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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 25 2016 16:33 GMT
#88761
Yeah, Trump is running on one of the most radical platforms that we've seen in a while.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 25 2016 16:34 GMT
#88762
On July 26 2016 01:14 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 01:00 Mohdoo wrote:
On July 26 2016 00:56 KwarK wrote:
It's amusing to me how irrelevant the popular vote is. Most of America might as well stay at home on election day, the election is decided by a few key states.


But couldn't you say "the popular vote" is what creates this dynamic? The consistent, reliable voting habits of the majority of Americans are what create this situation. They play a role, it's just that they always play the same one.

No, the electoral college is what creates this dynamic. The popular vote means that a vote is a vote, a predictable vote is worth as much as a swing vote, you just want more of them. This situation means that gaining votes only matters if you gain them in the right places, otherwise you're not changing shit.


Electoral college doesn't really matter much though

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-worry-about-the-electoral-college-math/
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10842 Posts
July 25 2016 16:42 GMT
#88763
Like trump hasn't taken any position ever in the last 20-30i years
aqui
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Germany1023 Posts
July 25 2016 16:46 GMT
#88764
I'm not usually in this thread and i skimmed the last 6 pages for anything on this but found nothing, my apologies if this was already discussed. I found a New York Times front page article but can't access it for free so i'm quoting the first google hit on the topic from the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/24/clinton-campaign-manager-russians-leaked-democrats-emails-to-help-donald-trump/
Hillary Clinton's campaign manager, Robby Mook, indicated that he believes "Russian state actors" had some involvement in the leaked Democratic National Committee emails that show top Democrats writing off Sen. Bernie Sanders's chances during the primaries.

"There's evidence Russian state actors broke into the DNC, stole those emails, and there are experts saying they are releasing these emails for the purpose of helping Donald Trump," Mook told CNN's Jake Tapper in an interview that aired Sunday on "State of the Union." "I don't think it's coincidental these emails were released on the eve of our convention here."

Mook said the idea that Russia leaked Democrats' emails to possibly help Trump was "disturbing."

"We need to be concerned Trump and his allies made changes to the platform to make it more pro-Russian, and we saw him talking about how NATO shouldn't intervene [in Russian disputes]. So I think when you put it all together, it's a disturbing picture," he said.

In a statement emailed to The Washington Post, Trump's campaign called that assertion a "joke."

"This shows that Hillary Clinton will do and say anything to win the election and hold onto power in the rigged system," said Jason Miller, a senior communications adviser for Trump.

When Tapper pressed him further, Mook made a connection between the June breach of the DNC's network by Russian government hackers and WikiLeaks's publication on Friday of 20,000 emails from DNC officials.

Some of those emails appear to show party officials questioning Sanders's viability and discussing how to use his faith against him.

"If they are the ones that took them, we have to believe they are the ones releasing them," Mook said.

He doubled down on that assertion in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos on Sunday.
However they got released, some of the emails could be damaging to the Democratic Party's attempts to unify at its convention in Philadelphia this week. The DNC is supposed to be neutral throughout the primary process, but Sanders spent much of it accusing the DNC and its chair, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Fla.), of supporting Clinton behind the scenes.

[Democrats grapple with intraparty divisions two days before convention opens]

Wasserman Schultz will not speak at the convention, CNN reported.

On Sunday, Sanders repeated his call for Wasserman Schultz to resign. Mook didn't go that far in his interviews on Sunday, instead saying, "I'm going to leave that to the DNC, because I don't have all the facts."

In a nutshell: HRC campaign believes russian agents were involved in the leak of the DNC emails.
There is no evidence provided in the article as to the credibility of this claim but the NYT synopsis i could access reads the following:
Researchers have concluded that the Democratic National Committee was breached by two Russian intelligence agencies, and metadata from the released emails suggests that the documents passed through Russian computers.

This again does not tell me much, but the suggested implication that Russian agents are trying to help Donald Trumps campaign is pretty bizarre. Do you find it believable that there is anything to this?
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 25 2016 16:49 GMT
#88765
Seems pretty tinfoil hat like but I think it's pretty clear that Russia would be happy about a Trump presidency.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15736 Posts
July 25 2016 16:50 GMT
#88766
If Russia would benefit tremendously from a Trump presidency, and they have the capability to make it more likely, it would be stupid of Russia to not do so. Russia has every motivation to make Trump president.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 16:56:53
July 25 2016 16:53 GMT
#88767
There is a lot of that floating around. There was another story about a researcher in the DNC who’s personal email became under siege once they were put on writing internal memos about the Ukraine and some pro-Russia people there. Those personal emails, which have nothing to do with the DNC’s emails, were leaked in the same dump. It is odd that this one staffer's personal email was hacked and included in the dump.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-hacked-emails-of-dnc-oppo-researcher-point-to-russians-and-wider-penetration-154121061.html

I think its interesting that Yahoo reported on it, even though they were the ones being hacked. There is nothing solid yet, but Wikileaks is not what I would trust to as "independent" or without their own agenda.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 16:56:51
July 25 2016 16:55 GMT
#88768
On July 26 2016 01:31 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 01:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
Can some one explain to me why I should care about the general election? I'm an undecided moderate and I fail to see how my life has changed in the last 12 years regardless of who has been president.

I only closely follow/vote religiously for state/local government because that has a real effect on my life.

Anyone willing to tackle this?

This election is a pretty big one for that outlook. On the one side you have Clinton with the tagline of "basically more of the same, if you think America is pretty great then good for you, 4 more years of great". On the other you have Trump with "everything sucks and I will dramatically change everything and it'll be amazing, if you think America should be great again then vote for me".

Trump is attacking the trade agreements that put cheap goods, food, clothes and so forth in stores, the stable postwar international peace dominated by American strength and NATO, the agreements that keep us out of Iran, the good relations with our southern neighbor and pretty much everything else about the status quo. Whether or not you agree with Trump you have to acknowledge that he has very big plans on pretty much every subject. Even on things that aren't even a part of the political discussion like the 14th Amendment which nobody thought would be an election issue until Trump mentioned in passing that he wanted to dispose of it.

So if you don't really care, Clinton. If you want everything to change then Trump. But unless you live in one of the key battleground states then you might as well stay home either way.


Add on to this a very healthy dose of realism regarding Trump's chances of bringing his promised changes to fruition, as well as his lack of precision and penchant for volatility pertaining to many of the changes.
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
July 25 2016 16:55 GMT
#88769
On July 26 2016 00:54 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 00:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On July 26 2016 00:07 tenacity wrote:
On July 26 2016 00:04 Doodsmack wrote:
Bernie supporters would still be insane to vote for Trump and I think they probably know that.


maybe they will vote Green and, thus, making Trump's victory even more likely.


That depends on Johnson a lot.


I think Johnson has the potential to give Utah to Clinton. Or, more correctly stated, Romney can give Utah to Clinton. That could be huge and basically just means she only needs 1 contentious state to seal the deal.


Trump has the potential to get the rust belt states.
I see this election with alot more swinging states in either directions then last one. Traditional reds could become blue because of the problems within the GOP, while traditional blue ones (not the dark blue ones) could become light red.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 25 2016 16:56 GMT
#88770
Hillary is more likely to be antagonistic towards Russia than Trump. Trump wants to scale back American foreign commitments, whereas Hillary wants to maintain the status quo.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45253 Posts
July 25 2016 16:57 GMT
#88771
"Being an honorary chair of a campaign—a position that involves no responsibilities, no employees, no budget, and no duties—is not a promotion from being chair of the DNC.

Being an honorary chair does not mean that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is “in charge of” Hillary Clinton’s campaign. It doesn’t mean anything. That is, unless you think President Obama’s 2012 campaign was run by actress Eva Longoria; or former Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee; or high school guidance counselor Loretta Harper—all of whom were among 24 people who served as honorary co-chairs of Obama’s 2012 campaign.

Being an honorary chair is not a job. It’s a courtesy. It’s the associate producer of politics. It’s an empty title handed out to help ease Debbie Wasserman Schultz out of her chair and make it slightly more palatable for her to leave a job she’d done (badly) for five years without putting up a fuss.

It’s a face-saving sop.

But it’s not nothing. It’s a gesture extended to a old friend in a bad moment. It’s a moment of being empathetic and trying to both ease the pain for everyone caught up in bad situation while acting to preserve the peace.

If you don’t like that, you’re probably not going to like Hillary."

~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/07/25/1551930/-Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz-did-not-get-promoted-and-she-s-not-running-Hillary-s-campaign?detail=facebook
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6336 Posts
July 25 2016 16:59 GMT
#88772
On July 26 2016 01:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Seems pretty tinfoil hat like but I think it's pretty clear that Russia would be happy about a Trump presidency.

Whats wrong with peace in the World?
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9275 Posts
July 25 2016 17:00 GMT
#88773
Ask Putin
You're now breathing manually
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22078 Posts
July 25 2016 17:02 GMT
#88774
On July 26 2016 01:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"Being an honorary chair of a campaign—a position that involves no responsibilities, no employees, no budget, and no duties—is not a promotion from being chair of the DNC.

Being an honorary chair does not mean that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is “in charge of” Hillary Clinton’s campaign. It doesn’t mean anything. That is, unless you think President Obama’s 2012 campaign was run by actress Eva Longoria; or former Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee; or high school guidance counselor Loretta Harper—all of whom were among 24 people who served as honorary co-chairs of Obama’s 2012 campaign.

Being an honorary chair is not a job. It’s a courtesy. It’s the associate producer of politics. It’s an empty title handed out to help ease Debbie Wasserman Schultz out of her chair and make it slightly more palatable for her to leave a job she’d done (badly) for five years without putting up a fuss.

It’s a face-saving sop.

But it’s not nothing. It’s a gesture extended to a old friend in a bad moment. It’s a moment of being empathetic and trying to both ease the pain for everyone caught up in bad situation while acting to preserve the peace.

If you don’t like that, you’re probably not going to like Hillary."

~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/07/25/1551930/-Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz-did-not-get-promoted-and-she-s-not-running-Hillary-s-campaign?detail=facebook

The point is the timing. When someone steps down over impartiality issues you don't go around and hire her minutes later as the party she was partial for, its just stupid.

If you want to give her the face-saving sop then do it after the convention.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 25 2016 17:04 GMT
#88775
On July 26 2016 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 01:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"Being an honorary chair of a campaign—a position that involves no responsibilities, no employees, no budget, and no duties—is not a promotion from being chair of the DNC.

Being an honorary chair does not mean that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is “in charge of” Hillary Clinton’s campaign. It doesn’t mean anything. That is, unless you think President Obama’s 2012 campaign was run by actress Eva Longoria; or former Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee; or high school guidance counselor Loretta Harper—all of whom were among 24 people who served as honorary co-chairs of Obama’s 2012 campaign.

Being an honorary chair is not a job. It’s a courtesy. It’s the associate producer of politics. It’s an empty title handed out to help ease Debbie Wasserman Schultz out of her chair and make it slightly more palatable for her to leave a job she’d done (badly) for five years without putting up a fuss.

It’s a face-saving sop.

But it’s not nothing. It’s a gesture extended to a old friend in a bad moment. It’s a moment of being empathetic and trying to both ease the pain for everyone caught up in bad situation while acting to preserve the peace.

If you don’t like that, you’re probably not going to like Hillary."

~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/07/25/1551930/-Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz-did-not-get-promoted-and-she-s-not-running-Hillary-s-campaign?detail=facebook

The point is the timing. When someone steps down over impartiality issues you don't go around and hire her minutes later as the party she was partial for, its just stupid.

If you want to give her the face-saving sop then do it after the convention.


This. And given the severity of the issues surrounding DWS's resignation, she shouldn't have been given any position whatsoever.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 25 2016 17:04 GMT
#88776
On July 26 2016 01:59 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 01:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Seems pretty tinfoil hat like but I think it's pretty clear that Russia would be happy about a Trump presidency.

Whats wrong with peace in the World?


Nothing and we're largely living in one because, all valid criticism aside, the US hasn't gone off the deep end.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6336 Posts
July 25 2016 17:05 GMT
#88777
On July 26 2016 02:00 Sent. wrote:
Ask Putin

If Putin thinks Trump would be more reasonable and wouldn't bring the World on the edge of destruction then there you have it. Imagine the horror of working together to fix the World's problems instead of living in a cold war.

*shivers*
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 25 2016 17:06 GMT
#88778
On July 26 2016 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 01:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"Being an honorary chair of a campaign—a position that involves no responsibilities, no employees, no budget, and no duties—is not a promotion from being chair of the DNC.

Being an honorary chair does not mean that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is “in charge of” Hillary Clinton’s campaign. It doesn’t mean anything. That is, unless you think President Obama’s 2012 campaign was run by actress Eva Longoria; or former Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee; or high school guidance counselor Loretta Harper—all of whom were among 24 people who served as honorary co-chairs of Obama’s 2012 campaign.

Being an honorary chair is not a job. It’s a courtesy. It’s the associate producer of politics. It’s an empty title handed out to help ease Debbie Wasserman Schultz out of her chair and make it slightly more palatable for her to leave a job she’d done (badly) for five years without putting up a fuss.

It’s a face-saving sop.

But it’s not nothing. It’s a gesture extended to a old friend in a bad moment. It’s a moment of being empathetic and trying to both ease the pain for everyone caught up in bad situation while acting to preserve the peace.

If you don’t like that, you’re probably not going to like Hillary."

~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/07/25/1551930/-Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz-did-not-get-promoted-and-she-s-not-running-Hillary-s-campaign?detail=facebook

The point is the timing. When someone steps down over impartiality issues you don't go around and hire her minutes later as the party she was partial for, its just stupid.

If you want to give her the face-saving sop then do it after the convention.

Considering how hard it was to get rid of her for both Clinton and Obama, that position and its timing might have been part of the deal for her to step down.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6336 Posts
July 25 2016 17:07 GMT
#88779
On July 26 2016 02:04 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 01:59 zeo wrote:
On July 26 2016 01:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Seems pretty tinfoil hat like but I think it's pretty clear that Russia would be happy about a Trump presidency.

Whats wrong with peace in the World?


Nothing and we're largely living in one because, all valid criticism aside, the US hasn't gone off the deep end.

Has Obama given his Nobel Peace Prize back yet?
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 25 2016 17:08 GMT
#88780
On July 26 2016 02:07 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 02:04 Nyxisto wrote:
On July 26 2016 01:59 zeo wrote:
On July 26 2016 01:49 Nyxisto wrote:
Seems pretty tinfoil hat like but I think it's pretty clear that Russia would be happy about a Trump presidency.

Whats wrong with peace in the World?


Nothing and we're largely living in one because, all valid criticism aside, the US hasn't gone off the deep end.

Has Obama given his Nobel Peace Prize back yet?

He got that for not being George Bush
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