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On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim.
No, because I am not a huge asshole and I understand how to talk to other humans with different experiences than me.
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On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged?
Coming from the guy who supports Trump and social darwinism. Priceless.
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On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim.
could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about?
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On May 13 2016 23:47 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim. could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about?
Why would you take that bait? It is going to be the regurgitated talking points you see across the internet about Islam and religion as a whole. Just like always. I swear they have a flow chart on r/atheism someplace.
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I normally wouldn't comment as they are usually void of anything insightful, but Testie's recent posts read like a gravely shallow misinterpretation of Nietzche, which mildly amuses me. Parallels with Nazi fascination with him.
1) The notion that there are sexual predators waiting on the day for transgendered individuals to be guaranteed the right to use their preferred gender bathrooms so that they can do some (still illegal) perving in opposite sex bathrooms is hilarious. Because until that law is passed, the women signs kept them out of the women's bathroom...or something.
2) One does not need to be trans to wear drag.
3) For most transgendered individuals, you wouldn't be able to determine many differences from their preferred sex. Bathroom laws like the one in North Carolina (which is certainly what the administration is aiming to fully repudiate, coupled with the ongoing lawsuit) are, well, rather counterproductive if the goal was actually for "people who look/act/fulfill X gender identity" to go to X gender bathroom, as opposed to being the anti-trans piece of discriminatory legislation it actually is.
4) The constant rantings about SJWs and feminism gets tiresome. I doubt it'll go away since Trump decidedly embodies the "RedPill/Men's Rights" counterculture, but please.
On May 13 2016 23:23 biology]major wrote:
Better for us to focus on developing thick skin than to tell others to be nice. Because we control one and not the other
...so the answer when facing discrimination is to sit down and shut up, don't rock the WASP boat?
Wonderful, I'll let the civil rights movements and minorities know. African-Americans shouldn't have challenged segregation, the gays should've learned their place and not campaigned for rights, women shouldn't be so uppity and gotten the vote.
Really, this notion is ridiculous.
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On May 13 2016 23:47 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim. could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about?
Here's many sets of ideas in this video that some Muslims in the audience may or may not agree with. My stance on this is: Deport them all. These people are a problem that are completely unnecessary and do not belong in our country. Every single one of those men in this video. They do not belong, they have no right to be welcome, and no right to stay in any sovereign nation that deems them unfit to be there.
+ Show Spoiler +
Here's an ex-muslim man that is super, super welcome in my neighbourhood and would gladly barbecue with.
+ Show Spoiler +
One of these men seems like.. well.. just a better guy.
Well friends should be able to challenge each other on ideas and beliefs that they hold. Are you not really friends with this person that you cannot do that? And of course, there's hundreds of neat charts on Islam. I would think real friends can discuss anything with each other without going off limits. That's how it's always been with my friends. If I think they have stupid ideas, I most certainly tell them. They either flesh the idea out and challenge me back and convince me, or they don't. In the case of ideologies, it doesn't matter "where you came from". It matters only in the sense that, "ahh he's been indoctrinated by the Quran for 18 years.. of course". It only matters what set of ideas is better.
Does this belong in Britain? Yes or no?
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xei9qq_richard-dawkins-visits-a-muslim-sch_news
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On May 14 2016 00:00 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 23:47 zlefin wrote:On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim. could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about? Here's many sets of ideas in this video that some Muslims in the audience may or may not agree with. My stance on this is: Deport them all. These people are a problem that are completely unnecessary and do not belong in our country. Every single one of those men in this video. They do not belong, they have no right to be welcome, and no right to stay in any sovereign nation that deems them unfit to be there. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOx6nfzrxFc Here's an ex-muslim man that is super, super welcome in my neighbourhood and would gladly barbecue with. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cjYaXC1sg One of these men seems like.. well.. just a better guy. Well friends should be able to challenge each other on ideas and beliefs that they hold. Are you not really friends with this person that you cannot do that? And of course, there's hundreds of neat charts on Islam. I would think real friends can discuss anything with each other without going off limits. That's how it's always been with my friends. If I think they have stupid ideas, I most certainly tell them. They either flesh the idea out and challenge me back and convince me, or they don't. In the case of ideologies, it doesn't matter "where you came from". It matters only in the sense that, "ahh he's been indoctrinated by the Quran for 18 years.. of course". It only matters what set of ideas is better.
I don't put much stock into moral relativism, but you are oversimplifying Islam here, and your central premise seems to be that your world view is the only correct one (i.e., "It only matters what set of ideas is better"). I don't claim to understand what drives people to be religious, but I also don't expect them to renounce deeply-held beliefs because I try to logically explain to them how their religion is dumb.
I believe that, just like fundamental Christians, fundamentalist Muslims are a problem and behind the times in our modern world. But, also just like Christians, there are plenty of faithful individuals who are able to observe their religion through a modern lens. There is no reason to conflate everybody together.
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On May 14 2016 00:00 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 23:47 zlefin wrote:On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim. could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about? Here's many sets of ideas in this video that some Muslims in the audience may or may not agree with. My stance on this is: Deport them all. These people are a problem that are completely unnecessary and do not belong in our country. Every single one of those men in this video. They do not belong, they have no right to be welcome, and no right to stay in any sovereign nation that deems them unfit to be there. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOx6nfzrxFc Here's an ex-muslim man that is super, super welcome in my neighbourhood and would gladly barbecue with. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cjYaXC1sg One of these men seems like.. well.. just a better guy. Well friends should be able to challenge each other on ideas and beliefs that they hold. Are you not really friends with this person that you cannot do that? And of course, there's hundreds of neat charts on Islam. I would think real friends can discuss anything with each other without going off limits. That's how it's always been with my friends. If I think they have stupid ideas, I most certainly tell them. They either flesh the idea out and challenge me back and convince me, or they don't. In the case of ideologies, it doesn't matter "where you came from". It matters only in the sense that, "ahh he's been indoctrinated by the Quran for 18 years.. of course". It only matters what set of ideas is better. Does this belong in Britain? Yes or no? + Show Spoiler +http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xei9qq_richard-dawkins-visits-a-muslim-sch_news
Oh boy! I wonder what you would say to me if I talks about the horrors of white people and as a resulr, need to implement policy punishing the white race for crimes they did not commit while insisting a few nutjobs represent an entire group with dishonest uses of video footage!
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Extremists and fundamentalist have been a problem in all religions and creeds throughout history. Blaming other followers of that faith/creed is misguided because both takes away the responsibility from the violent parties, but also places a burden agency on the more reasonable members when they have very little control. The first thing violent extremist’s is distance themselves from the opposition within their own religion and limit the opposition’s ability to control them. I know a lot of Christians in the US would love to stop the Westborough Baptists Church or the aggressive protests as Planned Parenthood.
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On May 14 2016 00:00 SK.Testie wrote:
Here's many sets of ideas in this video that some Muslims in the audience may or may not agree with. My stance on this is: Deport them all. These people are a problem that are completely unnecessary and do not belong in our country. Every single one of those men in this video. They do not belong, they have no right to be welcome, and no right to stay in any sovereign nation that deems them unfit to be there.
And what should we do with the people who think that Social Darwinism isn't so bad? Can we deport them too?
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On May 14 2016 00:27 Plansix wrote:
Extremists and fundamentalist have been a problem in all religions and creeds throughout history.
Isn't this a basis to challenge the idea of religion immediately as it is constantly a threat?
Blaming other followers of that faith/creed is misguided because both takes away the responsibility from the violent parties, but also places a burden agency on the more reasonable members when they have very little control.
ISIS and Saudi Arabia are the literal interpretations of Islam. There are celebrations in every country when martyrs die. It's proven it happened in America on 9/11. It happened in Belgium, France, most definitely India, all of Africa and the Middle East. So when you say, "my Muslim friend" I say.. "why? what do you have in common with that man?". I've gotten along with Muslims but I can most definitely say none are my friends, nor would I accept them as friends.
The first thing violent extremist’s is distance themselves from the opposition within their own religion and limit the opposition’s ability to control them.
Ghettos in Europe where extremists hide other extremists? Where imams openly teach hatred against the west? Have you looked at the security failures in Belgium and France? They actually wanted to blow up the nuclear power plant and cause a meltdown you know. Is risking Belgiums safety worth virtue signalling that you're a good tolerant person? You're just a kafir what do you know?
Twitter censored the #stopislam hash tag after the Belgium attacks. It was an insanely fast growing hashtag that got well over 300k maybe 400-500k I don't know at what point it was silenced. Was that the responsible thing to do? Stifling peoples real feelings about the ideology?
http://www.mediaite.com/online/stopislam-trends-gets-massive-backlash-on-twitter-after-brussels-attacks/
On May 14 2016 00:29 zf wrote:
And what should we do with the people who think that Social Darwinism isn't so bad? Can we deport them too?
If you hold the majority, you can try. But the people who believe in social darwinism probably have more guns and are stronger and better looking on average I'd imagine. It'd be a tough fight. But a more serious answer would be that one seems far less reasonable because you never know who's a commie and who's more into social darwinism because they don't have a fancy dress or church that they go to.
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On May 14 2016 00:00 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 23:47 zlefin wrote:On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim. could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about? Here's many sets of ideas in this video that some Muslims in the audience may or may not agree with. My stance on this is: Deport them all. These people are a problem that are completely unnecessary and do not belong in our country. Every single one of those men in this video. They do not belong, they have no right to be welcome, and no right to stay in any sovereign nation that deems them unfit to be there.
I think that your beliefs are far more dangerous than the average Muslim's, and I think that we should probably change the subject...
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On May 14 2016 00:42 SK.Testie wrote:If you hold the majority, you can try. But the people who believe in social darwinism probably have more guns and are stronger and better looking on average I'd imagine. It'd be a tough fight. But a more serious answer would be that one seems far less reasonable because you never know who's a commie and who's more into social darwinism because they don't have a fancy dress or church that they go to.
But if we knew who they were, we could do it right? What about the ones who out themselves?
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Religion is as much a threat as anything else. Nationalism is one of the root cultural causes for world war 1. There were numerous conflicts throughout history that have been caused by everything but religion. Xenophobia and the desire to “improve” medical science has resulted in some horrific acts. There is no limit to the number of ways humans have justified terrible actions.
Claiming that Religion more dangerous than any other frame of thought or idea just shows a lack of imagination.
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On May 14 2016 00:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that your beliefs are far more dangerous than the average Muslim's, and I think that we should probably change the subject...
Dangerous to whom? It's a far more peaceful option than the can you kick down the road by ignoring peoples real feelings on the subject. "This is unsettling, we should change the subject". No, let a subject reach it's natural conclusion. No subject ever gets solved anymore because once you go a little bit down the rabbit hole, people are too uncomfortable to go further. Is that the point of politics? To be like our politicians and avoid conflict and come to no solutions? Do you personally want any of those men in the first video to be your neighbour? If yes, why? If no, why not?
It's not a hard question.
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On May 13 2016 05:38 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 05:34 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 13 2016 05:28 travis wrote:On May 13 2016 05:26 Plansix wrote:On May 13 2016 05:19 travis wrote:On May 13 2016 05:15 Yurie wrote:On May 13 2016 05:08 Plansix wrote:
Yes, the GOP, ruining a function government by fucking with the House of Representatives, one broken rule at a time. Serious, the DNC should run on the platform that they would remove the Hastert Rule once they got control of the house. Just cite how functional government was without it.
And require representatives to live in Washington. But one bridge at a time.
If you add a requirement for them to live in Washington pay for them to live there as well. Not actually living there can be cheaper, expensive city. You might also prefer to live some place else because of family etc. Simplest would be to offer to pay for standard living and if you want better you pay for the difference. Then freeze salary until that is included in it at a reasonable level. What a weird thing to say. I live just outside of DC and I am a poor student. I am pretty sure they can afford to live around DC... Who gives a shit why they want to live somewhere else... they took the job, lol I would not assume that and by adding those costs to being a civil servant, it only attracts people that can afford it. AKA, the very wealthy. Or you get politicians who are working on a thin budget, which is generally not a good thing. You don’t want people with that much power worrying about how to pay their mortgage. what would you not assume? you guys are confusing me dont congressmen make like 175k a year or something? in what way is that not enough money to live in DC? They all have an address in their home district in say ... Utah. Typically they have some sort of apartment in DC. If you have an expensive wife and a bunch of kids and a house in another state ... 175k isn't very much. why should anyone ever care, no one is forcing them to take the job. people have to relocate their families for their work all the time. I mean.. any normal person would *sell their other house*, if they couldn't afford to have two residences. But apparently these guys for some mystery reason are above that?
See this is the problem with the moralism in discussion of compensation. You see that congress makes 175k/yr and think, that's insane! Because it is in fact a lot of money. But I know lots of people with incomes well in excess of that and they aren't nearly at the level of congresspeople in terms of achievement or power. (Well, some are, but at that point you're talking orders of magnitude more money.)
And the important point has nothing to do with moralism (they don't DESERVE more), but rather results. In the real world, the problem is that 175k isn't enough. How do I know? Because almost everyone in congress has some other major form of income. Which means congress skews crazy rich. The rich are overrepresented in congress in part because we are afraid of making congress rich.
On May 13 2016 22:42 NukeD wrote:
This reminds me of when my high school proffesor talked about why roman empire evetually fell apart. It was not because of an outside source but from the inside. The empire was too diversified, had to many different ethniticities that eventually Roman identity faded and the empire naturally dwindled to a point where one man could march in it and declare it ceases to exist. On the other hand acording to historians, Romans giving counquered nations a lot of their freedoms is in their opinion what enabled the empire to last over a thousand years. So how much of this is true I have no idea, I got it from my history teacher but it is kind of relevant to what is happening today. I see no problem with a culture and a nation defending its own values and demanding immigrants to inherit those values if they wish to live or benefit of that country.
Yeah, that "immigrants did it" is not any serious scholar's view of the fall of the Roman empire. In fact, their continual expansion of rights beyond Rome itself is how the empire kept expanding. The trouble really started when the empire *stopped* expanding and wasn't introducing new rights for a while.
On May 14 2016 00:00 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 23:47 zlefin wrote:On May 13 2016 23:40 SK.Testie wrote:
Have you ever asked your Muslim friends directly why despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips that they subscribe to a horrible set of ideas? Ideas that desperately need to be challenged? They weren't born Muslim after all. They were programmed Muslim. could you elaborate on what horrible set of Ideas you're talking about? Here's many sets of ideas in this video that some Muslims in the audience may or may not agree with. My stance on this is: Deport them all. These people are a problem that are completely unnecessary and do not belong in our country. Every single one of those men in this video. They do not belong, they have no right to be welcome, and no right to stay in any sovereign nation that deems them unfit to be there. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOx6nfzrxFc Here's an ex-muslim man that is super, super welcome in my neighbourhood and would gladly barbecue with. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cjYaXC1sg One of these men seems like.. well.. just a better guy. Well friends should be able to challenge each other on ideas and beliefs that they hold. Are you not really friends with this person that you cannot do that? And of course, there's hundreds of neat charts on Islam. I would think real friends can discuss anything with each other without going off limits. That's how it's always been with my friends. If I think they have stupid ideas, I most certainly tell them. They either flesh the idea out and challenge me back and convince me, or they don't. In the case of ideologies, it doesn't matter "where you came from". It matters only in the sense that, "ahh he's been indoctrinated by the Quran for 18 years.. of course". It only matters what set of ideas is better. Does this belong in Britain? Yes or no? + Show Spoiler +http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xei9qq_richard-dawkins-visits-a-muslim-sch_news
You dodged the question. List some views that you think modern sensible Muslims agree with that are "horrible."
Of course you can find people from a group with objectionable views. But there are lots of normal Muslims who don't hold any of those views. I know Christians who think women shouldn't talk in church. I know Atheists who think we should deport all the Muslims. And I know Muslims with whom my only major disagreements regard questions of the trinity/incarnation. To say that all Muslims are represented by their worst element is disingenuous at best. Debate against ideas on their merits. So if you think stoning is bad, that's good. But don't assign the belief that stoning is good to everyone with the "Muslim" label. You don't get to define the bounds of someone else's religion.
If IS is a solid interpretation of Islam, why again do almost all Islamic scholars condemn it?
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On May 14 2016 00:52 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 00:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that your beliefs are far more dangerous than the average Muslim's, and I think that we should probably change the subject... Dangerous to whom? It's a far more peaceful option than the can you kick down the road by ignoring peoples real feelings on the subject. "This is unsettling, we should change the subject". No, let a subject reach it's natural conclusion. No subject ever gets solved anymore because once you go a little bit down the rabbit hole, people are too uncomfortable to go further. Is that the point of politics? To be like our politicians and avoid conflict and come to no solutions? Do you personally want any of those men in the first video to be your neighbour? If yes, why? If no, why not? It's not a hard question.
I do not think anyone is talking with their fee fees
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Its not really going to change except for generations of assimilation into the general culture. We don't for sure what the "average museum" that doesn't go to conventions for museum speakers.
The best we can do is tolerate them and not listen to them in politics for a few generations.
But anyway its not a problem in america. Its a euro problem beacuse they believe in multiculturalism instead of assimilation like us proud, correct, world saving Americans.
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On May 14 2016 00:58 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 00:52 SK.Testie wrote:On May 14 2016 00:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that your beliefs are far more dangerous than the average Muslim's, and I think that we should probably change the subject... Dangerous to whom? It's a far more peaceful option than the can you kick down the road by ignoring peoples real feelings on the subject. "This is unsettling, we should change the subject". No, let a subject reach it's natural conclusion. No subject ever gets solved anymore because once you go a little bit down the rabbit hole, people are too uncomfortable to go further. Is that the point of politics? To be like our politicians and avoid conflict and come to no solutions? Do you personally want any of those men in the first video to be your neighbour? If yes, why? If no, why not? It's not a hard question. I do not think anyone is talking with their fee fees
He is the only one talking about his feelings of being shamed and bullied. That his ideas are being policed and repressed, while he advocates for deporting people who believe something he doesn’t agree with.
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EPT
