In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping directive telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.
A letter to school districts will go out Friday, fueling a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education Department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.
It does not have the force of law, but it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.
The move is certain to draw fresh criticism, particularly from Republicans, that the federal government is wading into local matters and imposing its own values on communities across the country that may not agree. It represents the latest example of the Obama administration using a combination of policies, lawsuits and public statements to change the civil rights landscape for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people.
After supporting the rights of gay people to marry, allowing them to serve openly in the military and prohibiting federal contractors from discriminating against them, the administration has made bathrooms its latest battleground.
What a shitty and completely irrelevant policy. There's entire schools without a single transgendered student because it's so rare. A direct threat to schools for not accepting their morality? At what age are children even smart enough to be considering what their sex is?
Can ignore what's in the spoiler as it's just personal musing / thoughts on transgender issue. + Show Spoiler +
This transgender bathroom issue is really drummed up I feel. That one's much harder to really care for since I've known a few transgender users online and it's a little different than gay marriage. Even though most gay guys I've known were extremely promiscuous and loved being drugged up and full of dick it always felt like gay marriage was inevitable and would always happen eventually and just simply be the right thing.
First off, transgender is like 0.3% of the population or less. This isn't the most pressing issue of the presidency. It's not even in the top 100. Second of all, there's a lot of different information saying that trans people may have a mental condition that can be treated with 10mg or some pill I forget the name of. I didn't believe it when a few old hon players told me it was a mental issue but it seems that it could very well be the case. Considering their suicide statistics (often from after surgery feeling it was a horrible mistake) is it the left or the right which is less caring on this issue? If 10mg of some pill 'cures' transgender why are we talking about bathrooms?
Thirdly, mothers who are talking about how their little boys are really little girls at the age or 4-5 are disturbing. Not encouraging. That's not powerful or progressive and it's not open minded. Your child quite simply does not know what is best for him/her. This is where you're supposed to use your own wisdom as a parent to guide your child.
The Republicans talk about perverts using this to their advantage, that's actually not that crazy. I'm pretty convinced that there's more sexual predators than there are transgendered people in the world. Now a social outcast pedophile simply knows he has to throw on a dress, go outside, and once people accept that as the new norm he can go anywhere he wants without too many odd looks.
I don't know, feels like a complete non-issue that really shouldn't be brought up unless I see very hard evidence that, 'yes it's not a mental condition.' Every community I've ever been a part of has been extremely tolerant, accepting, and kind to transgendered people that I know of.
So my worry on that issue isn't that they're being ostracized to death, it's that our kindness may be the wrong choice and in fact more cruel when instead they need a, "Hey... take this medication it should help" because I'm pretty sure most people would rather see you medicated than dead.
Don't know, used to play Dota with a transgendered guy daily for years and I hope that in loving and accepting the guy I made the right choice because I didn't know at the time there were pills that could possibly cure it and lead to a more stable and happier life that won't result in suicide.
I wish Obama would do something about de-criminalizing/legalizing marijuana, one of the few things I'm "liberal" on. Schedule 1 needs to go bye bye. I think I'm more libertarian though, Rand Paul is my man!
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping directive telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.
A letter to school districts will go out Friday, fueling a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education Department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.
It does not have the force of law, but it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.
The move is certain to draw fresh criticism, particularly from Republicans, that the federal government is wading into local matters and imposing its own values on communities across the country that may not agree. It represents the latest example of the Obama administration using a combination of policies, lawsuits and public statements to change the civil rights landscape for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people.
After supporting the rights of gay people to marry, allowing them to serve openly in the military and prohibiting federal contractors from discriminating against them, the administration has made bathrooms its latest battleground.
What a shitty and completely irrelevant policy. There's entire schools without a single transgendered student because it's so rare. A direct threat to schools for not accepting their morality? At what age are children even smart enough to be considering what their sex is?
Can ignore what's in the spoiler as it's just personal musing / thoughts on transgender issue. + Show Spoiler +
This transgender bathroom issue is really drummed up I feel. That one's much harder to really care for since I've known a few transgender users online and it's a little different than gay marriage. Even though most gay guys I've known were extremely promiscuous and loved being drugged up and full of dick it always felt like gay marriage was inevitable and would always happen eventually and just simply be the right thing.
First off, transgender is like 0.3% of the population or less. This isn't the most pressing issue of the presidency. It's not even in the top 100. Second of all, there's a lot of different information saying that trans people may have a mental condition that can be treated with 10mg or some pill I forget the name of. I didn't believe it when a few old hon players told me it was a mental issue but it seems that it could very well be the case. Considering their suicide statistics (often from after surgery feeling it was a horrible mistake) is it the left or the right which is less caring on this issue? If 10mg of some pill 'cures' transgender why are we talking about bathrooms?
Thirdly, mothers who are talking about how their little boys are really little girls at the age or 4-5 are disturbing. Not encouraging. That's not powerful or progressive and it's not open minded. Your child quite simply does not know what is best for him/her. This is where you're supposed to use your own wisdom as a parent to guide your child.
The Republicans talk about perverts using this to their advantage, that's actually not that crazy. I'm pretty convinced that there's more sexual predators than there are transgendered people in the world. Now a social outcast pedophile simply knows he has to throw on a dress, go outside, and once people accept that as the new norm he can go anywhere he wants without too many odd looks.
I don't know, feels like a complete non-issue that really shouldn't be brought up unless I see very hard evidence that, 'yes it's not a mental condition.' Every community I've ever been a part of has been extremely tolerant, accepting, and kind to transgendered people that I know of.
So my worry on that issue isn't that they're being ostracized to death, it's that our kindness may be the wrong choice and in fact more cruel when instead they need a, "Hey... take this medication it should help" because I'm pretty sure most people would rather see you medicated than dead.
Don't know, used to play Dota with a transgendered guy daily for years and I hope that in loving and accepting the guy I made the right choice because I didn't know at the time there were pills that could possibly cure it and lead to a more stable and happier life that won't result in suicide.
Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
On May 13 2016 14:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
But.. that means nothing? I'm talking about trying to actually bring the suicide / suffering down rather than saying 'yay, you go be you and be proud of who you are!' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1996 Jun;30(3):422-5. The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide. Puri BK1, Singh I. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. CLINICAL PICTURE: An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. TREATMENT: Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. OUTCOME: There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. CONCLUSION: Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.
On May 13 2016 14:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
But.. that means nothing? I'm talking about trying to actually bring the suicide / suffering down rather than saying 'yay, you go be you and be proud of who you are!' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1996 Jun;30(3):422-5. The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide. Puri BK1, Singh I. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. CLINICAL PICTURE: An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. TREATMENT: Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. OUTCOME: There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. CONCLUSION: Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.
Key part of that is: "in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." Which leaves way too much room for interpretation imo, sounds more like a "pray away the gay" type of solution with the implied authority of being "medicine".
EDIT: Crossdressing, gender queerness, etc... Aren't strange because they are objectively strange, they are strange because society deems them so. We did just fine with boys wearing dresses, pretty hats, and shoes, playing with dolls, long hair, and so on. The problem is society wants to shame people to the point that death seems like a better option rather than let a boy wear a dress like they used to not very long ago.
On May 13 2016 14:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
But.. that means nothing? I'm talking about trying to actually bring the suicide / suffering down rather than saying 'yay, you go be you and be proud of who you are!' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1996 Jun;30(3):422-5. The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide. Puri BK1, Singh I. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. CLINICAL PICTURE: An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. TREATMENT: Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. OUTCOME: There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. CONCLUSION: Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.
Key part of that is: "in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." Which leaves way too much room for interpretation imo, sounds more like a "pray away the gay" type of solution with the implied authority of being "medicine".
EDIT: Crossdressing, gender queerness, etc... Aren't strange because they are objectively strange, they are strange because society deems them so. We did just fine with boys wearing dresses, pretty hats, and shoes, playing with dolls, long hair, and so on. The problem is society wants to shame people to the point that death seems like a better option rather than let a boy wear a dress like they used to not very long ago.
There is no doubt that there are some people who will find a pill more helpful than social support.
It's a complex enough issue encompassed under a very broad umbrella, so pretending that everyone diagnosed has the same catch-all cure is extremely naive (whether it's a pill or social reform).
On May 13 2016 14:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
But.. that means nothing? I'm talking about trying to actually bring the suicide / suffering down rather than saying 'yay, you go be you and be proud of who you are!' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1996 Jun;30(3):422-5. The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide. Puri BK1, Singh I. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. CLINICAL PICTURE: An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. TREATMENT: Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. OUTCOME: There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. CONCLUSION: Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.
Key part of that is: "in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." Which leaves way too much room for interpretation imo, sounds more like a "pray away the gay" type of solution with the implied authority of being "medicine".
EDIT: Crossdressing, gender queerness, etc... Aren't strange because they are objectively strange, they are strange because society deems them so. We did just fine with boys wearing dresses, pretty hats, and shoes, playing with dolls, long hair, and so on. The problem is society wants to shame people to the point that death seems like a better option rather than let a boy wear a dress like they used to not very long ago.
Agreed. This is pretty perverse. First you turn peoples lives to hell because of who they are, and then because they have increased suicide statistics (turns out unhappy people have higher suicide statistics than happy people, who would have thought) you declare that they are actually mentally ill.
I really, really don't understand why you can't just be nice to people as a general rule when what they are doing does not harm you or anyone else in any way. That sounds like such a simple and obvious thing to do. And yet so many people seem to think that we need the bathroom police just to make other people bad. It is completely incomprehensible to me.
On May 13 2016 14:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
But.. that means nothing? I'm talking about trying to actually bring the suicide / suffering down rather than saying 'yay, you go be you and be proud of who you are!' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1996 Jun;30(3):422-5. The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide. Puri BK1, Singh I. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. CLINICAL PICTURE: An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. TREATMENT: Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. OUTCOME: There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. CONCLUSION: Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.
Key part of that is: "in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." Which leaves way too much room for interpretation imo, sounds more like a "pray away the gay" type of solution with the implied authority of being "medicine".
EDIT: Crossdressing, gender queerness, etc... Aren't strange because they are objectively strange, they are strange because society deems them so. We did just fine with boys wearing dresses, pretty hats, and shoes, playing with dolls, long hair, and so on. The problem is society wants to shame people to the point that death seems like a better option rather than let a boy wear a dress like they used to not very long ago.
There is no doubt that there are some people who will find a pill more helpful than social support.
It's a complex enough issue encompassed under a very broad umbrella, so pretending that everyone diagnosed has the same catch-all cure is extremely naive (whether it's a pill or social reform).
I would presume everyone would know at this point that no sensible person is saying there is a one size fits all solution in the first place (to any real world problem really).
If people stopped being ignorant jerks, a lot less people would want to kill themselves, trans people included. But it's easier to marginalize a small group of people than it is for society to pull it's head out.
Well there's the other world view that bullying and shaming makes us stronger as a whole and the weak of the herd die off. If you can't handle ignorant jerks, which will always exist, do you even deserve to live among the strong? What if you became a weakling in the herd yourself, and needed 24/7 care? Would you prefer to pull the plug and take yourself out so to not burden anyone? Or would you cling to life?
On May 13 2016 14:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure it's society with the mental condition.
This is how we once dressed our future president in this country
But.. that means nothing? I'm talking about trying to actually bring the suicide / suffering down rather than saying 'yay, you go be you and be proud of who you are!' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1996 Jun;30(3):422-5. The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide. Puri BK1, Singh I. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. CLINICAL PICTURE: An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. TREATMENT: Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. OUTCOME: There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. CONCLUSION: Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.
Key part of that is: "in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria." Which leaves way too much room for interpretation imo, sounds more like a "pray away the gay" type of solution with the implied authority of being "medicine".
EDIT: Crossdressing, gender queerness, etc... Aren't strange because they are objectively strange, they are strange because society deems them so. We did just fine with boys wearing dresses, pretty hats, and shoes, playing with dolls, long hair, and so on. The problem is society wants to shame people to the point that death seems like a better option rather than let a boy wear a dress like they used to not very long ago.
Medicine isn't cut and dry, especially psychiatry. Transsexualism isn't about a boy in a dress either. The thing is that until very recently in human history, it hasn't been possible to use plastic surgery and chemicals to reshape someone's body so radically.
If it's the apparent authority of medicine you have a problem with, consider all the instances where people have pathologized things that are normal or favored overboard treatments because medicine is just like any beast that tends to expand its own influence (and collect $$ in the process). Tonsillectomies in children. Routine circumcision. Testosterone replacement for "manopause." Lumbar spine fusion for chronic pain. "Female Viagra." Full-breast mastectomy.
The examples are often either 1) Something to do with sexuality or 2) Something invasive and not (easily) reversible. Gender transition hits both. It's really important that we try to understand this issue as a society because blocking puberty in children is a drastic thing to do to someone's life. It's all well and good to say you want to destroy gender roles, but then when children or adults wear the "wrong" clothes or the "wrong toy" it wouldn't make sense to conclude they were really the "wrong" gender. And to the extent people put children through actual treatment, I find it very suspect when someone's child's personal medical history ends up in the newspaper.
It's very different from homosexuality because medical intervention isn't a requirement for expressing homosexuality.
On May 13 2016 15:17 SK.Testie wrote: Well there's the other world view that bullying and shaming makes us stronger as a whole and the weak of the herd die off. If you can't handle ignorant jerks, which will always exist, do you even deserve to live among the strong? What if you became a weakling in the herd yourself, and needed 24/7 care? Would you prefer to pull the plug and take yourself out so to not burden anyone? Or would you cling to life?
TIL: People who are suicidal because of social pressure are unworthy life. Testie seems to be set on getting rebanned as it seems.
On May 13 2016 15:17 SK.Testie wrote: Well there's the other world view that bullying and shaming makes us stronger as a whole and the weak of the herd die off. If you can't handle ignorant jerks, which will always exist, do you even deserve to live among the strong? What if you became a weakling in the herd yourself, and needed 24/7 care? Would you prefer to pull the plug and take yourself out so to not burden anyone? Or would you cling to life?
What a wonderful view of the world. Basically you are arguing for a cowards version of eugenics. You think that some people are unworthy of life and need to be purged to strengthen the herd, but you are to cowardly to actually do that, so instead you try to turn their life into hell so they kill themselves. What a wonderful world.
And even more funny is the fact that you think that the people who should make the decision of who is worthy of life are the highschool bullies. Even if you believe in eugenics (Which most of humanity seems to have realized as a disgusting idea), i have a hard time thinking of people who are less qualified to guide a human self-breeding program
On May 13 2016 15:17 SK.Testie wrote: Well there's the other world view that bullying and shaming makes us stronger as a whole and the weak of the herd die off. If you can't handle ignorant jerks, which will always exist, do you even deserve to live among the strong? What if you became a weakling in the herd yourself, and needed 24/7 care? Would you prefer to pull the plug and take yourself out so to not burden anyone? Or would you cling to life?
I'm going to read the best I can into this to find a way it's not just absurdly offensive...
Anyone who subscribes to this thinking doesn't get to whine about "PC police" or "SJW's" or any of that. When the "PC police" gain enough influence so that they can't go anywhere outside of their home and express themselves and they feel hopelessly trapped in a society that deems their existence outside of those social norms too inconvenient to deal with, to the point they would rather kill themselves than suffer through another day, we can just blame them and call them weak.
Or, we could, you know, treat them with dignity and respect and reasonably expect the same in return. People outside of the traditionally marginalized groups have experienced the most gentle shadows of what marginalized groups have always faced and they are already breaking rule 1 of being oppressed + Show Spoiler +
(don't complain, and if you do, you better do it how the people your complaining about want you to, which again, is not at all)
If people weren't so rigid in their thinking about how the genders should feel and act I wonder if that would help some people. If we treated people as individuals instead of whatever biological markers we observe then not putting conscious and unconscious pressure on people to act in the "role they were born with" then this would be a lot less of a problem. If "female behaviors/interests and male behaviors/interests" didn't have a gender attached to them would some transgender people even feel different? I am not too familiar myself on this particular issue but I think in some cases people actually feel like their body is wrong for what their brain tells them? Its a complex issue that has influences coming from the biological and environmental side as well as the cultural one.
On May 13 2016 15:17 SK.Testie wrote: Well there's the other world view that bullying and shaming makes us stronger as a whole and the weak of the herd die off. If you can't handle ignorant jerks, which will always exist, do you even deserve to live among the strong? What if you became a weakling in the herd yourself, and needed 24/7 care? Would you prefer to pull the plug and take yourself out so to not burden anyone? Or would you cling to life?
This is like social justice crap except it makes social conservatism look dumb instead of liberalism.
I've spent a lot of time watching college campus debates on the topic of social injustice, feminism, freedom of speech, political correctness etc. You would be surprised warriors how downright retarded most of these social justice are. The whole thing with political correctness has went to far with stuff like safe spaces, microaggressions, trigger warnings, rape culture and basically comes down to these students feeling emotionally violated by different opinions and advocating to ban them at all cost, demanding protection from them (safe spaces), and generally being the most obnoxious hecklers at the debates while in the same time advocating freedom of speech. The irony. The colleges, as I see it, have enabled and empowered these freedom nazis and real hate driven maniacs, because they were forced to do so by the government (apparentlly government threathened the colleges that it will withdraw public funding if they don't start condoning to these people). I mean these "third wave feminists" claim that 1 in 4 women on campus have been raped (thus the "rape culture") which is obviously insane. It equalls campus to todays war driven Syria on rape numbers.
On the issue of transgenderism and this insane political correctness, just for implying that maybe it is a health disorder deema you a hate speech sexist or whatever, while in fact it could be exactly that.
While I am all against bullying anyone, on the other side I am more with Testie on this because by overly protecting everyones emotions from the slightest displeasure you have effectivelly created and empowered these insane extremists and cancerous third wave feminists that openly hate on WHITE men (they protect minorities tho, like muslims, who obviously have a problem with gender equallity).
TL's problem is that, you are all smart and reasonable guys, and you mistakenly when discussing this issue assume that most other people are smart and reasonable aswell, which is just not the case. These people are first of all full of hatred for to me unknown reason, they are plain stupid in most cases, and they abuse heavilly the protection given to them by the stte and are at the same time encouraged by this protection to become even more of the nutjobs they are.
So while obviously blatant bullying is wrong, overly protecting everyones emotions is just as bad, if not worse.
Safe spaces are ridiculous and incredibly sad. It's censorship.
Testie is on the complete other side of the spectrum though and that's equally ridiculous. Bullying causes incredible suffering to people. In addition to that these people who are bullied impose a huge cost on society by both medical care and because a lot of them can never employ their capabilities to the fullest.
Okay, I am sick of this alt-right/speech freedom fighter bullshit that is poisoning the other spectrum political discourse. No one likes SJWs, and they have had a place in the left and they are losing popularity. Whether it was from SJWs or insufferably boring post-structural texts, the left has become heavily associated with identity politics rather than empowering the working class which is heavily correlated with pathetic presence after the 2008 financial crisis. And when I was working with feminist groups, what really pissed me off- Actually no, I am not going to preach to the choir here. The alt-right/anti-regressive left politics is SJW politics turned on its head. Just like SJWs, the alt-right does not really seem to concern itself with economics, geo-politics, or domestic policy, but rather engaging in a spirited debate about discrimination against men, debunking feminist myths, and other issues that are relatively insignificant. Both sides have obscure jargon to explain a dominating ideology that controls our lives, Patriarchy vs Cultural Marxism/Political Correctness. Both of them claim to talk about real issues, but more often than not, comes off as first world problems. Oh, and this is the most infuriating. Both use strong words to shut down and ruin conversation. In feminist meetings, nothing was more infuriating than being called a sexist for not agreeing that Miley Cyrus's wrecking ball or not supporting fat acceptance, and on the other side, I hear people making a legitimate points in a conversation only to have it shut down by being called an SJW or cuck. That is right-wing political correctness at its best. We know the insufferable nature of many people involved in identity politics, but man, the next few years of politics is going to be just as bad now that the reaction to identity politics is using the same exact tactics, but with more annoying shitposting. Welcome to the death of political discourse.
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping directive telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.
A letter to school districts will go out Friday, fueling a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education Department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.
It does not have the force of law, but it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.
The move is certain to draw fresh criticism, particularly from Republicans, that the federal government is wading into local matters and imposing its own values on communities across the country that may not agree. It represents the latest example of the Obama administration using a combination of policies, lawsuits and public statements to change the civil rights landscape for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people.
After supporting the rights of gay people to marry, allowing them to serve openly in the military and prohibiting federal contractors from discriminating against them, the administration has made bathrooms its latest battleground.
What a shitty and completely irrelevant policy. There's entire schools without a single transgendered student because it's so rare. A direct threat to schools for not accepting their morality? At what age are children even smart enough to be considering what their sex is?
Can ignore what's in the spoiler as it's just personal musing / thoughts on transgender issue. + Show Spoiler +
This transgender bathroom issue is really drummed up I feel. That one's much harder to really care for since I've known a few transgender users online and it's a little different than gay marriage. Even though most gay guys I've known were extremely promiscuous and loved being drugged up and full of dick it always felt like gay marriage was inevitable and would always happen eventually and just simply be the right thing.
First off, transgender is like 0.3% of the population or less. This isn't the most pressing issue of the presidency. It's not even in the top 100. Second of all, there's a lot of different information saying that trans people may have a mental condition that can be treated with 10mg or some pill I forget the name of. I didn't believe it when a few old hon players told me it was a mental issue but it seems that it could very well be the case. Considering their suicide statistics (often from after surgery feeling it was a horrible mistake) is it the left or the right which is less caring on this issue? If 10mg of some pill 'cures' transgender why are we talking about bathrooms?
Thirdly, mothers who are talking about how their little boys are really little girls at the age or 4-5 are disturbing. Not encouraging. That's not powerful or progressive and it's not open minded. Your child quite simply does not know what is best for him/her. This is where you're supposed to use your own wisdom as a parent to guide your child.
The Republicans talk about perverts using this to their advantage, that's actually not that crazy. I'm pretty convinced that there's more sexual predators than there are transgendered people in the world. Now a social outcast pedophile simply knows he has to throw on a dress, go outside, and once people accept that as the new norm he can go anywhere he wants without too many odd looks.
I don't know, feels like a complete non-issue that really shouldn't be brought up unless I see very hard evidence that, 'yes it's not a mental condition.' Every community I've ever been a part of has been extremely tolerant, accepting, and kind to transgendered people that I know of.
So my worry on that issue isn't that they're being ostracized to death, it's that our kindness may be the wrong choice and in fact more cruel when instead they need a, "Hey... take this medication it should help" because I'm pretty sure most people would rather see you medicated than dead.
Don't know, used to play Dota with a transgendered guy daily for years and I hope that in loving and accepting the guy I made the right choice because I didn't know at the time there were pills that could possibly cure it and lead to a more stable and happier life that won't result in suicide.
It's neither shitty nor irrelevant, as it's aimed towards a level of equity for a group of people in this country. To say that it's useless because it doesn't affect enough people means you don't quite understand the idea of civil rights laws protecting minorities from the ignorant majority.
And if there are schools that have zero transgendered students, then this directive isn't currently affecting them (although it may be relevant in the future for them), so it's not an issue (yet you make it one as if this is a point in your favor). However, there do exist students who are "in the closet"/ feel like they don't belong/ are afraid of being ostracized because of their gender identity, and it would be great if schools- which should act like safe havens for students- were actually safe for students.
On May 13 2016 15:17 SK.Testie wrote: Well there's the other world view that bullying and shaming makes us stronger as a whole and the weak of the herd die off. If you can't handle ignorant jerks, which will always exist, do you even deserve to live among the strong? What if you became a weakling in the herd yourself, and needed 24/7 care? Would you prefer to pull the plug and take yourself out so to not burden anyone? Or would you cling to life?
And quite frankly, people with this "other world view" don't know what the hell they're talking about.Not all world views are created equally, and apparently not all world views have considered suicide and bullying data appropriately. "Suck it up" mentality as an antidote for persecution has been refuted for a very, very long time now... civil rights movements? Also, holy apathy, Batman. If I remember correctly, this isn't the first (or second or third) time that you've come off acting like a tactless jerk in this thread.
EPT
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