US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4809

On August 24 2016 05:48 TheTenthDoc wrote:


Do you know how many Obama deported in 8 years? ~2.5 million.

That's why 11 million was, and is, a dumb number Trump blew out his ass and hung a flag on.

Also, 11 million is the estimate for that total number of illegal immigrants in the United States, which is certainly not doable with Obama's procedures in a decade, let alone a term.

On August 24 2016 06:01 TheLordofAwesome wrote:

I'm curious, who are the staunch Wikileaks defenders in this thread?

On August 24 2016 06:03 oBlade wrote:

He blew the official stats for how many people live in the US undocumented out of his ass? That's not a coincidence.

On August 24 2016 06:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


Chicago PD "isn't tough" lol. Oh dear, Trump. Even Fox News is sick of you.

On August 24 2016 06:03 oBlade wrote:

He blew the official stats for how many people live in the US undocumented out of his ass? That's not a coincidence.

Misleading classifications make it look like traditional deportations are up. They’re not.

Proponents of comprehensive immigration reform aren’t buying the Republican argument that President Obama simply can’t be trusted to secure the border or enforce new immigration laws.

The Washington Post editorial board called this suggestion “transparently false,” citing the “record” number of deportations under the Obama administration. Meanwhile, liberal activists have urged the president to halt all deportations of illegal immigrants via executive action.

But there is ample evidence to suggest the administration’s deportation record is severely inflated, or at the very least misrepresented.

Consider the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) report on year-end removal numbers for fiscal year 2013. ICE reported a total of 368,644 removals for the year (down considerably from the 409,949 removals reported the previous year).

The ICE report noted that of those 368,644 removals, 235,093 (or nearly two-thirds) were carried out on individuals “apprehended while, or shortly after, attempting to illegally enter the United States.” This shows that while the Obama administration continues to deport illegal immigrants in large numbers, most of these removals do not constitute a “deportation” in the conventional sense.

Activists fighting to end deportations argue that, while the people being deported are here illegally, they’ve been living in the country for some time, often with relatives or children of their own — hence the charge that deportations “break up families.” Cases like these exist, but as the ICE data show, they are the minority. For the most part, the Obama administration is “deporting” people it catches in the act of entering the country illegally.

In fact, the Department of Homeland Security’s own guidelines distinguish between “removals” and “returns.” According to DHS, a removal is defined as “the compulsory and confirmed movement of an inadmissible or deportable alien out of the United States based on an order of removal.”

Returns, meanwhile, are defined as “the confirmed movement of an inadmissible or deportable alien out of the United States not based on an order of removal. Most of the voluntary returns are of Mexican nationals who have been apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol and are returned to Mexico.” The primary difference between the two categories is that removals are processed by ICE, while returns are not.

Immigration activists have sharply criticized President Obama for a rising volume of deportations, labeling him the "deporter in chief" and staging large protests that have harmed his standing with some Latinos, a key group of voters for Democrats.

But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

The shift in who gets tallied helped the administration look tough in its early years but now may be backfiring politically. Immigration advocates plan protests across the country this week around what they say will be the 2 millionth deportation under Obama — a mark expected to be hit in the next few days. And Democratic strategists fret about a decline in Latino voter turnout for this fall's election.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called "voluntary returns," but which critics derisively termed "catch and release." Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement's deportation statistics.

Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom have just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.

At the same time, the administration largely ended immigration roundups at workplaces and shifted investigators into targeting business owners who illegally hired foreign workers.

"If you are a run-of-the-mill immigrant here illegally, your odds of getting deported are close to zero — it's just highly unlikely to happen," John Sandweg, until recently the acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said in an interview.

Even when immigration officials want to deport someone who already has settled in the country, doing so is "virtually impossible" because of a lengthy backlog in the immigration courts, Sandweg said. Once people who have no prior removals or convictions are placed in deportation proceedings, actually removing them from the country can take six years or more in some jurisdictions, Sandweg said.

What is the trend in deportation of immigrants under the Obama administration? This seemingly simple question is proving very hard to answer. Consider three characterizations from recent media reports. Here is The Economist in February 2014:

America is expelling illegal immigrants at nine times the rate of 20 years ago; nearly 2m so far under Barack Obama, easily outpacing any previous president.

In April, the Los Angeles Times wrote:

A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data. Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

And last week, Julia Preston of the New York Times reported that in the fiscal year 2013, the immigration courts saw a 26 percent drop in the number of people who have been deported, thereby producing:

… a different picture of President Obama’s enforcement policies than the one painted by many immigrant advocates, who have assailed the president as the ‘deporter in chief’ and accused him of rushing to reach a record of 2 million deportations. While Obama has deported more foreigners than any other president, the pace of deportations has recently declined.

Somehow, the Obama administration is simultaneously responsible for the highest rate of deportation in 20 years and a 26 percent drop in deportation. What is going on here? As it turns out, changes in immigration law, terminology and classification are causing this confusion.

One problem is the continued use of “deportation” in virtually all media reporting. In actuality, that category has been obsolete in immigration law since 1996. Prior to 1996, immigration law distinguished between immigrants who were “excluded,” or stopped and prevented from entering U.S. territory, and those who were “deported,” or expelled from the United States after they had made their way into U.S. territory. After 1996, both exclusion and deportation were rolled into one procedure called “removal.” At that point, the term “deportation” no longer had any meaning within the official immigration statistics. Its continued use in media reports is part of the confusion.

The large number of immigrants who are apprehended, usually but not exclusively along the southwestern border, and prevented from entering the country were part of a category called “voluntary departure” before 2006. Now that is called “return,” which also includes the subcategory of “reinstatement.” There is also a large category of “expedited removals” of persons that do not appear before an immigration judge but the procedure carries all the sanctions as a judge ordered removal.

On August 24 2016 06:20 TheTenthDoc wrote:


No, he blew out his ass that it was in any way possible to deport that many people.

But I'm glad you decided to just accept it's impossible and poke at minutiae.

I guess 8 terms would make it possible, maybe he'll make a deal to amend the constitution and be President until he's 102.

On August 24 2016 06:38 oBlade wrote:

There's some kind of fundamental bias treating Trump differently. I don't expect someone to say "Ladies and gentlemen, there are 12 million illegal immigrants, and maybe the number could be as high as 30 million. I am tough on immigration. Some of them have to go back."

On August 24 2016 08:15 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
Trump keeps the immigration softening rolling. Pretty soon Trump will come out for the Gang of 8 bill.

Patrick Svitek
"Hannity asks if Trump would change laws to accommodate those that have "contributed to society."
TRUMP: "There certainly can be a softening""

"This is from a town hall that was taped this afternoon in Austin. You guys, he literally said "softening." Please recall that his devoted fan base has been saying that it is stupid to say Trump is softening on immigration, and now here is Trump talking to his best, most loyal devotee, and literally saying the word "softening.""

http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2016/08/23/ensoftening-went-limp-immigration-amnesty-first-hannity-trump/

On August 24 2016 06:38 oBlade wrote:

I mean this is just how politicians (and people) are. There's some kind of fundamental bias treating Trump differently. I don't expect someone to say "Ladies and gentlemen, there are 12 million illegal immigrants, and maybe the number could be as high as 30 million. I am tough on immigration. Some of them have to go back."

Who remembers such soundbytes as:
"Read my lips: As few new taxes as reasonably possible."
"I think a Change would do you good."
"Yes we should probably be able to!"
"Make America better."

Presidents have an effect on the direction of the country beyond the calendar limits of their administration. We went to the moon 4 years after Kennedy's term would have ended. Maybe there were people like you at that time going yeah, sure if he's an 8-term president.

On August 24 2016 08:23 SoSexy wrote:


So you are basically saying that people can change their mind? Wow. I thought people were robots...

On August 24 2016 08:23 SoSexy wrote:


So you are basically saying that people can change their mind? Wow. I thought people were robots...

On August 24 2016 07:12 Doodsmack wrote:


He could say something other than "I'm deporting them all" pretty easily. He instead went to the extreme. He made a policy proposal - it's a bit odd to say "oh I don't expect someone to make a policy proposal different from that".

Suffice it to say you are bending over backwards right now.

On August 24 2016 08:35 TheYango wrote:

It's not so much whether or not he's changed his mind, but rather some people obstinately insisting that he hasn't.

A candidate is allowed to change his mind, but at least call it what it is.