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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 17 2016 00:01 Mohdoo wrote:
An interesting thing I've seen is how places become known for giving generous portions and how that is a huge selling point, especially for Asian food places. We all have a Thai place nearby that gives you like 10 lbs of food for $10. It ain't great, but give me a 6 pack of beer and I'll slam that whole trough of noodle goodness down my throat.
At places like that I just eat half and take the other half to go. Then I have 2 meals for $10.
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On September 16 2016 23:52 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 23:47 Acrofales wrote:On September 16 2016 23:31 KwarK wrote:On September 16 2016 22:19 Doodsmack wrote:
The statement is the polar opposite of an apology lol. 5% of the black vote ftw.
But don't worry Trump backers - 95% of black people just don't know what's best for them. In fairness 95% of all people probably don't know what's best for them. We have an obesity epidemic in the US, basic shit like "when you're full, stop eating" isn't working. Way to oversimplify obesity... Yeh it's someone elses fault they spend their pay checks on shit fast food. Remember people, literally nothing is in your control.
Way to put words in my mouth.
All I am saying is that obesity has significantly more complex causes than simply "people eat too much".
To start with, people don't necessarily eat too much (in general), they simply eat too much of the wrong stuff. In addition, "feeling full" is a biological function of your body, which can go completely haywire (obese people often simply don't feel full, or worse still: never learned to recognize that feeling).
So all I wanted to say is that KwarK was making a stupid comment, because the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with people not knowing what is best for them.
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On September 16 2016 23:54 Mohdoo wrote:
Rice, beans, chicken thighs and frozen vegetables are only more expensive than like...dollar menu things. American obesity is purely a function of poor decision making. Unhealthy food is cheap, but so are a lot of healthy options.
Although you are partly correct, remember that it takes time to prepare food and store it. Time is a luxury for the poorest sections of America. One of the reasons the poor were underfed in the history was that they could not afford receive enough food or did not have time to prepare it. Now it is that low preparation food is created and marketed at a low cost that is not healthy. And the food science of today is so much better. The slow increase of sugars in all types of fast foods is a sign of that.
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On September 17 2016 00:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 23:53 ticklishmusic wrote:
i recommend reading about food deserts for a start
I get fast food all the time now I'm working full time and studying full time because it's cheap and convenient. It won't make you obese unless you keep eating it after you've had enough. I totally understand why a single mother working 2 jobs and caring for her kids might not be able to make a homecooked meal every single night, especially if there isn't a market selling free range gluten free quinoa on her bus route. But that doesn't explain why, when she chooses an alternative option, she then eats too much of it. The average obese person could solve their obesity by making absolutely zero changes to their purchasing habits and simply scraping their plate into the bin after eating half of each meal. It's not the food, it's the quantity. Always has been.
You're significantly more educated and disciplined that the average American. Most of the people in this forum are. I'm not encouraging abdication of personal responsibility, but there's a lot of things stacked against people with more limited means and education that lead to cruddy lifestyles and health. In isolation, eating healthy on a budget is a surmountable challenge but combined with all the other stuff that's part of a holistically healthy lifestyle it gets hard.
It's definitely true that there are a lot of people who *should* know better and end up obese anyways though.
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On September 17 2016 00:03 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 00:01 Mohdoo wrote:
An interesting thing I've seen is how places become known for giving generous portions and how that is a huge selling point, especially for Asian food places. We all have a Thai place nearby that gives you like 10 lbs of food for $10. It ain't great, but give me a 6 pack of beer and I'll slam that whole trough of noodle goodness down my throat. At places like that I just eat half and take the other half to go. Then i have 2 meals for $10.
Same, which is why the 6 pack of beer is usually involved. Or I get it to go on a Friday night and eat away at it during a night of gaming. I am more so tossing in a silly personal anecdote to bring up the idea of large portions actually being glorified in our country, rather than being something we are cautious of. I noticed this to not be the case in Korea or Japan when I visited. No idea what its like in Europe, but I'd imagine some parts are just as bad as us.
While I recognize that value should be considered when eating, I think it often actually ends up with people eating 20%+ more than they normally would as a result of having such a mountain of food. Sure, I take some home, but only after I gave it my best shot. Perhaps I should not have given it my best shot...
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Stop eating when you are full, so obvious. We live in an environment that is over abundant, with stimuli ranging from sex to food to music to internet to whatever in a moments notice. Our monkey brain's can't handle it and the end result ]mini addictions (they are addictions for sure but I don't know how they compare to drug addictions, more research being done on behavioral shit atm). Combine that with the high stress life style in the US and these quickly become escape mechanisms that ultimately lead to poor decision making: keep eating even when full. A true first world problem.
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On September 17 2016 00:05 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 23:52 bo1b wrote:On September 16 2016 23:47 Acrofales wrote:On September 16 2016 23:31 KwarK wrote:On September 16 2016 22:19 Doodsmack wrote:
The statement is the polar opposite of an apology lol. 5% of the black vote ftw.
But don't worry Trump backers - 95% of black people just don't know what's best for them. In fairness 95% of all people probably don't know what's best for them. We have an obesity epidemic in the US, basic shit like "when you're full, stop eating" isn't working. Way to oversimplify obesity... Yeh it's someone elses fault they spend their pay checks on shit fast food. Remember people, literally nothing is in your control. Way to put words in my mouth. All I am saying is that obesity has significantly more complex causes than simply "people eat too much". To start with, people don't necessarily eat too much (in general), they simply eat too much of the wrong stuff. In addition, "feeling full" is a biological function of your body, which can go completely haywire (obese people often simply don't feel full, or worse still: never learned to recognize that feeling). So all I wanted to say is that KwarK was making a stupid comment, because the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with people not knowing what is best for them.
You'd have to be will fully ignorant to be 25+ years of age and living on McDonalds or some such.
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United States43739 Posts
On September 17 2016 00:05 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 23:52 bo1b wrote:On September 16 2016 23:47 Acrofales wrote:On September 16 2016 23:31 KwarK wrote:On September 16 2016 22:19 Doodsmack wrote:
The statement is the polar opposite of an apology lol. 5% of the black vote ftw.
But don't worry Trump backers - 95% of black people just don't know what's best for them. In fairness 95% of all people probably don't know what's best for them. We have an obesity epidemic in the US, basic shit like "when you're full, stop eating" isn't working. Way to oversimplify obesity... Yeh it's someone elses fault they spend their pay checks on shit fast food. Remember people, literally nothing is in your control. Way to put words in my mouth. All I am saying is that obesity has significantly more complex causes than simply "people eat too much". To start with, people don't necessarily eat too much (in general), they simply eat too much of the wrong stuff. In addition, "feeling full" is a biological function of your body, which can go completely haywire (obese people often simply don't feel full, or worse still: never learned to recognize that feeling). So all I wanted to say is that KwarK was making a stupid comment, because the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with people not knowing what is best for them.
How is obesity not a symptom of the complete inability of the average individual to not solve simple decision making problems? If you're obese you have eaten too much. Too much is simply another way of saying "more than you should". If you eat too much you've eaten more than you should. Not eaten the wrong stuff, 1000 calories of home cooked fresh ingredients lasagna isn't going to make you any less fat than the microwavable Walmart one. What went wrong is that your body only needed 500 calories so when you ate that entire lasagna, and not just half, you were eating half a lasagna too much. And even if you don't have a "I feel full now" reflex that tells you when you've eaten enough food there are no shortage of other feedback measures, many of which are far more accurate than that. Like how pretty much all food outside of home prepared meals has calorie information on it. The maths of "this burger said it contained 700 calories, I now contain the burger, how many calories do I now contain" isn't too difficult. But if you fail at that math you can go simpler and just think "my clothes no longer fit, even though I still feel hungry I'm probably not at risk of starvation".
If one of the major health crises in this country were skydiving related accidents we wouldn't get this kind of pushback for proposing "couldn't you just only skydive as much as you biologically need to?". Eating is a biological necessity but it is also a recreational activity beyond a certain point, found near the start of the third portion.
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United States43739 Posts
On September 17 2016 00:10 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 00:00 KwarK wrote:On September 16 2016 23:53 ticklishmusic wrote:
i recommend reading about food deserts for a start
I get fast food all the time now I'm working full time and studying full time because it's cheap and convenient. It won't make you obese unless you keep eating it after you've had enough. I totally understand why a single mother working 2 jobs and caring for her kids might not be able to make a homecooked meal every single night, especially if there isn't a market selling free range gluten free quinoa on her bus route. But that doesn't explain why, when she chooses an alternative option, she then eats too much of it. The average obese person could solve their obesity by making absolutely zero changes to their purchasing habits and simply scraping their plate into the bin after eating half of each meal. It's not the food, it's the quantity. Always has been. You're significantly more educated and disciplined that the average American. Most of the people in this forum are.
Which is my point. I originally pointed out obesity just to offer a corollary to the claim that 95% of black people don't know what's good for them and that Trump does. Given we live in a society in which we accept that a plurality of people can't handle the decision of how much to eat without fucking it up (due to lack of education, discipline, societal problems, food addiction, whatever) I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that tax policy might be beyond a lot of people.
Doodsmack posted this as a gotcha
On September 16 2016 22:19 Doodsmack wrote:
The statement is the polar opposite of an apology lol. 5% of the black vote ftw.
But don't worry Trump backers - 95% of black people just don't know what's best for them.
but I don't think it necessarily works. If we take out the word black I think there is a lot of evidence to support the claim that people just suck at making good decisions. We need to involve people anyway because the alternatives to democracy suck but I don't think we should conflate the importance of democracy as a system with the rightness of the average member of the public on any given issue. Obesity was just the first example that came to mind to indicate the inability of the public to make good decisions, even when fully informed and equipped to make them.
Democracy is good =/= the people make good decisions
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Educate yourselves on obesity before you start spouting all this drivel.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jun/23/truth-about-obesity-10-shocking-things-need-to-know
8. Your brain, not your stomach, tells you when to stop eating
Hunger is in the mind. Dr Suzanne Higgs at Birmingham University carried out a remarkable experiment to prove it. Her team gave a group of amnesiacs a lunch of sandwiches and cakes. When everybody had finished eating, they cleared away and brought in a fresh lunch 10 minutes later. A control group of people with no memory problems groaned and refused any more food. The amnesiac group tucked in and ate the same again.
When we eat in front of the television or while looking at our computer screen at work, we are not giving lunch or dinner our full attention. Our brain is not registering how much we have eaten and we may well feel we haven't had enough. Higgs is working on a phone app so that people can take pictures of their meals and snacks as a reminder that they've actually had enough.
AKA: your brain is not actually receiving the signal to stop eating. TV dinners are bad. Not the amount you eat, but the how you eat.
9. By the age of five, it is almost too late to intervene
The EarlyBird diabetes study of 300 children in Devon showed that they had already gained 70–90% of their excess weight before primary school. It is far harder to get rid of weight than to put it on, even as a child. Some experts think that if we want to prevent obesity, we're going to have to find ways to help parents from, or even before, the birth of their baby.
We think obesity is about adults eating fried chicken and chips. But most babies in the UK are overfed – 75% of those aged four to 18 months in the government-commissioned Diet and Nutrition Survey of Infants and Young Children, published in 2013, were getting more calories than they needed from formula milk and solid foods. Breastfed babies, who can look skinny compared with their bottle-fed friends, are in fact usually the right weight. Big, bouncing babies, contrary to the old wisdom, are not healthier babies. Slow growth is best. Low birthweight babies, in particular, should not be overfed in a bid to help them catch up.
Those who think children are getting fat because they sit in front of the television too much may also be wrong. Another finding from EarlyBird was that inactivity does not lead to obesity – obesity leads to inactivity. Overweight children feel less like running about. Shockingly, out of 300 children monitored from the age of five for 12 years, three had developed diabetes by the end and 55 had high blood glucose levels that suggested they were on the verge of it too.
AKA: if you're brought up without being taught to eat properly, starting as a baby and toddler, you will never ever eat properly, or even know how to.
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On September 17 2016 00:15 biology]major wrote:
Stop eating when you are full, so obvious. We live in an environment that is over abundant, with stimuli ranging from sex to food to music to internet to whatever in a moments notice. Our monkey brain's can't handle it and the end result ]mini addictions (they are addictions for sure but I don't know how they compare to drug addictions, more research being done on behavioral shit atm). Combine that with the high stress life style in the US and these quickly become escape mechanisms that ultimately lead to poor decision making: keep eating even when full. A true first world problem.
food addiction is definitely a real thing, though that's really only a tiny proportion of the population. what most of the people who are obese or on the way to being obese have is a little different. first world problems is a pretty good way of putting it.
On September 17 2016 00:23 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 00:10 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 17 2016 00:00 KwarK wrote:On September 16 2016 23:53 ticklishmusic wrote:
i recommend reading about food deserts for a start
I get fast food all the time now I'm working full time and studying full time because it's cheap and convenient. It won't make you obese unless you keep eating it after you've had enough. I totally understand why a single mother working 2 jobs and caring for her kids might not be able to make a homecooked meal every single night, especially if there isn't a market selling free range gluten free quinoa on her bus route. But that doesn't explain why, when she chooses an alternative option, she then eats too much of it. The average obese person could solve their obesity by making absolutely zero changes to their purchasing habits and simply scraping their plate into the bin after eating half of each meal. It's not the food, it's the quantity. Always has been. You're significantly more educated and disciplined that the average American. Most of the people in this forum are. Which is my point. I originally pointed out obesity just to offer a corollary to the claim that 95% of black people don't know what's good for them and that Trump does. Given we live in a society in which we accept that a plurality of people can't handle the decision of how much to eat without fucking it up (due to lack of education, discipline, societal problems, food addiction, whatever) I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that tax policy might be beyond a lot of people. Doodsmack posted this as a gotcha Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 22:19 Doodsmack wrote:
The statement is the polar opposite of an apology lol. 5% of the black vote ftw.
But don't worry Trump backers - 95% of black people just don't know what's best for them. but I don't think it necessarily works. If we take out the word black I think there is a lot of evidence to support the claim that people just suck at making good decisions. We need to involve people anyway because the alternatives to democracy suck but I don't think we should conflate the importance of democracy as a system with the rightness of the average member of the public on any given issue. Obesity was just the first example that came to mind to indicate the inability of the public to make good decisions, even when fully informed and equipped to make them. Democracy is good =/= the people make good decisions
yeah, i thought we'd gotten far enough down the entire obesity epidemic tangent that the original point wasn't really part of the conversation anymore lol.
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What does anything on that buzzfeed esque article have to do with what's being said?
It's complete shit to believe that if you cook fresh food, don't eat fast food frequently, restrict the amount of confectionary consumed, and excersise you won't maintain a proper weight.
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i think kwark is just anhedonic so he doesnt quite understand what all the hubbub is about with "taste" and "food". its simply a maths problem for optimum robot maintenance
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On September 17 2016 00:30 bo1b wrote:
What does anything on that buzzfeed esque article have to do with what's being said?
It's complete shit to believe that if you cook fresh food, don't eat fast food frequently, restrict the amount of confectionary consumed, and excersise you won't maintain a proper weight.
It was mainly about points 8, 9, and partially 10. I didn't feel like linking actual scientific articles because I know absolutely nobody here clicks on them anyway. I have clarified it in the post.
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I agree that personal responsibility is a huge part treating obesity in the US. I just think that it is reductive to focus on that while ignoring the fast food and snack industries extensive research into the exact amount of sugar needed to make their food have addictive qualities.
For fuck sake, Mcdonalds French fries are blanched to remove all sugar from the potato and then they add the max amount of sugar back in, but just enough so won’t burn during the cooking process. And then dose them in vegetable oil and salt to assure we don’t really notice the sugar. They are deeply invested in the science of making your brain crave their food.
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United States43739 Posts
Not a single one of those addresses anything I said. I have absolutely no idea what you think you were proving by posting this but it in no way responds to "obesity is primarily caused by eating too much" which is damn near to being a tautology, like "exhaustion is caused by exerting too much" or even "poverty is caused by not having money too much". But if you want to continue this absurd exchange I think PM would be more appropriate.
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We can all agree that being overweight is bad.
We can all agree that one can eat healthy on a tight budget.
We can all agree that everybody can pull 10 mins of their lives to do some pushups/crunches per day.
No excuses.
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It's mind-boggling how much misinformation there is here about obesity.
Just like with Clinton's pneumonia, a health-related issue crops up and suddenly everyone thinks they're medically trained/some kind of biologically related scientist.
Enough with the psuedo-scientific arguments over obesity and let's get back to politics, shall we?
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On September 17 2016 00:30 bo1b wrote:
What does anything on that buzzfeed esque article have to do with what's being said?
It's complete shit to believe that if you cook fresh food, don't eat fast food frequently, restrict the amount of confectionary consumed, and excersise you won't maintain a proper weight.
you're barking up the wrong tree. no one is disputing basic health science.
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How many of you here actual need to restrain yourselves from eating to much? I'd be dishonest to take an attitude of superiority towards fat people since it takes me 0 effort not to overeat
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EPT
