detente with Russia is going to happen. It was never a likelihood.

No, its Spicer in damage control mode because the National Security Advisor just had to step down over illegal actions with Russia

Also lets see how Trump responds to Russia breaking that Cruise missile agreement held up since the Cold war.
Actions > words.



Technically they were violating it while Obama was president too. It's just moved beyond it's "testing phase" designation.

the story came out because of observed movement.


And?
On February 15 2017 10:25 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2017 23:48 oneofthem wrote:
btw leftists who defend trash like greenwald etc, look where your heroes are at. lol just lol


where's greenwald? at least post a link if you are going to post these cryptic "lol" posts


My guess is that he's pointing out that the same people raging about leaks about Clinton love these illegal leaks. If I was going to rip someone on this it would be wikileaks.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
February 15 2017 02:11 GMT
#137480
On February 15 2017 09:00 Logo wrote:
I'm really not happy with the fact that almost every politician is splitting into a dichotomy of "Complicit in potential Russian meddling" and "Wanting to start a new cold war with Russia".

I want people to be held accountable for any Russia-related scandals, but I really don't like where a lot of people seem to want this all to head and would like to see Russia relationships improve over time not deteriorate (but improve without a free pass on bad stuff).

The real secret is that none of this is actually about Russia. Whatever problems people do or don't have with Russia and Russian foreign policy, this simply isn't about that. And it isn't even about that Russia leaked emails to Wikileaks. It's about Trump and ways to bring him down.

That's about where we are in terms of partisanship.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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