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On November 10 2016 03:18 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:10 hunts wrote:
I'm just disappointed in my country. I guess we'll have to put up with this until the baby boomers die off or hopefully we pave over rural america and drag those rednecks into the 21st century kicking and screaming. I just can't believe this many people would vote against their self interests and for a potential dictator. The fun thing is, in 30 years your children will be in the some kind of forum hoping for the millenials finally to die off and make place for the future and prosperity. Grow up.
As long as once the baby boomers kick the bucket we get to progress from this state and actually join the rest of the world in the 21st century, and our kids 30 years from now want to be more progressed and this is the last time we have anything like trump anywhere near office, I'll be happy.
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On November 10 2016 03:09 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:06 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 10 2016 03:04 TheTenthDoc wrote:On November 10 2016 03:02 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 10 2016 03:01 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 02:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Trump already backed off the building of a Wall with Mexico including backing off getting Mexico to pay for it. I think he talked it down for the sake of the election, but his supporters are going to hold him to building it. He's already going to be walking back a lot of other things ("LOCK HER UP!!!!"), so he better build the wall. Yeah this is a really interesting time in American politics. Either he walks back a lot of things he said he would do, or his Presidency will careen from one crisis to another. Why not both? (seriously, it will probably be both) It will be interesting to see what he does walk back when/if he does. Is it the things he was forced to say by the GOP or his own gut feelings and gibberish policies. Actually, you are probably correct. But honestly, he will alienate his base in about 10 days if he doesn't try to jail her and build the wall. Those were the highlights of what he said at his rallies. And I attended one. I think you are giving way way too much credit to the ability of Trump's base to continue caring after 2 months of no real news. Without the daily flood of media coverage, big rallies, and Clinton scandals you're probably going to see them drift apart. The party is over, there's nothing to be constantly angry about anymore.
I think you are underestimating them. Go to any given Dunkin's Donuts in a red area and sit down and in the morning and watch the white working class come in and sit down and eat while talking politics. It happens every day, of every year. I've seen that for years, watch the plumbers, factory workers and truck drivers come in and talk. And they sound just like Donald Trump with how they comment on the women that come in, talk about immigrants and minorities, and blame welfare and bad trade deals for their problems. I've been hearing that since I was 16 years old, when my friend in high school used to work there.
They aren't angry for the sake of being angry. They are angry they don't have the opportunity their fathers had in manufacturing, to make a good living without getting a degree. And you'll never hear them stop talking about how the country is dying.
And Trump said he would bring back manufacturing jobs and lift them up. Another promise that has to be held, or they'll never stop talking about how Trump is just another politician who failed them, they will blame him like they turned on Bush.
Politics is life for them. They don't want government handouts, but they want the government to deliver them jobs.
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On November 10 2016 03:15 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:12 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On November 10 2016 03:08 LegalLord wrote:
If anyone is wondering where I stand, as a Hillary voter who pulled no punches in criticizing her faults, I suppose all I can give is the "Putin response" to this sort of thing: I'm ready to work with either candidate being president, I like and dislike some things from both sides, and I just hope that what we have will be for the best.
At this point no one knows what will happen. The country took a riskier choice than I was prepared to make myself, but I'll live with it and hope for the best. I'm more worried about his staffers than Trump himself. Old frozen horrors like Giuliani, Bannon and Gingrich that should have remained in the closet forever. Be thankful for the fact that the US government was designed with a remarkable amount of resilience to this sort of thing. We will endure and at this point our best chance is to look towards real, substantial change in 2020 that will be more than Hillary Clinton. Play the hand you are dealt, even if it's not what you wanted, and you might find some substantial silver linings there.
I agree and think the guy's more of a carpet seller than anything ( didn't he serially marry admittedly non-brown immigrants in the first place ? ). The two main issues the free world faces in the next 20 years - AI-driven automation and climate change - were not even tackled in the debates though. The former was never gonna be, let's be real, but the latter really hurts
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On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses).
I would also like to understand how rural America votes for a billionaire with friends such as Mnuchin and Icahn, and doesn't see the irony.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
that she didn't talk about climate change was her recognizing the importance of the rust belt vote. it just wasn't enough.
the regular army (media) got surrounded by the guerrillas (internet), and the regular army was in a bubble all this time.
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On November 10 2016 02:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +Plansix was just temp banned for 90 days by Sn0_Man.
That account was created on 2011-04-03 05:22:58 and had 14501 posts.
Reason: By Request
For those wondering what happened to P6. This is going to be a very quiet thread once all the election heat dies down, with both kwark and p6 banned. With all of kwizach's talk about a banbet, I'm surprised he's still here. Fiwifaki must be kicking himself for squeeming out of that money bet, though.
plansix is the quintessential "I have no idea if i voted correctly, but at least he's gone"
Why anyone has to be as unpleasant as he is, is beyond me.
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On November 10 2016 03:23 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses). I would also like to understand how rural America votes for a billionaire with friends such as Mnuchin and Icahn, and doesn't see the irony.
He spoke to the issues they wanted addressed in a way no one else did and for that they were willing to look past everything else.
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Yeah, the fact that we're talking about this means that they voted for the right person. Whoo democracy.
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On November 10 2016 03:23 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses). I would also like to understand how rural America votes for a billionaire with friends such as Mnuchin and Icahn, and doesn't see the irony.
It is very ironic. But in the end, they are voting for someone who says he wants to fight the political machine.
And all of his non-politically correct talk and actions was evidence that he wasn't part of the political machine for working class, as he was relentlessly assaulted by the media.
On November 10 2016 03:26 Blisse wrote:
Yeah, the fact that we're talking about this means that they voted for the right person. Whoo democracy.
Remember that Adolf Hitler and Iran's current government won fair elections too. Democracy has serious flaws.
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On November 10 2016 03:20 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:16 Acrofales wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. That was an excellent read, and I think it is probably very true. It's also what xDaunt has been trying to say, albeit without being very clear about it. I also really liked the companion piece, which addresses another one of the themes we have talked about in the thread: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-helpful-answers-to-societys-most-uncomfortable-questions/In particular:
Now, we circle back to the idea I introduced at the start -- you, hypothetical white male reader, didn't own slaves or systematically shut black people out of the economy for 150 years after. But, you are part of a greater whole, and, thus, you reaped some of the benefits. In theory, we should all have learned this in history class -- not just that slavery happened, but that we were all born at a certain level because we were boosted there by a complicated set of systems developed to reserve the best jobs, schools, neighborhoods, and social systems for people who look like us.
If they try to teach this in the classroom, critics will scream that they're making white kids "feel guilty for being white." But, there's that confusion again -- telling those kids they're guilty (that is, "to blame") for being white would be wrong. Telling those kids that, as white people, they are responsible for fixing inequality is just a statement of fact. The entire concept of civilization is that things are supposed to always be getting better -- each link in the chain is hopefully a little smarter, richer, and healthier than the one before. That's why the average American today dies at about 79, but the average ancient Roman died in their late 40s (even excluding those who died in childhood). But, improving means fixing things that are broken. That is, things that other people broke.
Although that quote unarguably works better in the context of the entire piece, which is well worth reading. In particular for the xDaunts and ggtemplars of the thread. The problem with that small passage (I've not read the whole piece) is that it assumes that people in general believe that inequality is bad or unfair. If that was true conservative politics would not exist.
Yeah, the rest of the article puts that in context. But if you go all Ayn Rand on social responsibility, then you will reject some of the premises of the article.
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I think that the Donald likes to be in the spotlight,so i expect him to remain in the spotlight. I think he also cares more about his own image then about what would be good policy so i expect him at least at the start of his presidency to make policy decisions that are popular with the people but not neccesarely the best for the greater good.
if I had to compare him to previous presidents then he comes most close to Ronald Reagan. Not so much in policy but there are a few similarities. Reagan was seen as a bad president in his time,at least by the people outside of the usa. Only later,after the collapse of the ussr, Reagan gained respect and became valued as a very succesful president,not so much outside the usa but at least by a part of the people inside the usa. Trump has few things similar,reagan brought back the American dream and optimism,not so much by his policys but just by his charisma. The people are longing for something similar now, a confirmation that the American dream is still alive and I think trump could give people in the middle class the hope that things will chance and help people get the motivation that they need. In the end it has to be backed up by a true economic recovery of the middle class,but that is pretty much outsides trump control. I personally think globalization has crossed the point of no return and that there is no way back, trump and the middle class are fighting a lost battle but at least they can feel good about this victory. I think trumps presidency will be reasonable succesfull and very entertaining.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On November 10 2016 03:16 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. This reminds me a lot of what's happening in China and the previous sentiment and the lessening divide there. We should look to how they've been helping their rural areas prosper. We (the left) should also be careful to watch our language, and find a way to stop subliminally treating rural America as inferior and such.
personally, never realized that there was such a large drift between the two till this election cycle.
On November 10 2016 03:16 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. #3 is a big part of why reduction in cost of living of cities, liveability and public transport etc should have been highlighted in her platform. it's not like we don't know these are the problems preventing rural america from coming back. it just got drowned out by the noise and general poll tested platitudes she was getting fed with.
ya, it was her race to lose imo but I guess I was wrong.
On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses).
personally, I don't think he's going to be able to do much to help the rural areas. Maybe some sort of funding to make their lives a bit better but there is no way that he can help bring back jobs (factories reopening etc...) considering the cost of labor and how its cheaper overseas.
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On November 10 2016 03:23 oneofthem wrote:
that she didn't talk about climate change was her recognizing the importance of the rust belt vote. it just wasn't enough.
the regular army (media) got surrounded by the guerrillas (internet), and the regular army was in a bubble all this time.
Turnout arbitrage ? I need to look into it. The most complex forecasting models ( Drew Linzer etc ) weren't methodologically wrong but had garbage in as an input.
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On November 10 2016 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 02:43 Acrofales wrote:Plansix was just temp banned for 90 days by Sn0_Man.
That account was created on 2011-04-03 05:22:58 and had 14501 posts.
Reason: By Request
For those wondering what happened to P6. This is going to be a very quiet thread once all the election heat dies down, with both kwark and p6 banned. With all of kwizach's talk about a banbet, I'm surprised he's still here. Fiwifaki must be kicking himself for squeeming out of that money bet, though. plansix is the quintessential "I have no idea if i voted correctly, but at least he's gone" Why anyone has to be as unpleasant as he is, is beyond me.
Plansix took a banbet?
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TLADT24920 Posts
On November 10 2016 03:27 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote:On November 10 2016 02:43 Acrofales wrote:Plansix was just temp banned for 90 days by Sn0_Man.
That account was created on 2011-04-03 05:22:58 and had 14501 posts.
Reason: By Request
For those wondering what happened to P6. This is going to be a very quiet thread once all the election heat dies down, with both kwark and p6 banned. With all of kwizach's talk about a banbet, I'm surprised he's still here. Fiwifaki must be kicking himself for squeeming out of that money bet, though. plansix is the quintessential "I have no idea if i voted correctly, but at least he's gone" Why anyone has to be as unpleasant as he is, is beyond me. Plansix took a banbet?
looks like he asked for it himself, maybe to avoid discussing politics and cool down after the defeat?
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On November 10 2016 03:27 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote:On November 10 2016 02:43 Acrofales wrote:Plansix was just temp banned for 90 days by Sn0_Man.
That account was created on 2011-04-03 05:22:58 and had 14501 posts.
Reason: By Request
For those wondering what happened to P6. This is going to be a very quiet thread once all the election heat dies down, with both kwark and p6 banned. With all of kwizach's talk about a banbet, I'm surprised he's still here. Fiwifaki must be kicking himself for squeeming out of that money bet, though. plansix is the quintessential "I have no idea if i voted correctly, but at least he's gone" Why anyone has to be as unpleasant as he is, is beyond me. Plansix took a banbet?
No, he's just been in insanely condescending shitposter for close to a year now with no reprecussions.
How could he show his face here again for a while after that?
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 10 2016 03:25 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:23 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses). I would also like to understand how rural America votes for a billionaire with friends such as Mnuchin and Icahn, and doesn't see the irony. He spoke to the issues they wanted addressed in a way no one else did and for that they were willing to look past everything else.
Yeah, it always astonishes me how the GOP not only gets away with talking to working class Americans whilst being on the board of Chevron/Halliburton at the same time, but also thrives from it. You have to admire these marketing skills.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 10 2016 03:23 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses). I would also like to understand how rural America votes for a billionaire with friends such as Mnuchin and Icahn, and doesn't see the irony.
He wasn't part of the "establishment" in Washington, and so passed off his wealth as proof he wouldn't be paid off or influenced by lobbyists in Washington. Rural America doesn't hate the rich, more the social and cultural associations with having money + urban attitudes.
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On November 10 2016 03:30 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:27 Reaps wrote:On November 10 2016 03:24 VayneAuthority wrote:On November 10 2016 02:43 Acrofales wrote:Plansix was just temp banned for 90 days by Sn0_Man.
That account was created on 2011-04-03 05:22:58 and had 14501 posts.
Reason: By Request
For those wondering what happened to P6. This is going to be a very quiet thread once all the election heat dies down, with both kwark and p6 banned. With all of kwizach's talk about a banbet, I'm surprised he's still here. Fiwifaki must be kicking himself for squeeming out of that money bet, though. plansix is the quintessential "I have no idea if i voted correctly, but at least he's gone" Why anyone has to be as unpleasant as he is, is beyond me. Plansix took a banbet? No, he's just been in insanely condescending shitposter for close to a year now with no reprecussions. How could he show his face here again for a while after that?
Well i know that :D was just curious if it was due to a banbet or something else.
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On November 10 2016 03:30 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:25 LegalLord wrote:On November 10 2016 03:23 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On November 10 2016 03:20 TheYango wrote:On November 10 2016 03:07 BigFan wrote:On November 10 2016 02:44 Jormundr wrote:Also this is probably the most realistic explanation of this election I've seen so far. Point #3 hits very close to home. extremely well written article. Recommend everyone to read it. So the question going forward is--if a Trump presidency is an expression of rural America's discontent, then how will a Trump presidency fix that discontent? Rural America has been left behind by the rest of the country. But this is not an easy problem to solve, and certainly not one that's solvable by even the best possible president. Were things better for them in the 50s and 60s? Probably. But we can't go back to the 50s and 60s. The rest of the world isn't going to shift back in time for us. What we have to be doing is coping with how technology and the rest of the world are changing America, and that unfortunately also means a huge shift in America's economy toward urban centers. No amount of protectionist trade policy is going to be able to reverse that shift. I understand that rural America is discontent with the way things are in 2016, but it's not clear to me where the way forward is, especially with their deeply-ingrained aversion toward far-left progressive welfare reform. Maybe someone with a better understanding of these things has a clearer understanding of where we go from here and can explain it to me (preferably with the smallest possible amount of condescension or right-wing rose-tinted glasses). I would also like to understand how rural America votes for a billionaire with friends such as Mnuchin and Icahn, and doesn't see the irony. He spoke to the issues they wanted addressed in a way no one else did and for that they were willing to look past everything else. Yeah, it always astonishes me how the GOP not only gets away with talking to working class Americans whilst being on the board of Chevron/Halliburton at the same time, but also thrives from it. You have to admire these marketing skills.
It backfired when they found someone who would pander to those people but not tow the Republican establishment line on the issues they really cared about.
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EPT
