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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4036
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:52 SK.Testie wrote: I'll look up on it, thanks. But I would have assumed that 'no torturing people' would have been among them. the geneva conventions cover warfare. They don't cover the criminal justice system. In order to qualify as a combatant under the conventions, there are certain requirements (not that hard to meet for actual soldiers); many terrorists do not satisfy those, and hence are classified "unlawful combatants", and/or they're simply criminals. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:56 farvacola wrote: Perhaps that's why I didn't mention morality. Perhaps there's a pragmatic, outcome driven reason behind not torturing and killing innocents? One can only wonder Maybe, but history has shown than the more brutal methodology produces results. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:52 SolaR- wrote: No, but you can punish them into submission where any threat that they could ever pose to you is futile. Will never happen. You just doom your kids you violence because their children would be told of the terrible crimes committed against them. Like people tried this shit in history. It failed. Why we need to try it again because ya all can't read a history book is beyond me. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:51 xDaunt wrote: ... The US hasn't fought to win since WW2. The lesson of Vietnam is don't bother half-assing wars. What do you think the long-term objectives are against ISIS? What would count as a "win"? On June 11 2016 10:52 SolaR- wrote: No, but you can punish them into submission where any threat that they could ever pose to you is futile. Who is the "them" and "they" to which you refer, here? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:58 xDaunt wrote: Maybe, but history has shown than the more brutal methodology produces results. And what, instead we have the Israeli/Palestinian perspective, where hundreds of thousands die over the course of many years both directly and indirectly due to the conflict. Why? Because it is too brutal to bare the thought of actually settling the dispute. Sure, more people die and more more money is spent and global society as a whole is hindered. But man, isn't it cool that our leaders are able to not technically have blood on their hands? | ||
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SolaR-
United States2686 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:59 Plansix wrote: Will never happen. You just doom your kids you violence because their children would be told of the terrible crimes committed against them. Like people tried this shit in history. It failed. Why we need to try it again because ya all can't read a history book is beyond me. Wait, history is batman? I'm confused. I majored in history. What war are your referring to? As xDaunt mentioned the last war that we beat our enemies into submission was WWII. Japan and Germany are now two of our strongest allies. Your point? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46547 Posts
On June 11 2016 10:58 xDaunt wrote: Maybe, but history has shown than the more brutal methodology produces results. Can you elaborate? For example, waterboarding produces shit results, and it's actual torture. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:03 SolaR- wrote: Wait, history is batman? I'm confused. I majored in history. What war are your referring to? As xDaunt mentioned the last war that we beat our enemies into submission was WWII. Japan and Germany are now two of our strongest allies. Your point? which proves you wrong; as one of the key points of WW2 is that A) we didn't torture/massacre or even punish their civilians after winning the war. and B) we made a serious MASSIVE effort to reconstruct and rebuild their nations. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:03 SolaR- wrote: ... As xDaunt mentioned the last war that we beat our enemies into submission was WWII. Japan and Germany are now two of our strongest allies. Your point? That was a war where your opponents were countries as opposed to an ideology. The US isn't fighting countries any more, it's fighting a bunch of random people who its foreign policies have pissed off in the last century or so. Indiscriminate killing is exactly the kind of foreign policy which just pisses off more and more people. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Can you elaborate? For example, waterboarding produces shit results, and it's actual torture. Who gives a shit about water boarding a few people? I'm talking about mass subjugation of entire societies. | ||
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SolaR-
United States2686 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:08 zlefin wrote: which proves you wrong; as one of the key points of WW2 is that A) we didn't torture/massacre or even punish their civilians after winning the war. and B) we made a serious MASSIVE effort to reconstruct and rebuild their nations. That is after the war... First we completely obliterated them and wiped them. Even resorting to the only two nuclear strikes in existence. You must beat your enemy into submission before rebuilding. Instead the last wars we resort to doing a half way job because we don't want to be too mean, and we end up accomplishing nothing. If you beat them into submission you can succeed in brainwashing them to your ideology and worldview. If you leave them barely damaged with a bitter taste in their mouth, there is room for animosity to grow. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:03 SolaR- wrote: Wait, history is batman? I'm confused. I majored in history. What war are your referring to? As xDaunt mentioned the last war that we beat our enemies into submission was WWII. Japan and Germany are now two of our strongest allies. Your point? The reason they are allies had nothing to do with how brutal we were during that war. In fact, the opposite is the reason. It's because we treated them humanly after the surrendered. And terrors eat can't surrender, so we don't have that option. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:10 SolaR- wrote: That is after the war... First we completely obliterated them and wiped them. Even resorting to the only two nuclear strikes in existence. You must beat your enemy into submission before rebuilding. The United States does not have a clearly defined "enemy" in this fight. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:10 SolaR- wrote: That is after the war... First we completely obliterated them and wiped them. Even resorting to the only two nuclear strikes in existence. You must beat your enemy into submission before rebuilding. As someone who wrote his final thesis on the rise and fall of totalitarianism, please take more history classes. | ||
KwarK
United States44393 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46547 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:08 xDaunt wrote: Who gives a shit about water boarding a few people? I'm talking about mass subjugation of entire societies. Well the scale wasn't mentioned, but okay. Things don't have to be unnecessarily torturous and deadly to be effective though. You can also win with ideas. | ||
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SolaR-
United States2686 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:12 Aquanim wrote: The United States does not have a clearly defined "enemy" in this fight. Sure we do. When we attacked Germany, not everyone who fought for Germany was a believer of the Nazi party. We still fought them anyways. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On June 11 2016 11:13 KwarK wrote: God this topic has become such a shithole overnight. Would be your job to prevent it though, wouldn't it?  I enjoy myself. Some people here make me feel like i'm watching apes through a window, silently observing how they behave. edit: oops, i broke the internet. :/ | ||
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