EPTAs the court currently stands, it would be a 5-3 or (improbably) 6-2 ruling against the lawsuit. The filling of Scalia's seat likely won't matter if no other justice retires. Essentially a reaffirmation of gender/sexuality discrimination laws.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3881
| Forum Index > Closed |
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
|
Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
As the court currently stands, it would be a 5-3 or (improbably) 6-2 ruling against the lawsuit. The filling of Scalia's seat likely won't matter if no other justice retires. Essentially a reaffirmation of gender/sexuality discrimination laws. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
biology]major
United States2253 Posts
| ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15673 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28653 Posts
| ||
|
biology]major
United States2253 Posts
| ||
|
SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
But almost every person I've ever met has been pretty accepting of trans people so it's hard for me to see a lot of bigotry on the issue. If the trans person doesn't pass as the other sex very well, there may be some comments but they'll be muffled normally. Where do you draw the line on it? Right now there's incidents of men testing the rule going into womens change rooms at public pools and beginning to undress. This causes a lot of alarm among the women because.. well, they frankly don't want a man in there as well. The women complain to the staff, like the fucking bigots they are didn't they know it was current year? But seriously this causes alarm for obvious reasons. Having a grown man in a change room with kids and women goes against common sense for these women. It feels like an invasion of privacy, and potentially threatening. Considering "upskirts" and "creepshots" and stupid things like that exist, it may be more dangerous if a man in a wig gets the idea he can put a hidden camera in change rooms and then he needs to be Chris Hansen'd. The Republican argument is that.. "uh.. we know men. There's more perverts than there are transgendered people. We want to be vigilant if a man uses a ladies restroom, not the opposite." The Democrat argument is... I'm not actually sure. I'd gladly listen to anyone explaining it. Don't.. force your gender stereotypes on us? Stop oppressing us with your genders on bathrooms it is triggering? But I'm sure you may have heard of Stefonkee, an old man who left his family & 5-7 kids because he now identifies as a 6 year old girl. Here she is finally being able to pee in peace. + Show Spoiler + All in all I feel it's a complete non-issue that is used to distract us from far more important issues. All three presidential candidates do not care if Catelyn Jenner uses whichever bathroom she wants. It's a useless time filler tbh. Is this a federal issue or a state issue? Is it an actual issue? | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15673 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44256 Posts
On May 26 2016 06:53 biology]major wrote: It's a non issue to most Americans, but the I think you mean "It's a non issue to most Americans, but extreme socially conservative bigots push against minority rights pretty hard." The Republicans are the ones getting their panties in a bunch over .3% of the population; the rest of us don't mind and/ or would just rather see a minority group be represented and cared about. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2016 07:28 Mohdoo wrote: Do we have any data on sexual assault in bathrooms? Is this a remotely relevant issue, or is it more so just something that weirds people out? Whatever sexual assault takes place in rest rooms will not be addressed by this law. The law is not addressing any concern anyone was aware of. Its just a way to attack transgender people, who mostly just want to be left alone. Bathrooms are where a lot of assaults and murders of transgender people take place. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44256 Posts
On May 26 2016 07:28 Mohdoo wrote: Do we have any data on sexual assault in bathrooms? Is this a remotely relevant issue, or is it more so just something that weirds people out? It's 100% truly about the "yuck/ unnatural factor", and there is absolutely no statistical evidence supporting the argument that allowing transgendered people in the bathroom would increase the likelihood of assault or sexual assault in public restrooms. It's just like how homophobes disguised their "eww that's weird" response to gay marriage by coming up with bullshit claims. | ||
|
SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Stefonkee wouldn't make the cut and everyone would turn their head. However some cute thai ladyboy who looks better than a lot of women people wouldn't blink twice. http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo Really unsure if there's a lot of hard stats on where sexual assault normally takes place. Does it differentiate between public places / public bathrooms? | ||
KwarK
United States42596 Posts
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wa-man-women-bathroom-test-transgender-ruling-article-1.2535150 The Democratic argument is "We already have laws against people harassing other people, as well as sexual assault, child abuse and so forth which are more than sufficient to deal with what can absolutely not be described as a pressing issue in America. If an individual was committed to abusing a child then they would not be deterred by ignoring the sign on a bathroom door and we would have no difficulty trying and convicting him for the abuse of the child without needing the additional charge of "was in the wrong bathroom". All this law does is increases government intrusion into the pants of the population, reinforce negative stereotypes against a minority for whom the stereotypes have no basis and portray trans individuals, who have invisibly coexisted with the rest of the American population for years, as a public enemy. It will inevitably lead to violence against innocent members of the LGBT community and will do nothing to stop any assaults." The Republican argument is just more of the generic drumming up hate against anyone who doesn't look like you. Hell, Republicans are always going on about how gun-free zones do nothing to stop shootings etc and how gays are perverts who want to fuck boys and yet they wish to make bathrooms trans free zones in order to make sure that all the gay men are only allowed to hang around male children. No part of it adds up unless you assume that the only agenda is to rile up the population to hate the outsider. Emailghazi is looking like it'll be p good. | ||
|
KwarK
United States42596 Posts
On May 26 2016 07:36 SK.Testie wrote: I think it would also matter how "passable" you are as trans. Stefonkee wouldn't make the cut and everyone would turn their head. However some cute thai ladyboy who looks better than a lot of women people wouldn't blink twice. http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo Really unsure if there's a lot of hard stats on where sexual assault normally takes place. Does it differentiate between public places / public bathrooms? Most sexual assault takes place within relationships and within families, as you'd expect. You're far more likely to be raped by a family member or a partner than a stranger. Going to a public bathroom to rape someone makes no sense, you have no control over privacy, you'd immediately give yourself away by climbing over the side of a stall or peaking through the crack, the only public part of a woman's bathroom is the sinks and that's not the moneyshot. You're far, far more likely to get raped in your home than any other place and trans people are far, far more frequently the victims of sexual assault than the perpetrators which makes sense when you consider that for a lot of people they exist purely as a niche kind of porn to be consumed. | ||
|
SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
It's arguing against the minority of men pretending to be Trans who wear a wig to go where they're clearly not supposed to go. So it's actually going to matter how passable / attractive you are on how many looks or complaints that are going to go your way. And I don't think that's going to change. People have already abused this, and will continue to do so. And because it'd be tricky to report on and actually prove because people are afraid of offending people now, it may happen slightly more often than we'd think. So the clear thing here is: What should the line be. and what is the ideal solution. Gender neutral bathrooms? Anyone can use whatever bathroom they choose? What of change rooms where people walk around nude because they have to shower to wash chlorine off / use steam rooms / actually take time to change? Anyone can use whatever change room they choose? What is the line and where do we draw it? Do we remove it entirely? I'm not sure what the ideal situation here is. I thought what we had was pretty solid that one says men and one says women and you just go and do your business and GTFO. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15673 Posts
On May 26 2016 07:53 SK.Testie wrote: I'd agree that I don't think the number of sexual assaults from Trans people will increase. I don't think that's the issue I'm arguing. It's arguing against the minority of men pretending to be Trans who wear a wig to go where they're clearly not supposed to go. I suppose my thought is: Why are they not supposed to? I understand that it feels like it makes a lot of sense to have bathrooms split, but this is perhaps an instance where the excessively liberal nature of Portland serves itself well. There are plenty of trendy little places in Portland which exclusively have multi-gender bathrooms and make sure to not ever split by gender. I have yet to hear of any issues and Portland loves to talk about local drama. It really seems like there perhaps isn't a good reason for splitting bathrooms by gender. | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28653 Posts
On May 26 2016 07:16 biology]major wrote: Too hard to define who is and who isn't transgender. I can go into women's restroom and just say identify as a female, who's gonna stop me? The solutions are to add a transgender restroom, or remove gender from restrooms all together. This shit is irrelevant tho, bathroom privilege for .3 percent of the population, who cares Imo, your first two sentences conflict with the last two. If you genuinely don't care, then just let transgenders define themselves as transgender rather than try to make an objective assessment based on hormonal percentages or whatever, and don't worry about a made-up fear of fake transgender men pretending to be women (which is even less of an issue). This is an important issue for transgender people. It's seemingly a non-issue for everyone else, because even here, everyone who even partially argues the anti-transgender argument (not to be interpreted as you being opposed to transgender people) claim to not care. As such, is it not simply much easier for everyone else to quite simply adjust and let transgenders do what transgenders want to do? I've also never really understood why it would be more traumatizing for little girls to share bathroom with someone who is 'born male' but identifies as, and looks like, a woman, than to share bathroom with someone who is 'born female' but identifies as, and looks like, a man. | ||
|
SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Also, what of change rooms where the nudity is there without privacy on a far larger scale? Countless changerooms just have benches and lockers, steamrooms and showers without many individual stalls to change in. Should those be gendered? It's pretty clear women don't feel comfortable when a form that is more male than female walks into the room. Do they just have to suck it up? | ||
|
KwarK
United States42596 Posts
| ||
| ||
