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On September 30 2016 11:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 10:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 10:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). Because very few in DC are actually against what he's doing, they are just against him and he's unusually sloppy and greedy even for that group. Good thing the Republicans have an anti-establishment candidate who will change up the system then, right? Well one thing Trump has been good at is calling attention to things people weren't focused on (albeit in crude and idiotic ways often). Perhaps Trump running the office as blatantly as he's admitted bribing politicians and avoiding taxes is just the reality check this country needs. It's a lot easier to eat chicken nuggets when you don't have to be viscerally reminded of what it takes for you to be able to get 10 for $1.49 at BK.
Now, if only we could get some attention to the false correlation of popularity and competency.
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I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI.
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On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI.
I think comey was very thorough in his review; including his review of other cases brought up on that statute. He included intent because it was required to do so.
I'd say he did a very thorough and decent job.
How much faith did you have in the fbi previously?
It seems like you're unwilling to accept that maybe Comey made the right call.
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On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI.
Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place.
I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day.
Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy.
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On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place.
You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's.
Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like.
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On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like.
Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President.
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On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President.
It's basically Kingpin vs Dr. Octopus (actually Jean Grey might be better) vs Ambush Bug vs Snowbird
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On September 30 2016 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. It's basically Kingpin vs Dr. Octopus vs Ambush Bug vs Snowbird
This implies Trump has any level of competency.
I was thinking more 70's villain. Jumps from dumb evil scheme to the next, no long term plan other than immediate self-satisfaction...constantly self-aggrandizing and motive ranting. Wastes money on his wacky plans that outpaces the potential gains...
Edit: Come to think of it, "build a giant wall to hold Mexico ransom" sounds exactly like a 70's villain plot.
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On September 30 2016 13:56 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. It's basically Kingpin vs Dr. Octopus vs Ambush Bug vs Snowbird This implies Trump has any level of competency. I was thinking more 70's villain. Jumps from dumb evil scheme to the next, no long term plan other than immediate self-satisfaction...constantly self-aggrandizing and motive ranting. Wastes money on his wacky plans that outpaces the potential gains... Edit: Come to think of it, "build a giant wall to hold Mexico ransom" sounds exactly like a 70's villain plot.
Point taken, but it's more fun to imagine which parallels were intentional and which were coincidence in mine.
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On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy.
The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets.
Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications.
On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like.
I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president.
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So Trump and Clinton were also asked about their favorite leader. Both went with Merkel.
Especially in the case of Trump this is surprising. Didn't he brand Clinton as "wanting to become the US Merkel"? And then rampaged over Merkels policies? In his favorite leader speech he mentioned his dissappointment about her refugee handling but otherwise only praised her.
And Hillarys answer:
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Merkel is an easy answer because she's pretty neutral except for the whole immigrant issue, which people on this side of the world don't care as much about, at least not the way a European would.
Personally if I were a candidate I would go with May. Very neutral choice because she is too new a PM to fuck anything up and she is from a nation closely allied with the US. Generic answer to a "gimme" generic question that doesn't have much upside (no insight can be gained from such a surface level question) but that makes you look like a fool if you can't answer or you answer "President of Evilstan" or something.
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I would have expected something like Netanyahu. Not that I would support this judgement, but I would have assumed this is giving points in the republican/conservative Anti-Obama-crowd.
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On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications.
Listening to the recent Joe Rogan podcast with Dan Carlin (from the hardcore history podcast) Dan made a point about classified information which I'd never really thought about but it makes sense. People in the government classify everything. Mundane things that they have no business hiding from the public, indiscretions and crimes they want to hide from people, all the way up to the super secret stuff that very obviously you don't want your enemies finding. The problem with trying to keep every damn thing secret is that it basically forces whistle blowing. If you try and keep everything under wraps the public is going to start distrusting you and eventually someone is going to start leaking crazy shit and people will rightfully get pissed at the government. Where if it was used more sparingly and properly people would be less suspicious and people would be less likely to pull the curtain back.
Problem is if you're in power why would you ever stop doing messed up stuff if you can just hide it with classification? Like many things there's no motive to change the SOP when you're in power and it benefits you.
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On September 30 2016 16:25 mahrgell wrote:So Trump and Clinton were also asked about their favorite leader. Both went with Merkel. Especially in the case of Trump this is surprising. Didn't he brand Clinton as "wanting to become the US Merkel"? And then rampaged over Merkels policies? In his favorite leader speech he mentioned his dissappointment about her refugee handling but otherwise only praised her. And Hillarys answer: https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/781603896661712896
He might have said Merkel, but we all know he meant Putin.
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On September 30 2016 16:33 mahrgell wrote:
I would have expected something like Netanyahu. Not that I would support this judgement, but I would have assumed this is giving points in the republican/conservative Anti-Obama-crowd.
Yeah, Netanyahu / Erdogan / Duterte are more in line with his political views.
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Can't make this shit up...
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1) Its your job to consider the consequences of your own bills
2) There was wide spread worry about the consequences of the bill
3) He fucking veto'd it.
This is basically a mini version of what would happen if the Republicans had ever passed any of their ACA defunding bills.
They really are a clueless bunch of useless idiots.
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Thanks Obama!
So is McConnell basically admitting that Obama is smarter than all of congress combined? Apparently that brain trust couldn't piece it together even with the veto and being told by the president exactly what this opened the door to.
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EPT
