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On July 06 2016 23:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2016 14:28 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 06 2016 13:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2016 12:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
it looks like we have entered the bargaining stage of grief
i for one think thats progress Is that referencing something or just a random thought fart? Its definitely referencing the anti-Hillary crowd  Do all the lies really not bother any of you? Politicians being flexible is kind of part of the job. Its kind of like wondering why cops aren't pacifists. But no, for the most part, politicians are not where my moral compass is set to. Politicians are representatives to enable and prevent laws and regulations that best helps me as a person live my day to day lives. Here's a short list of terrible things about Bernie: 15 Trillion in addition to an economy still recovering is bad. Ignoring genocide just because its brown people is bad. Saying your anti-war unless they build warplanes in your state is bad. Bernie Sanders, as a politician, is bad. The main people agreeing with Bernie supporters are conservatives. Think about that for one moment. Think about the fact that the GOP and Bernie supporters are getting excited over the same things and are attacking the DNC for the same things over and over. Bernie has been one of the worse things to happen to progressive politics on all fronts. Fiscally, morally, and politically. Why? Because (just like the GOP) Bernie supporters act like politicians should be people who enforce and create laws to decree how we should morally act with each other. It is fundamentalism in nature, even if there is no religion behind it. Its moralism pretending to be above it all when in reality they spend all their energy enacting the same plans of attacks and vitriolic spewing that the Tea Party has been doing for 10+ years now. So you know why people like Hilary? Because she's the lesser of two evils in this primary. Because she's the only actual democrat in this primary. Because she is the only one who will do what it takes and twist every rule to ensure democratic victories. Because she's not a moralist. Because she cares more about what her constituents want more than what her own moral opinions want. Because her goal is to represent the party, not pretend that she's above it all. She's been investigated for Bengazi for nearly a decade, and after a decade of investigation they STILL don't have anything on her. Spend a decade digging into ANYONE'S past and you'll find something to indict them with. But not her. Why? Because she's smart and she knows how to play the game. When I want to pick who I want to lead the main superpower of the planet--I go for who I think is smart and capable, not the one who simply tries to yell the loudest.
Man, I think we have another oneofthem in the making in Thieving Magpie with the mind-numbingly biased anti-Bernie assertions - might as well just start talking about sandernistas too. I mean, I can see that Bernie is not the kind of viable GE candidate that we'd really like (and ultimately I'd rather vote for Hillary than Trump) but the anti-Bernie and pro-Hillary stuff you Hillary supporters manage to put forward is just a laughably disingenuous fake form of realpolitik.
The reason the Republican party has had a shitty time of making their campaign to bring down Hillary work is because her shittiness stems mostly from the same issues that would make the Republican party itself look like morons. They could go after trade agreements, warhawking (with a Wolfowitz Doctrine like approach), Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc., but guess which side would end up looking even stupider if they emphasized those issues? So they grasp at straws with something like Benghazi instead and make themselves look stupid. With the emails they got a credible claim of wrongdoing out of the FBI, and despite the rationalizations of her most ardent supporters that does not look good on her. She's plenty dirty and it's really not hard to see that - what's more impressive is the ability of a lot of her supporters to acknowledge that and of her detractors to go after the right issues.
And I'm sure that the Republican investigation has gone on for a decade when Benghazi happened in 2012.
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On July 06 2016 23:16 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Now we, as a huge population, we easily have the voice to get this solution moving,
we do?
but it still seems that congress after the two full years of non stop bitching about police, nothing has yet to change.
if its not 2 years of protests and nonstop bitching then what is it?
hope your answer isn't just more, better bitching
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I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up
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On July 07 2016 00:08 LegalLord wrote:With the emails they got a credible claim of wrongdoing out of the FBI, and despite the rationalizations of her most ardent supporters that does not look good on her. She's plenty dirty and it's really not hard to see that - what's more impressive is the ability of a lot of her supporters to acknowledge that and of her detractors to go after the right issues.
And I'm sure that the Republican investigation has gone on for a decade when Benghazi happened in 2012.
What about this email thing has shown her to be dirty? She lied about emails. It's not like they uncovered some sorta weapons deal with Saudi Arabia.
EDIT: Another thing worth pointing out: Bernie has not even slightly attacked Clinton on the issue of the FBI investigation. If he intended to attempt a take down of our divine goddess, he'd have done it by now. He has bowed out, even if he's still pouting. This is the leadership Bernie contributes: Pouting when things don't go his way. His entire movement has fizzled because he has no idea how to move forward when he runs into a wall.
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On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up
Its like all the work with community policing done after the 70s and early 80s is undone. And the worst part is that those guys might not be convicted. Another one of the police is the Freddie Gray decided to take a bench trial, after the judge acquitted the other two. So it could turn out that no one was responsible for the death of Freddie Gray, despite him being in police custody.
If people feel this helpless against the power of the state and have no remedy, it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
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On July 07 2016 00:33 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 00:08 LegalLord wrote:With the emails they got a credible claim of wrongdoing out of the FBI, and despite the rationalizations of her most ardent supporters that does not look good on her. She's plenty dirty and it's really not hard to see that - what's more impressive is the ability of a lot of her supporters to acknowledge that and of her detractors to go after the right issues.
And I'm sure that the Republican investigation has gone on for a decade when Benghazi happened in 2012. What about this email thing has shown her to be dirty? She lied about emails. It's not like they uncovered some sorta weapons deal with Saudi Arabia. EDIT: Another thing worth pointing out: Bernie has not even slightly attacked Clinton on the issue of the FBI investigation. If he intended to attempt a take down of our divine goddess, he'd have done it by now. He has bowed out, even if he's still pouting. This is the leadership Bernie contributes: Pouting when things don't go his way. His entire movement has fizzled because he has no idea how to move forward when he runs into a wall.
She lied about dealing with classified documents and possibly compromised them to foreign agents. That might be weak enough to rationalize away but it is definitely pretty bad. Any normal person would at the very least get their clearance revoked, and likely go to prison for that kind of negligence.
Bernie may have failed to be the right kind of candidate to bring his message to fruition, but his issues are by no means going away any time soon. They will be relevant as quickly as the next election. The failure of the messenger doesn't mean that the sentiment that made that message popular goes away.
On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up
Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up.
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On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up.
uh theres been plenty of "real issue" examples that are easy to find if you aren't lazy and simply expecting to be spoon fed the entire case against police immunity to criminal charges for gross misconduct
people make a big deal of shitty examples, but the only ones using those shitty examples as evidence that the problem isn't worth dealing with at all are the ones who tend not to mind that minorities are getting brutalized, usually because of personal prejudice / "they comprise disproportionate crime and kill each other all the time" -> (they deserve it) (the usually unspoken implication)
not going to pretend poor minority culture (as well as poor white culture) isn't a big issue in general, but they don't have the legal right to kill people on our tax money... cops do...
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On July 07 2016 00:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Its like all the work with community policing done after the 70s and early 80s is undone. And the worst part is that those guys might not be convicted. Another one of the police is the Freddie Gray decided to take a bench trial, after the judge acquitted the other two. So it could turn out that no one was responsible for the death of Freddie Gray, despite him being in police custody. If people feel this helpless against the power of the state and have no remedy, it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
The first step is realizing, that we, the people have no power in this country! It's irrelevant who'll be the next president, that whole voting thing only exists to give us the idea, that we have freedom of choice (we don't). The real owners of this country, the big wealthy fucks, that control everything (media, politicians,...) don't give 2 shits about us and that's why it'll only get worse.
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On July 07 2016 01:13 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 00:39 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Its like all the work with community policing done after the 70s and early 80s is undone. And the worst part is that those guys might not be convicted. Another one of the police is the Freddie Gray decided to take a bench trial, after the judge acquitted the other two. So it could turn out that no one was responsible for the death of Freddie Gray, despite him being in police custody. If people feel this helpless against the power of the state and have no remedy, it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The first step is realizing, that we, the people have no power in this country! It's irrelevant who'll be the next president, that whole voting thing only exists to give us the idea, that we have freedom of choice. The real owners of this country, the big wealthy fucks, that control everything (media, politicians,...) don't give 2 shits about us and that's why it'll only get worse.
okay
next step?
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On July 07 2016 01:13 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 00:39 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Its like all the work with community policing done after the 70s and early 80s is undone. And the worst part is that those guys might not be convicted. Another one of the police is the Freddie Gray decided to take a bench trial, after the judge acquitted the other two. So it could turn out that no one was responsible for the death of Freddie Gray, despite him being in police custody. If people feel this helpless against the power of the state and have no remedy, it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The first step is realizing, that we, the people have no power in this country! It's irrelevant who'll be the next president, that whole voting thing only exists to give us the idea, that we have freedom of choice. The real owners of this country, the big wealthy fucks, that control everything (media, politicians,...) don't give 2 shits about us and that's why it'll only get worse.
How did Trump become the nominee?
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On July 07 2016 01:10 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up. uh theres been plenty of "real issue" examples that are easy to find if you aren't lazy and simply expecting to be spoon fed the entire case against police immunity to criminal charges for gross misconduct
That's not the problem. The problem is when you don't filter the shitty cases from the real cases, people start to wonder whether you have any real cases at all.
On July 07 2016 01:10 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up. people make a big deal of shitty examples, but the only ones using those shitty examples as evidence that the problem isn't worth dealing with at all are the ones who tend not to mind that minorities are getting brutalized, usually because of personal prejudice / "they comprise disproportionate crime and kill each other all the time" -> (they deserve it) (the usually unspoken implication)
Not really true. A lot of people are somewhere in the middle and could be swayed by a good argument, but will be deterred by shitty arguments and shitty fake abuse cases. There's a huge middle ground between "all police officers are shitty and even shitty cases for abuse are valid" and "police officers are always right and all cases of abuse are shitty and fake."
On July 07 2016 01:10 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up. not going to pretend poor minority culture (as well as poor white culture) isn't a big issue in general, but they don't have the legal right to kill people on our tax money... cops do...
You don't get to fix that by acting shitty about it or by issuing universal condemnations of our law enforcement. A lot of people respect the organization that protects people from crime and will not be interested in the terrible way a lot of the minority community has gone about addressing this issue.
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okay
next step?
Step 2: Homer J. Simpson put it best:
“Kids, You Tried Your Best and You Failed Miserably. The Lesson Is Never Try!” 
How did Trump become the nominee?
Trump is one of the 1%ers, that control everything! Nothing will change! You think he'll build a wall?? Ask those poor suckers, who "graduated" Trump University about broken promises! 
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On July 07 2016 01:20 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:10 kapibara-san wrote:On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up. uh theres been plenty of "real issue" examples that are easy to find if you aren't lazy and simply expecting to be spoon fed the entire case against police immunity to criminal charges for gross misconduct That's not the problem. The problem is when you don't filter the shitty cases from the real cases, people start to wonder whether you have any real cases at all.
yea and like i said it's an issue of laziness for those people to not figure it out on their own if they had any intention of giving the issue a fair shot (many dont)
On July 07 2016 01:20 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:10 kapibara-san wrote:On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up. people make a big deal of shitty examples, but the only ones using those shitty examples as evidence that the problem isn't worth dealing with at all are the ones who tend not to mind that minorities are getting brutalized, usually because of personal prejudice / "they comprise disproportionate crime and kill each other all the time" -> (they deserve it) (the usually unspoken implication) Not really true. A lot of people are somewhere in the middle and could be swayed by a good argument, but will be deterred by shitty arguments and shitty fake abuse cases. There's a huge middle ground between "all police officers are shitty and even shitty cases for abuse are valid" and "police officers are always right and all cases of abuse are shitty and fake."
still laziness to not look for the good, balanced arguments. still looking to be spoon-fed
On July 07 2016 01:20 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:10 kapibara-san wrote:On July 07 2016 01:02 LegalLord wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Given that they often defend a person who punched a police officer and got a response as an "unarmed minority brutalized by the police" it's not hard to see why people might not buy their argument. They can't self-filter the justified from unjustified cases and that severely undermines any real issues they try to bring up. not going to pretend poor minority culture (as well as poor white culture) isn't a big issue in general, but they don't have the legal right to kill people on our tax money... cops do... You don't get to fix that by acting shitty about it or by issuing universal condemnations of our law enforcement. A lot of people respect the organization that protects people from crime and will not be interested in the terrible way a lot of the minority community has gone about addressing this issue.
i'm going to talk about this issue in general
if you are actually considering whether or not you care about something, you go straight to looking for the most intelligent commentary on the subject. if you find lots of unintelligent commentary, you brush it off and keep looking. it's a sign of emotional weakness to take that shit personally and generalize dumb shit to being the entire story of the issue. maybe some people get frustrated and give up... that's impatience. that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 90% of everything is shit, if you use that fact to disregard the fact that the 10% exists, then you're just lazy.
i'm lazy so i'm a hypocrite and i don't actually intend on putting much effort into stopping police misconduct, but in a way, you're demonstrating the issue on a meta-level. lots of people respond badly to the bad responses... doesn't mean you should ignore the good responses of the people who look for the good responses. and by all means, if you find them, propagate them. shitting on the shit is just easy and boring. dumb responses to everything are inevitable. it's not a good reason not to look for good responses.
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On July 07 2016 01:13 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:13 thePunGun wrote:On July 07 2016 00:39 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2016 00:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'd like anyone who's said that minorities made up stuff about police brutality to please stand up Its like all the work with community policing done after the 70s and early 80s is undone. And the worst part is that those guys might not be convicted. Another one of the police is the Freddie Gray decided to take a bench trial, after the judge acquitted the other two. So it could turn out that no one was responsible for the death of Freddie Gray, despite him being in police custody. If people feel this helpless against the power of the state and have no remedy, it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The first step is realizing, that we, the people have no power in this country! It's irrelevant who'll be the next president, that whole voting thing only exists to give us the idea, that we have freedom of choice. The real owners of this country, the big wealthy fucks, that control everything (media, politicians,...) don't give 2 shits about us and that's why it'll only get worse. okay next step?
Get police to understand that the reason that everyone is angry at police nation wide is that they refuse to call out their own. I just listened to a radio interview with a police officer about the video and the host couldn't' even get the office to say it looked bad. The officer was so interested in protecting himself and "police" that he couldn't just say "that looks bad."
I don't know how they expect people to continue to have faith in police when it is so clear they protect their own before the communities they work for. This is how terrible civil unrest starts.
But absent that, a third party agency in every state that monitors the police and forces them to report on the use of force.
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in a nutshell, if you watch police shoot a restrained guy on the ground, and you look at the history of controversial police killings w/ all acquittals, but you decide its not an issue because people make fusses out of surface-level-similar non-issues
youre dumb and lazy and probably weren't going to be a part of the solution anyway
furthermore, if you look at the people who go to extremes and ask for entirely impractical solutions and display extreme antipathy towards police, and decide that because such dumb people ask for such dumb things, there's no way we could ever find an actual practical, decent solution
you're dumb and lazy and probably weren't going to be part of the solution anyway
- someone who's dumb and lazy and isn't going to be a part of the solution
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Man, I sat in on 7th Circuit oral arguments today and lemme tell you, Judge Posner is brutal.
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On July 07 2016 02:04 farvacola wrote:
Man, I sat in on 7th Circuit oral arguments today and lemme tell you, Judge Posner is brutal.
What case?
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On July 07 2016 01:41 kapibara-san wrote:
in a nutshell, if you watch police shoot a restrained guy on the ground, and you look at the history of controversial police killings w/ all acquittals, but you decide its not an issue because people make fusses out of surface-level-similar non-issues
youre dumb and lazy and probably weren't going to be a part of the solution anyway
furthermore, if you look at the people who go to extremes and ask for entirely impractical solutions and display extreme antipathy towards police, and decide that because such dumb people ask for such dumb things, there's no way we could ever find an actual practical, decent solution
you're dumb and lazy and probably weren't going to be part of the solution anyway
- someone who's dumb and lazy and isn't going to be a part of the solution
The solution is obvious and has been addressed many times...
just a few examples: + Show Spoiler +
It's not about intellect or laziness, it's about dollars...If you really want change, the only way I see, are lawsuits! You'll only get the attention of those in charge, if you hit them where it hurts, their wallets!
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I saw a funny campaign sign today in someone's yard:
"Everybody sucks
2016"
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On July 07 2016 02:04 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 01:41 kapibara-san wrote:
in a nutshell, if you watch police shoot a restrained guy on the ground, and you look at the history of controversial police killings w/ all acquittals, but you decide its not an issue because people make fusses out of surface-level-similar non-issues
youre dumb and lazy and probably weren't going to be a part of the solution anyway
furthermore, if you look at the people who go to extremes and ask for entirely impractical solutions and display extreme antipathy towards police, and decide that because such dumb people ask for such dumb things, there's no way we could ever find an actual practical, decent solution
you're dumb and lazy and probably weren't going to be part of the solution anyway
- someone who's dumb and lazy and isn't going to be a part of the solution The solution is obvious and has been addressed many times... just a few examples: + Show Spoiler +It's not about intellect or laziness, it's about dollars...If you really want change, the only way I see, are lawsuits! You'll only get the attention of those in charge, if you hit them where it hurts, their wallets!
nice, best post from you so far
too lazy to sue though; ligation sounds painful
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EPT
