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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
Also, found this in an article: Ms. Lynch said she had decided this spring to defer to the recommendations of her staff and the F.B.I. because her status as a political appointee sitting in judgment on a politically charged case would raise questions of a conflict of interest. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html Who was it that said I wear a tinfoil hat? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
i for one think thats progress | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24053 Posts
On July 06 2016 12:38 ticklishmusic wrote: it looks like we have entered the bargaining stage of grief i for one think thats progress Is that referencing something or just a random thought fart? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 06 2016 12:38 ticklishmusic wrote: it looks like we have entered the bargaining stage of grief i for one think thats progress Healing is a long process. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On July 06 2016 08:26 xDaunt wrote: In theory, they could go after the previous SoS's presuming that the statutes of limitation haven't run. But per my previous posts, their conduct was very different from Hillary's, and not as egregious. They don't have to prove harm. That's not one of the elements of the statute. "Gross negligence" is merely the standard of intent. It's like negligence, but a step up in terms of how stupid the action was. The whole idea of requiring evidence of intentional misconduct to bring charges sounding in negligence is completely asinine, which is why Comey is attracting a lot of flack for what he said. Saw this my newsfeed: Lawrence Reed 5 hrs · What's the difference between "extremely careless" and "gross negligence"? Nothing, unless you have connections in high places. Isn't that exactly what you said? | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
about that... House Speaker Paul Ryan unloaded on James Comey Tuesday night, threatening to call the FBI director to testify before Congress about his role in the investigation of Hillary Clinton's State Department emails. Comey announced on Tuesday that the FBI would not recommend charges against Clinton for using a private email server to conduct business as Secretary of State. "We're going to have hearings," Ryan said in an interview with Fox News' Megyn Kelly, objecting to Comey's choice to not take questions from the media after the announcement. "There are a lot of unanswered questions here, Megyn, that need to get answers." Ryan criticized Comey for failing to find Clinton worthy of prosecution, despite calling her "extremely careless" in the way she handled the classified information. "What really just mystifies me is the case he makes and then the conclusion he draws," Ryan said. "This certainly does underscore the belief that the Clintons live above the law." "He shredded the case she had been making all year long," he added. "I think we need to know more, quite frankly." Ryan demanded the FBI release its full findings to the public. Source | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
I just can't. I expect no less at this point given how desperate they were with Benghazi but ugh. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On July 06 2016 13:26 GoTuNk! wrote: Saw this my newsfeed: Lawrence Reed 5 hrs · What's the difference between "extremely careless" and "gross negligence"? Nothing, unless you have connections in high places. Isn't that exactly what you said? Yes. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On July 06 2016 13:13 GreenHorizons wrote: Is that referencing something or just a random thought fart? Its definitely referencing the anti-Hillary crowd  | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24053 Posts
On July 06 2016 14:28 Thieving Magpie wrote: Its definitely referencing the anti-Hillary crowd Do all the lies really not bother any of you? | ||
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Introvert
United States4999 Posts
On July 06 2016 13:56 ticklishmusic wrote: Ryan is desperate to salvage his future after chaining himself to Trump. The only way he gets out of this without smelling of Trumpster fire is if Trump wins, and he's doing everything he can to increase that 20% chance. I can't even call it partisanship at this point. Trump is incapable of staying on message. This is why I don't buy the "Trump can win" argument. I don't know if Trump will get a lift from the polls out of this, but I'd be willing to bet that if he did, he couldn't keep it. I mean, take his statements tonight about Saddam Hussein. I don't normally post such things, but this was just too good to pass up when you mentioned Ryan, who is now living in his own personal hell. This is Ryan's (and many others) reaction every time he opens his mouth. He can't keep it together, and when it goes belly up, he'll blame someone else. + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/CalebHowe/status/750520413046833152 | ||
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Evotroid
Hungary176 Posts
On July 06 2016 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote: Do all the lies really not bother any of you? Then again, show us that Trump is more trustworthy. I get it, you are still angry that she cheated Bernie out of the nomination. But you are beating a dead horse now, he went into the game, everyone knew it was an uphill battle, he fought hard, brave and true... and he lost. Did it ever occur to you, that by constantly fighting against Hillary, you are effectively fighting against Bernie now? You do realise that he may have a small bargaining power with Hillary for his support, but if the reps win, it will be mostly the polar opposite of what he stood for. Here is a bargain, if you stop pouring the salt into the thread with these zero content posts like this (seriously, who do you think in this thread is not perfectly aware of her lies and decided that she would be still the better choice?) I offer you my sig space, for whatever message you deem worthy of it, and tl mods deem appropriate. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On July 06 2016 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote: Do all the lies really not bother any of you? its about magnitude of bothering, and of the 2 likely candidates, she bothers most people hoping for stability and progress, even if delayed, way less your PTSD over losing the bernie v hillary battle, as noted above, is getting pretty old large democratic republics are slow to change, and it's a double-edged sword... but you have to realize that if the process were more volatile, we might've ended up with a trump to bring our nation to failure or to becoming a more blatantly bloodthristy, war-profiteering empire long before this point claiming that the process is unfair exactly in the way that it didn't turn out the way you wanted is just a way to petulantly express your entitlement to everyone prioritizing issues the same way you do if a candidate with bernie's idealism and relative clean hands came in better able to articulate their plans, better able to address the concerns of their moderate detractors, and more politically savvy and economically savvy overall, they could've beaten hillary despite the establishment and superdelegate system. bernie was not these things. but here you are beating the dead horse that you think hillary's flaws are worse than bernie's, with the offputting propensity to downplay bernie's glaring weaknesses (lack of understanding of financial systems and institutions, questionable amount of promises of social programs, questionable tax plan no matter how much the berniebro echo chambers insisted they were practical and easily implementable... + his tone-deaf politically unsavvy campaign trajectory of essentially joining his own echo chamber instead of attempting to appeal to moderates more) the idealism has to be tempered at some point, and he went way beyond that point. in contrast, hillary's cynical playing of the game is almost refreshing... especially given how scary trump truly is... he keeps praising violent dictators and he's the 2nd most likely person to become commander-in-chief...? that bothers me, and many others, way way more than hillary's bloody hands and duplicitous mouth, and that should say something to you as well trump is the villain and hillary is the hero america deserves right now, and the one it can best work with right now. we don't need a messiah, we need someone to stop the crazy guy from crashing this plane, even if the emergency landing might be messy. or whatever. trump supporters idealize nationalism, sovereignty, and essentialist cultural purity to the point where i wouldnt be surprised if they took his election as a go-ahead to go full fascist. not that i'm even unequivocally against fascism, but trump-flavored fascism is frightening as hell. treating diplomacy like a series of real-estate business deals where he can walk away from the table when he doesn't get his way + bullying groups/nations with higher concentrations of poor, misguided, and fully crazy people indiscriminately without sympathy... this is not the way to greatness. this is the way to literal dissolution of the union, perhaps civil war, perhaps being part of the catalyst of ww3 in the long run, if i were looking in from outside, it doesnt matter to me if america fails and becomes reborn through violent revolution, but i don't wanna be a part of it. i'm too soft of a person fundamentally. so's our generation in general. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12472 Posts
On July 06 2016 18:05 kapibara-san wrote: in contrast, hillary's cynical playing of the game is almost refreshing... I suppose it's refreshing if it's the first time you're confronted with politics. GH may be getting old but the way some people can't admit when he has a point... It's not getting any younger. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
most people's point is that it's not enough of a point to become like GH maybe refreshing was the wrong word... but then again i'll stand by it. i'll still take a deeper breath of fumes that seem less noxious in general. uncompromising idealists scare me more than savvy politicians unless they get everything entirely on-point. especially because realistically, congress would gridlock bernie's plans even more than they gridlocked obama's. on that note ungerrymander the fucking house of reps please http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/27/ratfcked-the-influence-of-redistricting | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24053 Posts
On July 06 2016 17:33 Evotroid wrote: Then again, show us that Trump is more trustworthy. I get it, you are still angry that she cheated Bernie out of the nomination. But you are beating a dead horse now, he went into the game, everyone knew it was an uphill battle, he fought hard, brave and true... and he lost. Did it ever occur to you, that by constantly fighting against Hillary, you are effectively fighting against Bernie now? You do realise that he may have a small bargaining power with Hillary for his support, but if the reps win, it will be mostly the polar opposite of what he stood for. Here is a bargain, if you stop pouring the salt into the thread with these zero content posts like this (seriously, who do you think in this thread is not perfectly aware of her lies and decided that she would be still the better choice?) I offer you my sig space, for whatever message you deem worthy of it, and tl mods deem appropriate. The choice isn't Hillary or Trump, it's Hillary or Bernie and the trustworthy issue is not even a contest. If her supporters acknowledged she was lying the whole time, instead of trying to carry water for her by spreading the lies, we wouldn't be here, They still have an opportunity to fix their mistakes, so I'm not going to let the "well it's not like we have a choice" argument go unanswered. We do have a choice, it's on Hillary supporters to make though. As for the consequences of a Trump presidency vs a Clinton presidency I think people are more likely to realize how broken the system is under Trump than under Clinton and we're running out of time to wise up. Now I won't be voting for Trump myself, but if he wins, Hillary and her supporters will have no one to blame but themselves. EDIT: I can understand the "well her lies don't bother us as much as something about Bernie" but there should be a lot of apologies going out for calling people all sorts of names for pointing out she's lying and it not being acknowledged by her supporters. She looked at the American people on multiple occasions and lied straight to their face and called the people saying she was lying part of her "vast right-wing conspiracy" narrative, they backed her on it. Bernie notwithstanding, that should piss them off. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On July 06 2016 18:35 GreenHorizons wrote: We do have a choice, it's on Hillary supporters to make though. . you really don't understand people emotionally if you think that hillary supporters have any chance of suddenly flipping to bernie after so much uncompromising antagonism from his camp do you really not realize that this type of accusation is just grouped into the lump of "petulant berniebro complaints about hillary" that have been coming out for over half a year now? people don't change their minds this way. you're delusional in the exact same way bernie was delusional, thinking that doubling down on the same talking points and failing to address the appeal of moderation could have a remote chance of serving as a path to victory. "stop prioritizing what you prioritize and suddenly prioritze what i prioritize," as if that doesnt take a dramatic scrambling of one's neocortex it also happens that stably employed older demographics have more stable neocortices to match their desire for stability... and the utterances of yours won't increase their plasticity | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4424 Posts
in contrast, hillary's cynical playing of the game is almost refreshing... especially given how scary trump truly is... he keeps praising violent dictators and he's the 2nd most likely person to become commander-in-chief...? TBH better to "praise" violent dictators than forcefully remove them as the USA has done in Iraq and more recently Libya.Both countries now a cluster-fuck, refugees created en-mass.Clinton was secretary of state when Libya was destroyed so a vote for her is a vote for more of the same.Trump is more of a wildcard but in the end he will most likely continue the military expansionist agenda or be taken out.We are dealing with very powerful interest groups here. If we go back to Bush Jr, what he said he would do and what he actually did were two totally different things.Observe this debate clip from 2000.In the end, totally controlled by the military industrial complex and people who profit from war.Blackwater, Weapon manufacturers, construction companies that "rebuild" these countries that have been destroyed. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On July 06 2016 18:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: TBH better to "praise" violent dictators than forcefully remove them as the USA has done in Iraq and more recently Libya.Both countries now a cluster-fuck, refugees created en-mass.Clinton was secretary of state when Libya was destroyed so a vote for her is a vote for more of the same.Trump is more of a wildcard but in the end he will most likely continue the military expansionist agenda or be taken out.We are dealing with very powerful interest groups here. If we go back to Bush Jr, what he said he would do and what he actually did were two totally different things.Observe this debate clip from 2000.In the end, totally controlled by the military industrial complex and people who profit from war.Blackwater, Weapon manufacturers, construction companies that "rebuild" these countries that have been destroyed. yea that's an ugly reality of many political systems; powerful groups with money have easy paths to entrench their power and it will always take disproportionate effort to uproot such groups that doesn't make trump a better choice than hillary if you just wanna live your blood-stained-by-proxy american life out i don't like any of it but i can swallow that pill and accept the fact that unless i leave the U.S. entirely or go off the grid, i will always be complicit in benefiting from exploitation (and not even benefiting as much as in certain eras, given recent trends in the elite to concentrate wealth more and spend less wealth placating us plebs)... and global systems are so interconnected that leaving the U.S. might not be enough anyway i'm not pretending i'm voting for a better future, i just calculate the EV of a trump victory to be like <10% * the outcome america somehow ends up better and >90% * america accelerates to shit even more quickly i don't take responsibility for america; i just reflect it... self-interested to a fault and too jaded in the entrenchment of its own faults to believe i have the power to change them | ||
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