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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 417

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 09 2013 18:10 GMT
#8321
House Republicans are taming members’ expectations ahead of the debt limit showdown, signaling that they may not be able to extract significant concessions from Democrats.

A Friday memo to GOP members by Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) says “the House will act to prevent a default on our obligations before” the mid-October deadline the Obama administration has established. “House Republicans,” he says, “will demand fiscal reforms and pro-growth policies which put us on a path to balance in ten years in exchange for another increase in the debt limit.”

The language is vague — intentionally so, in order to maintain wiggle room for Republicans to avert a disastrous debt default. President Barack Obama has vowed not to pay a ransom to ensure the U.S. can meet its obligations.

If and when they do cave, Republicans will be hard-pressed to show their base they got something in return for raising the debt ceiling. In January, they got Senate Democrats to agree to pass a non-binding budget resolution. This time around, the possibilities for symbolic concessions range from a doomed Senate vote to delay or defund Obamacare or instructions to initiate the process of tax reform.

There are a number of demands rank-and-file Republicans have urged leaders to make which could genuinely complicate the battle, such as dollar-for-dollar spending cuts or unwinding Obamacare. Cantor’s memo mentioned neither. GOP members have also called on leadership not to bring up any debt limit bill that lacks the support of half the conference. Boehner hasn’t committed to this and Cantor didn’t mention it in his memo.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 09 2013 19:55 GMT
#8322
The Senate doesn't have enough votes, at this moment, to pass the Syria Resolution:

http://data.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/congress-syria-positions?rr
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DeltaX
Profile Joined August 2011
United States287 Posts
September 09 2013 21:57 GMT
#8323
On September 10 2013 02:55 HunterX11 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2013 02:03 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Putin saves Obama a political nightmare. Or maybe that Putin has just seen very compelling evidence. Either way.any port in a storm.


Syria offering to give up chemical weapons is probably going to deter the U.S. about as much as Iran offering to give up enriching uranium did.


I'm not sure if you remember, but when we proposed iran export all its enriched uranium, they didnt respond for like 10 months or something, then they offered to export the amount that they had 10 months ago, leaving the extra they had made since then, which would have been pointless for us since the point was to remove ALL the uranium.

Also, I would be surprised if the house or senate even vote on military action if they feel that this offer is genuine. Until it falls apart there are probably not enough votes in the house anyway as so few people there want a strike.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 09 2013 22:20 GMT
#8324
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid delays Senate test vote authorizing military force in Syria - @AP
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 09 2013 22:30 GMT
#8325
"Breaking Down the Falling Labor Share of U.S. Income"

Link

Good blog post for those interested on the topic. The TLDR:

Labor's share of income in the US and elsewhere is falling. The culprits are a sluggish economy, globalization, new technology, the imputed value of home ownership and faster depreciation cycles. Corporate profits are a factor too, depending on what time frame you are looking at.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 09 2013 23:03 GMT
#8326
haha 'may be a more long term phenomenon, tied to technology and globalization.' what a novel idea! Certainly no infamous 19th century political economist ever argued anything like that, nossir! What a concept
shikata ga nai
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
September 09 2013 23:21 GMT
#8327
On September 10 2013 06:57 DeltaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2013 02:55 HunterX11 wrote:
On September 10 2013 02:03 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Putin saves Obama a political nightmare. Or maybe that Putin has just seen very compelling evidence. Either way.any port in a storm.


Syria offering to give up chemical weapons is probably going to deter the U.S. about as much as Iran offering to give up enriching uranium did.


I'm not sure if you remember, but when we proposed iran export all its enriched uranium, they didnt respond for like 10 months or something, then they offered to export the amount that they had 10 months ago, leaving the extra they had made since then, which would have been pointless for us since the point was to remove ALL the uranium.

Also, I would be surprised if the house or senate even vote on military action if they feel that this offer is genuine. Until it falls apart there are probably not enough votes in the house anyway as so few people there want a strike.


Knowing the alternative to that deal (more sanctions) provided no result, perhaps a half-deal would have been better to nothing. At least half-deals build confidence in the negotiating process and gets people back to the table.

Then again, perhaps not negotiating at that moment was part of the plan, as it seems to be now.
Bora Pain minha porra!
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 09 2013 23:27 GMT
#8328
On September 10 2013 08:03 sam!zdat wrote:
haha 'may be a more long term phenomenon, tied to technology and globalization.' what a novel idea! Certainly no infamous 19th century political economist ever argued anything like that, nossir! What a concept

You still into him? I wasn't sure after you got all cranky over "the parable of water" i sent you
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 09 2013 23:42 GMT
#8329
On September 10 2013 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
"Breaking Down the Falling Labor Share of U.S. Income"

Link

Good blog post for those interested on the topic. The TLDR:

Labor's share of income in the US and elsewhere is falling. The culprits are a sluggish economy, globalization, new technology, the imputed value of home ownership and faster depreciation cycles. Corporate profits are a factor too, depending on what time frame you are looking at.

Some of the sluggish aspects the negatively hurt labor, out of the 33 shocking facts of the economy since Obama became president
#2 Since Obama has been president, seven out of every eight jobs that have been "created" in the U.S. economy have been part-time jobs.

#5 40 percent of all workers in the United States actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.

#7 During the first four years of Obama, the number of Americans "not in the labor force" soared by an astounding 8,332,000. That far exceeds any previous four year total.

I found the summary, when taken together, an illustrative look at the current anti-business measures, like regulation and vocal trashing of the nation's corporations, and the current lack of substantial pro-business measures.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-09 23:45:23
September 09 2013 23:43 GMT
#8330
eh? There was no marxian economics in your water parable...

edit: @above, the idea that all of that is about obama is just facile. These are all trends that have been happening for a long time (let's say 1974 just to pick a date)
shikata ga nai
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-09 23:53:58
September 09 2013 23:53 GMT
#8331
On September 10 2013 08:43 sam!zdat wrote:
eh? There was no marxian economics in your water parable...

Really? Seemed like it...

sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 09 2013 23:59 GMT
#8332
On September 10 2013 08:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2013 08:43 sam!zdat wrote:
eh? There was no marxian economics in your water parable...

Really? Seemed like it...



nah. It was vaguely leftist I guess but there was nothing particularly marxian about it. Sort of a naive optimistic anarchism about post-scarcity and stuff iirc.
shikata ga nai
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 00:15:51
September 10 2013 00:04 GMT
#8333
On September 10 2013 08:59 sam!zdat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2013 08:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On September 10 2013 08:43 sam!zdat wrote:
eh? There was no marxian economics in your water parable...

Really? Seemed like it...



nah. It was vaguely leftist I guess but there was nothing particularly marxian about it. Sort of a naive optimistic anarchism about post-scarcity and stuff iirc.

Well, you're more the expert than I

Edit: The Parable of Water
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 10 2013 14:13 GMT
#8334
On September 10 2013 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
"Breaking Down the Falling Labor Share of U.S. Income"

Link

Good blog post for those interested on the topic. The TLDR:

Labor's share of income in the US and elsewhere is falling. The culprits are a sluggish economy, globalization, new technology, the imputed value of home ownership and faster depreciation cycles. Corporate profits are a factor too, depending on what time frame you are looking at.

Just going with the breakdown due to limited time to read:

Has the economy been sluggish since ~1990? If I'm not mistaken, that's when capital started noticeably jumping ahead of labor. Globalization is nothing new, and we've had some form of it since the 1600s. Why didn't the 50s, 60s, and 70s, breed the same level of inequality? How is this era of those "culprits," that we find in all other eras since 1850, different?

About the only difference is the importance of home ownership, but even that seems dubious. I can't see the justification that these are market forces alone that have caused this gap to widen.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
September 10 2013 16:13 GMT
#8335
On September 10 2013 23:13 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2013 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
"Breaking Down the Falling Labor Share of U.S. Income"

Link

Good blog post for those interested on the topic. The TLDR:

Labor's share of income in the US and elsewhere is falling. The culprits are a sluggish economy, globalization, new technology, the imputed value of home ownership and faster depreciation cycles. Corporate profits are a factor too, depending on what time frame you are looking at.

Just going with the breakdown due to limited time to read:

Has the economy been sluggish since ~1990? If I'm not mistaken, that's when capital started noticeably jumping ahead of labor. Globalization is nothing new, and we've had some form of it since the 1600s. Why didn't the 50s, 60s, and 70s, breed the same level of inequality? How is this era of those "culprits," that we find in all other eras since 1850, different?

About the only difference is the importance of home ownership, but even that seems dubious. I can't see the justification that these are market forces alone that have caused this gap to widen.

Going off the chart that's given, there was some volatility in the 90's but labor's share didn't fall over that decade, it rose.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This isn't about inequality, it's about labor's share of income (labor can earn min wage or a $100mm salary). Regardless, globalization wasn't as powerful a force back in the 50's or whenever. It used to be much more expensive to ship goods and services over seas and many big economies like China and India were closed to the US. Because of that and new technology workers have a lot less bargaining power - an employer can say no to a pay raise and ship the job over seas or automate the job.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 16:53:41
September 10 2013 16:52 GMT
#8336
How is that not about inequality? It says that people with capital are taking larger and larger shares of income. It only went up in the late 90s.

It goes along with how workers are completely denigrated by one particular side of our politics right now. Less money and less respect for the middle class. More veneration of the 1%.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 10 2013 16:55 GMT
#8337
On September 11 2013 01:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2013 23:13 aksfjh wrote:
On September 10 2013 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
"Breaking Down the Falling Labor Share of U.S. Income"

Link

Good blog post for those interested on the topic. The TLDR:

Labor's share of income in the US and elsewhere is falling. The culprits are a sluggish economy, globalization, new technology, the imputed value of home ownership and faster depreciation cycles. Corporate profits are a factor too, depending on what time frame you are looking at.

Just going with the breakdown due to limited time to read:

Has the economy been sluggish since ~1990? If I'm not mistaken, that's when capital started noticeably jumping ahead of labor. Globalization is nothing new, and we've had some form of it since the 1600s. Why didn't the 50s, 60s, and 70s, breed the same level of inequality? How is this era of those "culprits," that we find in all other eras since 1850, different?

About the only difference is the importance of home ownership, but even that seems dubious. I can't see the justification that these are market forces alone that have caused this gap to widen.

Going off the chart that's given, there was some volatility in the 90's but labor's share didn't fall over that decade, it rose.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This isn't about inequality, it's about labor's share of income (labor can earn min wage or a $100mm salary). Regardless, globalization wasn't as powerful a force back in the 50's or whenever. It used to be much more expensive to ship goods and services over seas and many big economies like China and India were closed to the US. Because of that and new technology workers have a lot less bargaining power - an employer can say no to a pay raise and ship the job over seas or automate the job.

I meant the inequality between labor and capital, not "income." It was probably the wrong use.

Globalization in the 60s and 70s was stronger than in the 1900s-30s, as there were fewer tariffs and wars obstructing trade. Not to mention the widespread use of air travel, creating a new method of transporting goods, services, and people abroad.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
September 10 2013 16:57 GMT
#8338
On September 11 2013 01:52 DoubleReed wrote:
How is that not about inequality? It says that people with capital are taking larger and larger shares of income. It only went up in the late 90s.

It goes along with how workers are completely denigrated by one particular side of our politics right now. Less money and less respect for the middle class. More veneration of the 1%.

? Because respecting and honoring success is now a bad thing.

Welcome to the unreasonable hate engine that is class warfare.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 10 2013 17:01 GMT
#8339
On September 11 2013 01:57 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 01:52 DoubleReed wrote:
How is that not about inequality? It says that people with capital are taking larger and larger shares of income. It only went up in the late 90s.

It goes along with how workers are completely denigrated by one particular side of our politics right now. Less money and less respect for the middle class. More veneration of the 1%.

? Because respecting and honoring success is now a bad thing.

Welcome to the unreasonable hate engine that is class warfare.

So, anybody that has money has it due to "success"?
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
September 10 2013 17:03 GMT
#8340
On September 11 2013 01:57 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 01:52 DoubleReed wrote:
How is that not about inequality? It says that people with capital are taking larger and larger shares of income. It only went up in the late 90s.

It goes along with how workers are completely denigrated by one particular side of our politics right now. Less money and less respect for the middle class. More veneration of the 1%.

? Because respecting and honoring success is now a bad thing.

Welcome to the unreasonable hate engine that is class warfare.


Workers can be goddamn successful. And you accuse me of class warfare? They're the ones that actually get shit done.
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