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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 03 2016 15:29 GMT
#117801
btw igne your choice of the gun analogy is particularly egregious. your actual complaint is not the kind of physical coercion a gun to the head represents. it's about limited choice and process concerns. why not make that argument, after it is clear that disagreement/contention over 'coercion' exists?

it's just not very productive.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43220 Posts
November 03 2016 15:29 GMT
#117802
On November 04 2016 00:24 biology]major wrote:
What is the purpose of arguing about this shit? I could easily argue that there is no coercion at all, even if there is a gun to your head. Or you could argue in the other extreme, by saying everything is coercion. Use your common sense folks.

We're arguing because everyone but Igne is on team "use your common sense folks" and Igne is insisting that either all consequences are coercive or none are.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 03 2016 15:29 GMT
#117803
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
November 03 2016 15:40 GMT
#117804
On November 04 2016 00:29 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2016 00:24 biology]major wrote:
What is the purpose of arguing about this shit? I could easily argue that there is no coercion at all, even if there is a gun to your head. Or you could argue in the other extreme, by saying everything is coercion. Use your common sense folks.

We're arguing because everyone but Igne is on team "use your common sense folks" and Igne is insisting that either all consequences are coercive or none are.


Actually everyone else is just a nitwit walking in an intellectual ditch because of the dictionary definition of coercion.. I dont even know why you guys bothered to entertain that absurd line of reasoning but credit to you. I gave up pretty quick.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 03 2016 15:42 GMT
#117805
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/03/meet-donald-trump-s-top-fbi-fanboy.html

Two days before FBI director James Comey rocked the world last week, Rudy Giuliani was on Fox, where he volunteered, un-prodded by any question: “I think he’s [Donald Trump] got a surprise or two that you’re going to hear about in the next few days. I mean, I’m talking about some pretty big surprises.”

Pressed for specifics, he said: “We’ve got a couple of things up our sleeve that should turn this thing around.”
The man who now leads “lock-her-up” chants at Trump rallies spent decades of his life as a federal prosecutor and then mayor working closely with the FBI, and especially its New York office. One of Giuliani’s security firms employed a former head of the New York FBI office, and other alumni of it. It was agents of that office, probing Anthony Weiner’s alleged sexting of a minor, who pressed Comey to authorize the review of possible Hillary Clinton-related emails on a Weiner device that led to the explosive letter the director wrote Congress.

Hours after Comey’s letter about the renewed probe was leaked on Friday, Giuliani went on a radio show and attributed the director’s surprise action to “the pressure of a group of FBI agents who don’t look at it politically.”
“The other rumor that I get is that there’s a kind of revolution going on inside the FBI about the original conclusion [not to charge Clinton] being completely unjustified and almost a slap in the face to the FBI’s integrity,” said Giuliani. “I know that from former agents. I know that even from a few active agents.”
Along with Giuliani’s other connections to New York FBI agents, his former law firm, then called Bracewell Giuliani, has long been general counsel to the FBI Agents Association (FBIAA), which represents 13,000 former and current agents. The group, born in the New York office in the early ’80s, was headed until Monday by Rey Tariche, an agent still working in that office. Tariche’s resignation letter from the bureau mentioned the Clinton probe, noting that “we find our work—our integrity questioned” because of it, adding “we will not be used for political gains.”

When the FBIAA threw its first G-Man Honors Gala in 2014 in Washington, Giuliani was the keynote speaker and was given a distinguished service award named after him. Giuliani left Bracewell this January and joined Greenberg Traurig, the only other law firm listed as a sponsor of the FBIAA gala. He spoke again at the 2015 gala. The Bracewell firm also acts as the association’s Washington lobbyist and the FBIAA endorsed Republican Congressman Mike Rodgers, rather than Comey, for the FBI post in 2013. Giuliani did not return a Daily Beast message left with his assistant.

Back in August, during a contentious CNN interview about Comey’s July announcement clearing Hillary Clinton of criminal charges, Giuliani advertised his illicit FBI sources, who circumvented bureau guidelines to discuss a case with a public partisan. “The decision perplexes me. It perplexes Jim Kallstrom, who worked for him. It perplexes numerous FBI agents who talk to me all the time. And it embarrasses some FBI agents.”


It looks like members of the FBI might have been colluding with Trump surrogates to cook up an October surprise.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18115 Posts
November 03 2016 15:44 GMT
#117806
Can we agree to not post daily beast articles anymore? They seem universally terrible. Like... breitbart levels of terrible.
Little-Chimp
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada948 Posts
November 03 2016 15:47 GMT
#117807
Daily beast is literal breitbart tier garbage
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 03 2016 15:48 GMT
#117808
On November 04 2016 00:44 Acrofales wrote:
Can we agree to not post daily beast articles anymore? They seem universally terrible. Like... breitbart levels of terrible.

Right after all Wikileaks links are also no longer allowed due to being garbage.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 03 2016 15:52 GMT
#117809
On November 04 2016 00:44 Acrofales wrote:
Can we agree to not post daily beast articles anymore? They seem universally terrible. Like... breitbart levels of terrible.


That was a pretty clear cut article premised on Giuliani's own words.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43220 Posts
November 03 2016 15:56 GMT
#117810
On November 04 2016 00:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2016 00:44 Acrofales wrote:
Can we agree to not post daily beast articles anymore? They seem universally terrible. Like... breitbart levels of terrible.


That was a pretty clear cut article premised on Giuliani's own words.

Even so, if there was anything he should probably have been able to find a non shit tier source for it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18838 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-03 15:59:53
November 03 2016 15:59 GMT
#117811
I'm not finding a single corroborating article out there, so unless this journalist is on some hot shit scoop, this one won't stand. That said, the contents of the article aren't particularly surprising, as that sort of influence peddling is the stuff of Trump's career as a dealmaker.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 03 2016 16:05 GMT
#117812
Alabama's top election official opposes registering voters automatically when they turn 18 because, as he put it, allowing "lazy people" to register without any effort would "cheapen" the work civil rights leaders put in fighting for everyone's right to vote in the United States.

"I don’t think that just because your birthday comes around, that you ought to be registered to vote," Secretary of State John Merrill (R) said in an interview published online Wednesday for an upcoming documentary by Brian Jenkins "Answering the Call."

Merrill then listed civil rights leaders like Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), Martin Luther King, Jr., and Rosa Parks, arguing that their legacy would be diminished by automatic voter registration.

"These people fought—some of them were beaten, some of them were killed—because of their desire to ensure that everybody that wanted to had the right to register to vote and participate in the process. I’m not going to cheapen the work that they did. I’m not going to embarrass them by allowing somebody that’s too sorry to get up off of their rear end to go register to vote," he said.

However, as Slate noted, Lewis has pushed legislation that would put in place automatic voter registration.

While discussing his opposition to automatic voter registration Merrill expressed a lot of concern about "lazy people."

"I’m not attracted to lazy people or sorry people or people that don’t want to get involved," he said in the interview. "I’m sure there’s probably some good people that are sorry and lazy, that don’t want to do anything, but those people and I would have a difficult time working together."

"And those people are not the people who we need leading this country, and they’re not the people who will be trying to find a way to change the future of our country to ensure that all of our citizens are treated fairly and equally and have an opportunity to achieve at the level that they desire," he continued. "And so if you’re too sorry or lazy to get up off of your rear and to go register to vote, or to register electronically, and then to go vote, then you don’t deserve that privilege."

He said that while he is in office as Alabama's secretary of state, residents will "have to show some initiative to become a registered voter in this state."

"There will be no impediment to participating, but if you want to participate in this process, you’re going to have to participate," he said.

Merrill and the state of Alabama were criticized last year after the state closed several driver's license offices, many of which were located in majority black counties. He insisted that the DMV closures would not prevent people form obtaining the photo identification now needed to vote in the state.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 03 2016 16:06 GMT
#117813
What are you saying needs to be corroborated? Giuliani says himself he's in contact with the agents who pressured Comey to take action.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
November 03 2016 16:07 GMT
#117814
On November 04 2016 01:06 Doodsmack wrote:
What are you saying needs to be corroborated? Giuliani says himself he's in contact with the agents who pressured Comey to take action.


I think the assumption is that, similar to Breitbart, quotes may be 100% fabricated.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18838 Posts
November 03 2016 16:08 GMT
#117815
Well of course he's in contact with them, New York is a very insular community when it comes to people like Giuliani and Trump mixed with upper level law enforcement. The nature of that contact and the timing of events and the rest of it is where the real inquiry begins.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 03 2016 16:12 GMT
#117816
the ny fbi having cozy relationship with trump is really just rich irony. that's one way of community policing, i guess.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18115 Posts
November 03 2016 16:13 GMT
#117817
My main objection is going from "Giuliani has been talking to FBI agents" to Trump cooked up the FBI reopening Emailghazi. There's a completely unsubstantiated jump there, which is the main push of the article. In particular, it took two separate Giuliani quotes, talking about different things in different contexts, and put them together to give them new meaning. A meaning which may or may not be true, but is definitely not substantiated by anything.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 03 2016 16:25 GMT
#117818
I think "Trump cooked up" is a little strong of a description of the article, but Giuliani says they've got a big surprise coming in the next couple days, and then the only surprise that comes in the next couple days is Comey's letter. Other Democrats have said the Trump camp has been privately pushing FBI people to take action. And reportedly, Comey was reacting to leak/resignation threats from within the FBI. Suffice it to say there's a lot of political bias going back and forth both inside and outside the FBI.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 03 2016 16:26 GMT
#117819
http://www.wsj.com/articles/secret-recordings-fueled-fbi-feud-in-clinton-probe-1478135518

The journal is reporting similar stories that agents felt they had enough to proceed with a case against the CF and were told the evidence was not enough to merit charges. The fact that all of this is coming out in the last week of the election.

I will say that upon further review, the article I previously posted makes some mental leaps that are not validated by evidence. I don’t think they are 100% unlikely, but they lack evidence to support.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JW_DTLA
Profile Joined December 2015
242 Posts
November 03 2016 16:35 GMT
#117820
The articles about FBI leaks are all going to be hokey because the leaks are from anonymous sources that have clear axes to grind with the Clintons. We know a Trumpkin faction exists within the FBI at this point, but the details surrounding outing them are all going to be vague for another few days. It will be a while before the troop-level FBI agents who are trying to push out anti-Clinton stories are outed.
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