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On May 14 2016 00:52 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 00:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think that your beliefs are far more dangerous than the average Muslim's, and I think that we should probably change the subject... Dangerous to whom? It's a far more peaceful option than the can you kick down the road by ignoring peoples real feelings on the subject. "This is unsettling, we should change the subject". No, let a subject reach it's natural conclusion. No subject ever gets solved anymore because once you go a little bit down the rabbit hole, people are too uncomfortable to go further. Is that the point of politics? To be like our politicians and avoid conflict and come to no solutions? Do you personally want any of those men in the first video to be your neighbour? If yes, why? If no, why not? It's not a hard question.
The idea that we should stereotype a billion people with varying beliefs, and tell them that they don't deserve to live in certain places and that they're all bad people and should be removed from their homes. You make it sound like all Muslims are religious extremists, and that they're all taking over the United States (or Canada? You're from Canada, right?). Overall, the Christians in my country are far, far more dangerous than the Muslims, but I wouldn't say we should get rid of all Christians.
Also, I was asking to change the subject for your sake, not for mine. I don't think it's a discussion that's too tough for either of us, but a lot of your language has been inflammatory.
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On May 14 2016 00:54 Yoav wrote:
You dodged the question. List some views that you think modern sensible Muslims agree with that are "horrible."
Of course you can find people from a group with objectionable views. But there are lots of normal Muslims who don't hold any of those views. I know Christians who think women shouldn't talk in church. I know Atheists who think we should deport all the Muslims. And I know Muslims with whom my only major disagreements regard questions of the trinity/incarnation. To say that all Muslims are represented by their worst element is disingenuous at best. Debate against ideas on their merits. So if you think stoning is bad, that's good. But don't assign the belief that stoning is good to everyone with the "Muslim" label. You don't get to define the bounds of someone else's religion.
Let's start this off with: Out of all the Islamic countries right now in the ME, the most likely one to turn secular and be a place of peace again is Iran. When talking to many ex-muslims from the Muslim world, they see Iran as the only foreseeable great country in the region in the near future at least.
We'll take Sharia for instance. The idea of wanting to be governed by a religious body that has its own laws that supersede the laws of the host nation. Firstly, it's built on the premise that religion is a wonderful tool when history can make a pretty strong claim that religion is quite an awful tool. Is allowing your nation to be built upon a sexist theology a good thing in the first place? I'd argue from where we are all today in civilization, in which nations get to exploit whom, it is bad for a nation. It is a weakness that leaves areas in your populace to exploit so that stronger nations will play with you at their will. Let alone what it does for half your citizenry.
Secondly: Half your citizens are likened often to cattle. They are your property, they are not free to make all of their own choices and have domain over themselves. The Quran clearly keeps sending mixed messages on almost any issue. But the general theme is at least that, "as men, we know what's better for you than you do".
If IS is a solid interpretation of Islam, why again do almost all Islamic scholars condemn it?
I would argue there is plenty of evidence around the world that this is quite simply not the case. The first video was taken in Norway. And I have hundreds of other damning videos in Europe. Doing the math that means tens of thousands of Muslims in the west take their religion very seriously, think that it supersedes that of the state they are in.
They did not just shut down a court in Texas the rest of this paragraph only serves as a reminder. There's not a massive Muslim population in Texas tbh. I'd argue that having a group of people who constantly try to subvert and make their own rules only applicable to them and want special treatment in the host country is terrible for the country.
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/shariatexas.asp
Ok, so maybe don't cite things that were proven to be hoaxes a year ago? But maybe this isn’t the first time someone pointed out that the Texas thing didn’t happen and you just like citing it hoping people won’t fact check.
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On May 14 2016 01:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Overall, the Christians in my country are far, far more dangerous than the Muslims, but I wouldn't say we should get rid of all Christians. .
This would not be close to true if the demographics were reversed. Not even a little.
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You're correct, thanks for that. But there are Sharia courts in Britain, France and the EU etc that either had to be closed down or may still exist currently.
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On May 14 2016 01:17 SK.Testie wrote:You're correct, thanks for that. But there are Sharia courts in Britain, France and the EU etc.
Yes, they are voluntary mediation based on Sharia law, which is similar to our concept of common law. You should read up on the process they go through and how they relate to the legal systems in those nations. They are similar to the mediation process we use in the US, where the court signs off on the agreement between the parties and assures it is in compliance with the law.
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On May 14 2016 01:13 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 01:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Overall, the Christians in my country are far, far more dangerous than the Muslims, but I wouldn't say we should get rid of all Christians. . This would not be close to true if the demographics were reversed. Not even a little.
But, like, they're not.
So your position is that Muslims should be kicked out of America because *if* they were all extremists and *if* they were a substantial majority of the American population, then we'd have a bigger problem than we do now?
And you don't see a problem with acting upon such a ludicrous hypothetical? Muslims are treated like shit in this country, presumably because of mindsets similar to yours.
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we have extrajudicial systems like arbitration that people willingly use as an alternative to the actual federal/state system. which is totally fine as long as it doesnt conflict with actual law
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On May 14 2016 01:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 01:13 SK.Testie wrote:On May 14 2016 01:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Overall, the Christians in my country are far, far more dangerous than the Muslims, but I wouldn't say we should get rid of all Christians. . This would not be close to true if the demographics were reversed. Not even a little. But, like, they're not. So your position is that Muslims should be kicked out of America because *if* they were all extremists and *if* they were a substantial majority of the American population, then we'd have a bigger problem than we do now? And you don't see a problem with acting upon such a ludicrous hypothetical? Muslims are treated like shit in this country, presumably because of mindsets similar to yours.
Well, maybe they shouldn't identify as Muslim and should identify as American instead. Again, Muslim means they subscribe to a set of ideas. If they were just Americans, I highly doubt there'd be a problem. It's like being an open communist in America you will receive a lot of scorn. Why are you living in America and trying to not be an American? Do you dislike your host country? If so, perhaps you should move to a more fitting country.
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I absolutely love the extent to which leftists go out of their way to jump on any grenade that is lobbed at the religion of Islam, but they'll the very first to shit all over Christianity at every opportunity. The hypocrisy is beautiful. What makes it even funnier is that Islam is indisputably less compatible with --- and in many cases, diametrically opposed to --- much of what leftists hold most dear.
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Did you really just advocate for deporting people who fail the loyalty test? Is this like when the Irish came over and people said they were loyal to the Pope and not America?
Edit: XDaunt, you know I'm Christian, right? The modern teachings of my religion pretty much requires me to preach tolerance and to not throw stones.
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Resident Troll SK.Testie now dipping his feet in hating on muslims. What's the over/under he switches to misogyny or transphobia next?
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I identify as Taiwanese, guess I should pack up and go even though I was born here
It's ok I can still shitpost from wherever else
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On May 14 2016 01:25 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 01:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 14 2016 01:13 SK.Testie wrote:On May 14 2016 01:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Overall, the Christians in my country are far, far more dangerous than the Muslims, but I wouldn't say we should get rid of all Christians. . This would not be close to true if the demographics were reversed. Not even a little. But, like, they're not. So your position is that Muslims should be kicked out of America because *if* they were all extremists and *if* they were a substantial majority of the American population, then we'd have a bigger problem than we do now? And you don't see a problem with acting upon such a ludicrous hypothetical? Muslims are treated like shit in this country, presumably because of mindsets similar to yours. Well, maybe they shouldn't identify as Muslim and should identify as American instead. Again, Muslim means they subscribe to a set of ideas. If they were just Americans, I highly doubt there'd be a problem. It's like being an open communist in America you will receive a lot of scorn. Why are you living in America and trying to not be an American? Do you dislike your host country? If so, perhaps you should move to a more fitting country.
That's a special form of irony, when even our Republican presidential candidates identify as "Christian first, American second". Furthermore, you can identify yourself using a bunch of different traits that don't necessarily conflict; for example, my profession is an educator, my heritage is Italian, my nationality is American, I'm an atheist, and I'm right-handed. Being a Muslim or an atheist doesn't mean you can't be an American or identify as an American. "American Muslim" is a completely sensible term.
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On May 14 2016 01:27 Plansix wrote:
Did you really just advocate for deporting people who fail the loyalty test? Is this like when the Irish came over and people said they were loyal to the Pope and not America?
Technically all catholics *should* be more loyal to the pope than America. By definition.
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On May 14 2016 01:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:
Resident Troll SK.Testie now dipping his feet in hating on muslims. What's the over/under he switches to misogyny or transphobia next?
He actually started with transphobia a few pages ago, which then turned into anti-Muslim sentiment.
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On May 14 2016 01:29 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 01:27 Plansix wrote:
Did you really just advocate for deporting people who fail the loyalty test? Is this like when the Irish came over and people said they were loyal to the Pope and not America? Technically all catholics *should* be more loyal to the pope than America. By definition.
Technically I am supposed to do no work on Sunday, but I need to mow the lawn and do laundry. If we want to get real deep in there, one could argue I can’t even play video games with the music on.
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On May 14 2016 01:26 xDaunt wrote:
I absolutely love the extent to which leftists go out of their way to jump on any grenade that is lobbed at the religion of Islam, but they'll the very first to shit all over Christianity at every opportunity. The hypocrisy is beautiful. What makes it even funnier is that Islam is indisputably less compatible with --- and in many cases, diametrically opposed to --- much of what leftists hold most dear.
I'd be happy to (tactfully) shit over any destructive, extremist belief system, regardless of whether it's Christian or Muslim or anything else (even non-religious, obviously). However, that doesn't mean I should mindlessly jump on the bandwagon of hating a billion Muslims. It's not hypocrisy.
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It wasn't transphobia. I specifically talked about how my friend who was transgendered who I played dota with for years. He told me he was becoming a woman or w/e and it was no biggie. I just said, "yeah ofc you do you np" and still loved the guy whom I assume is now a girl. There was no hatred. I asked a genuine question of.. "are we actually doing the right thing when in fact we should possibly prescribe them pills". Also, there is a very real question of "do you honestly think children aged 5-16 even know what they are sexually? Why are we letting kids decide if they are girls or boys? Is that a good idea?" While I seem quite bigoted, I really don't think I can fall under the bigot umbrella because my literal best friend in highschool for my last year of it was a gay black dance choreographer who always hit on me and still to this day sends me pics of him in lewd positions when drunk. I always tell him I'm flattered but not interested. To which he reliably replies that he'll get me or "turn me" one day or for a night. This isn't an attack on races, it's definitely an assault on ideas and those who hold them though. It's also an assault on people in this thread, who simply allow it to happen.
There's no phobia in my life. There's never been any phobia because for the first 30 years of my life I accepted quite literally everyone of every creed, nationality, and background. I had a degree of fame, I met a lot of people. I can say there was no hatred in my heart except towards people I deemed as assholes.
However, ideas are a different matter entirely. And is letting full grown adults run around with bad ideas even remotely acceptable or responsible for us to do? "Oh that's just his religion leave him alone". No. That sounds cowardly, and terrible.
I did ask two questions that weren't answered. The men in the first video, do you want them as your neighbour? Yes/no. You do get a choice, it's your country you know. The second question was do you agree that Twitter should have stopped the #stopislam hashtag that had well over 300k tweets and was gaining steam fast. It was one of the fastest hashtags to grow and be removed so suddenly. I think it only lasted a couple hours instead of days.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/stopislam-trends-gets-massive-backlash-on-twitter-after-brussels-attacks/
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On May 14 2016 01:26 xDaunt wrote:
I absolutely love the extent to which leftists go out of their way to jump on any grenade that is lobbed at the religion of Islam, but they'll the very first to shit all over Christianity at every opportunity. The hypocrisy is beautiful. What makes it even funnier is that Islam is indisputably less compatible with --- and in many cases, diametrically opposed to --- much of what leftists hold most dear.
That's for expressing my thoughts so well.
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