|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On November 09 2016 06:26 WhiteDog wrote:What the hell is this oneof. Is it a real project ? Forced ID microchips implant ? Reading through a blog, I've learned that somehow the obamacare makes "execution by guillotine legal". lol And lol Kwark. You should have told her the numbers were arabic, you'd be back in the UK by now. Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:21 farvacola wrote:On November 09 2016 06:18 mahrgell wrote:On November 09 2016 06:11 WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand this US thinggy about ID and voting. In any other developped country, you just can't vote without an ID, but I've heard in the US there are many people that just don't have any kind of ID ? I kinda like the idea in a sense, altho I don't entirely understands it. Many other countries also don't have such weird voting registration rules, because they actually know their own people. The entire voting process seems to be centuries old and unchanged, ignoring any modern realities. And there seems to be no political will to ever change that. Our process may be old fashioned in many ways, but this notion that it is somehow ignorant of our people or whatever it is you're implying is silly. Our decentralized form of government and its related processes are a reflection of what it means to be American in more ways than one. Yeah I kinda like the spirit of it all, but it seems really weird in practice.
Oh it's absolutely weird and honestly nonsensical. It's one of those damnable things about stability. Old shit that should be shedded tends to stick around.
The electoral college is another one that people just do not understand the need to continue.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 09 2016 06:27 riotjune wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 05:56 oneofthem wrote:
the hillary/kaine ticket is on top of three parties in new york.
there's the dems, the working families party and the women's equality party.
probably a good idea to vote for the second one. Umm why? Does voting for a different party with the same candidates do anything? I thought it was just them being thorough and really doesn't make a difference since you're voting for the same people anyway.
it's a way of supporting the working families party without lessening the hillary vote.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 09 2016 06:26 WhiteDog wrote:What the hell is this oneof. Is it a real project ? Forced ID microchips implant ? Reading through a blog, I've learned that somehow the obamacare makes "execution by guillotine legal". lol And lol Kwark. You should have told her the numbers were arabic, you'd be back in the UK by now. Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:21 farvacola wrote:On November 09 2016 06:18 mahrgell wrote:On November 09 2016 06:11 WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand this US thinggy about ID and voting. In any other developped country, you just can't vote without an ID, but I've heard in the US there are many people that just don't have any kind of ID ? I kinda like the idea in a sense, altho I don't entirely understands it. Many other countries also don't have such weird voting registration rules, because they actually know their own people. The entire voting process seems to be centuries old and unchanged, ignoring any modern realities. And there seems to be no political will to ever change that. Our process may be old fashioned in many ways, but this notion that it is somehow ignorant of our people or whatever it is you're implying is silly. Our decentralized form of government and its related processes are a reflection of what it means to be American in more ways than one. Yeah I kinda like the spirit of it all, but it seems really weird in practice.
it's real and it helps explain guys like ben carson.
the idea of a national id card has been floated at various times, sometimes attached to immigration reform or an emergency response system (FEMA). it's been a favorite of the anti-government extreme right for a while
serious though, i am opposed to a national id because it would make immigration enforcement easier.
|
United States42009 Posts
|
On November 09 2016 06:28 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 09 2016 06:18 KwarK wrote:On November 09 2016 06:16 WhiteDog wrote:
Really ? You don't have ID card ? Just driver's license. And if you want an idea of the process involved in getting one, well, here's my experience from two years ago. On July 27 2016 03:45 KwarK wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. When I first tried to get a state ID in the US I was told that I needed to get my old ID translated. I asked her which language she would like my British driver's license translated into and she said English. I explained that the language that we use in England is English and that if she tried I'm sure that she could read the words. She indicated the ones that she was struggling with and I explained to her that those were, in fact, numbers. She told me I had to get them translated. She was not able to indicate which language she wanted the numbers translated into. I offered to handle the translation myself but was declined. I was subsequently just able to pay a private company to get me a drivers license because the DMV wouldn't do it after two visits. The system doesn't work the way it should and while money acts a gatekeeper to getting things like the voter IDs they will remain problematic. Did you pause and reconsider whether you really wanted to wear the placard of "American citizen"? I mean most of us are born this way, you chose to join this circus. It'd be an amazing country if there weren't so many Americans in it. I think we should just transplant the native population with British expats.
Pretty sure that's what got us in this mess 
I'm seeing long lines and no lines, I'm really curious how turnout is going to look, both gross number and the demographic/party breakdown.
EDIT:
Some of us have very good reason too
|
On November 09 2016 06:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:16 WhiteDog wrote:
Really ? You don't have ID card dedicated for it ? Each state handles IDs differently. But if you don’t drive, there is no reason to get one in the US. We could try to create a national ID card, but it would never get through congress. To many states would see it as an expansion of federal powers, which is not a completely invalid argument.
There's numerous reasons to have I.D. for example: cops may require that you produce one. confirming reservations. buying alcohol or tobacco. flying. im sure others I can't think of.
|
It is one of the core features of our culture. That and slavery define the foundation of our nation and its largest internal conflict.
|
On November 09 2016 06:21 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:18 mahrgell wrote:On November 09 2016 06:11 WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand this US thinggy about ID and voting. In any other developped country, you just can't vote without an ID, but I've heard in the US there are many people that just don't have any kind of ID ? I kinda like the idea in a sense, altho I don't entirely understands it. Many other countries also don't have such weird voting registration rules, because they actually know their own people. The entire voting process seems to be centuries old and unchanged, ignoring any modern realities. And there seems to be no political will to ever change that. Our process may be old fashioned in many ways, but this notion that it is somehow ignorant of our people or whatever it is you're implying is silly. Our decentralized form of government and its related processes are a reflection of what it means to be American in more ways than one.
The US: its citizens get teary-eyed* when minorities get disenfranchized by local state governments and start singing the national anthem when voting uses 200 year old methods.
*the happy, nostalgic kind, I should add
|
It's a funny thing for a European. In France you are absolutely required to have an ID card or a passport, and you are supposed to carry it at all time (you don't).
Further down the line, in Russia if you don't have your passport and the police stops you, you are in a deep, deep, dark stinky shit (that being said the police in Russia exists mainly to make your life a hell, so that's a good excuse. for them).
|
And many of your nations are the size of one of our states in landmass and population. Sometimes in GDP too. Though we normally need to block our states to match up with some of your heavy hitters.
It is hard to remember, but the US as a whole is as large and diverse as all of the EU. Though I think as a whole you have better food.
|
On November 09 2016 06:26 WhiteDog wrote:What the hell is this oneof. Is it a real project ? Forced ID microchips implant ? Reading through a blog, I've learned that somehow the obamacare makes "execution by guillotine legal". lol And lol Kwark. You should have told her the numbers were arabic, you'd be back in the UK by now. Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:21 farvacola wrote:On November 09 2016 06:18 mahrgell wrote:On November 09 2016 06:11 WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand this US thinggy about ID and voting. In any other developped country, you just can't vote without an ID, but I've heard in the US there are many people that just don't have any kind of ID ? I kinda like the idea in a sense, altho I don't entirely understands it. Many other countries also don't have such weird voting registration rules, because they actually know their own people. The entire voting process seems to be centuries old and unchanged, ignoring any modern realities. And there seems to be no political will to ever change that. Our process may be old fashioned in many ways, but this notion that it is somehow ignorant of our people or whatever it is you're implying is silly. Our decentralized form of government and its related processes are a reflection of what it means to be American in more ways than one. Yeah I kinda like the spirit of it all, but it seems really weird in practice.
Here's something you may find interesting: among the million other ways in which the American legal system differs from the French, we have shitloads of judicial law and litigation surrounding the legal relationship between the state and federal governments, and the controversy surrounding the 10th and 11th Amendments as applied to using federal courts to hold state governments liable for various acts outside the slam dunk ones authorized explicitly by Congress continues to this very day. It's worth mentioning that the 11th Amendment was only added to the Constitution after state governments got really pissy having seen Georgia get forced by a federal court into honoring its contractual debts incurred during the Revolutionary War.
All in all, I think a lot of what gets lost in translation when it comes to Europeans trying to understand, to put it bluntly, why some of our shit is so broken can be attributed to dynamics like the above state/federal balance of influence and how unsettled it is to this very day. For better or for worse, and feel free to disagree with this admittedly attenuated view, it seems like the scope of Europe's current EU/national sovereignty controversy is one of a very different character when compared with what the US faces, and I think this accounts for a lot of why our perspectives can differ on what appear to be fundamental tenets of a working government system.
On November 09 2016 06:36 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 06:21 farvacola wrote:On November 09 2016 06:18 mahrgell wrote:On November 09 2016 06:11 WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand this US thinggy about ID and voting. In any other developped country, you just can't vote without an ID, but I've heard in the US there are many people that just don't have any kind of ID ? I kinda like the idea in a sense, altho I don't entirely understands it. Many other countries also don't have such weird voting registration rules, because they actually know their own people. The entire voting process seems to be centuries old and unchanged, ignoring any modern realities. And there seems to be no political will to ever change that. Our process may be old fashioned in many ways, but this notion that it is somehow ignorant of our people or whatever it is you're implying is silly. Our decentralized form of government and its related processes are a reflection of what it means to be American in more ways than one. The US: its citizens get teary-eyed* when minorities get disenfranchized by local state governments and start singing the national anthem when voting uses 200 year old methods. *the happy, nostalgic kind, I should add
I actually have a theory that political disinformation on the part of the general population has led to a massive misplacement of blame when it comes to our government dysfunction. The Federal Government is what gets the spotlight most of the time and is what appears most visible, but in reality, the majority of special interest influence capture and actual mechanics of government malfunction occur at the state and local levels.
|
My Prediction : Trump win
![[image loading]](http://www.270towin.com/presidential_map_new/maps/RNQAk.png)
|
I mean that map is a pipe dream but at least I know the dream scenario.
User was warned for this post
|
United States42009 Posts
On November 09 2016 06:45 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:My Prediction : Trump win
![[image loading]](http://www.270towin.com/presidential_map_new/maps/182p3.png)
|
The only change I would make from Kwark's map is I do not think she will win NC. The rest of those states seem pretty set in stone though.
|
I like KwarK's a lot better, I bet 100 with a friend on Clinton getting at least over 300
|
On November 09 2016 06:45 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:My Prediction : Trump win
Strange, I thought you would predict Clinton was gonna win.
In all seriousness, that's wishful thinking.
|
On November 09 2016 06:39 Plansix wrote:
And many of your nations are the size of one of our states in landmass and population. Sometimes in GDP too. Though we normally need to block our states to match up with some of your heavy hitters.
It is hard to remember, but the US as a whole is as large and diverse as all of the EU. Though I think as a whole you have better food.
I know Americans like to make that statement but it makes about as much sense as saying "China is as large and diverse as all of NATO!"
There is a very large rural/urban cultural divide in the US, and also in every other urbanized country. The US political system has issues with power centralization... and so does Bosnia-Hercikovina.
|
On November 09 2016 06:51 farvacola wrote:I like KwarK's a lot better, I bet 100 with a friend on Clinton getting at least over 300
I'm not a big fan of that bet. I don't see either candidate cracking 300. This is going to be close.
|
It's funny, I used to think that the American political system was complete bullshit - well and I still think it is pretty stupid, since you can only vote between conservatives and ultraconservatives, but I guess that's a cultural issue -, but with what's going on in Austria, France, Germany, I kind of start to understand why the US has been a democracy forever, while in Europe our political systems keep on collapsing over and over again. Even in case of a maniac like Trump winning, the land would still survive - and that won't even happen to begin with, although Hillary really tried.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
