|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 05 2016 04:51 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 04:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 05 2016 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Just go back to 2008. That is legitimately the worst example you could cite. Hillary conceded before the convention. Check out what she said and the grace with which she said it: The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.
Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/07/hillaryclinton.uselections20081 And she did that to prevent some of her delegates that refused to vote for obama from voting for her for the presidential nomination. How is it going to play if 30-40% of the room is hostile to the nominee? No one is going to be motivated for the fall and the general campaign will collapse at the starting blocks.
Of course Sanders will have a seat at the table, there is no doubt. No one is arguing that won’t happen. But there isn’t going to be a floor fight or anything along those lines if he wants that seat.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
bernie has some leverage because he's holding a portion of his voters firmly in hostage, but he should be careful not to push it too far.
first, there's a significant portion of his supporters who are not that strongly attached. those don't need to be won over. the portion that needs to be won over are not at that point because of the policies, which are either similar or ridiculous on bernie's part. they are at that stage because of a conspiratorial view of dem politics and society at large. they basically see no value in the current system. 'make things worse so the revolution can be stronger' etc.
bernie has pretty significant influence over this part, but it's not as easy as a simple endorsement. he has to do considerable work to undo the damage he and his campaign already have done. this sort of change from either bernie or his campaign is rather unlikely. it's not even about getting the people to vote, but to change the very negative tone he has on the democratic party and repudiate the attacks the sandernistas have unleashed. this negativity has serious consequences for the future of the democratic party in terms of grabbing the young vote while keeping a set of sound policies.
at the end of the day bernie is the piper who needs to learn a new trick and lead his band back from the cave. he has the responsibility to do something and show that he is capable of this, or there is no reason to take him seriously.
|
On May 05 2016 04:51 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 04:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 05 2016 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Just go back to 2008. That is legitimately the worst example you could cite. Hillary conceded before the convention. Check out what she said and the grace with which she said it: The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.
Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/07/hillaryclinton.uselections20081 And she did that to prevent some of her delegates that refused to vote for obama from voting for her for the presidential nomination. How is it going to play if 30-40% of the room is hostile to the nominee? No one is going to be motivated for the fall and the general campaign will collapse at the starting blocks.
Yeah but thats not going to happen. Even if Bernie vows to fight to the end, he doesn't have the delegates to win, and most of his delegates and supporters aren't going to self destruct the party and leave trump in the white house
|
On May 05 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 04:51 Sermokala wrote:On May 05 2016 04:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 05 2016 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Just go back to 2008. That is legitimately the worst example you could cite. Hillary conceded before the convention. Check out what she said and the grace with which she said it: The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.
Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/07/hillaryclinton.uselections20081 And she did that to prevent some of her delegates that refused to vote for obama from voting for her for the presidential nomination. How is it going to play if 30-40% of the room is hostile to the nominee? No one is going to be motivated for the fall and the general campaign will collapse at the starting blocks. Of course Sanders will have a seat at the table, there is no doubt. No one is arguing that won’t happen. But there isn’t going to be a floor fight or anything along those lines if he wants that seat.
Then you can agree he has a reason to continue his campaign to the convention in order to increase his power at that table?
People are arguing that his campaign is solely designed to win the seat at the head of the table and that he should stop his campaign now for it.
"The Bernie problem" has an easy playbook to it and can be delt with easily and slowly. If the DFL doesn't fuck it up it can't lose in the fall. Otherwise its going to be an election.
On May 05 2016 04:58 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 04:51 Sermokala wrote:On May 05 2016 04:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 05 2016 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Just go back to 2008. That is legitimately the worst example you could cite. Hillary conceded before the convention. Check out what she said and the grace with which she said it: The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.
Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/07/hillaryclinton.uselections20081 And she did that to prevent some of her delegates that refused to vote for obama from voting for her for the presidential nomination. How is it going to play if 30-40% of the room is hostile to the nominee? No one is going to be motivated for the fall and the general campaign will collapse at the starting blocks. Yeah but thats not going to happen. Even if Bernie vows to fight to the end, he doesn't have the delegates to win, and most of his delegates and supporters aren't going to self destruct the party and leave trump in the white house
really? with all the #bernieorbust attitute and the anti Establishment theme going on there arn't some people that would rather support trump over Hillary (even in an admittedly terrible decision logically that is)?
At the very least there is a margin of votes in bernie supporters that will be lost if hillary and the DFL just flips the bird on them and doesn't entertain any bernie at the convention. If Bernie wills he he can make the convention a shit place to be for a weekend at the very least.
On May 05 2016 04:57 oneofthem wrote:
bernie has some leverage because he's holding a portion of his voters firmly in hostage, but he should be careful not to push it too far.
first, there's a significant portion of his supporters who are not that strongly attached. those don't need to be won over. the portion that needs to be won over are not at that point because of the policies, which are either similar or ridiculous on bernie's part. they are at that stage because of a conspiratorial view of dem politics and society at large that basically see no value in the current system. 'make things worse so the revolution can be stronger' etc.
bernie has pretty significant influence over this part, but it's not as easy as a simple endorsement. he has to do considerable work to undo the damage he and his campaign already has done. this sort of change from either bernie or his campaign is rather unlikely. it's not even about getting the people to vote, but to change the very negative tone he has on the democratic party and repudiate the attacks the sandernistas have unleashed. this has serious consequences for the future of the democratic party in terms of grabbing the young vote while keeping a set of sound policies.
at the end of the day bernie is the piper who needs to learn a new trick and lead his band back from the cave. he has the responsibility to do something and show that he is capable of this, or there is no reason to take him seriously.
Oh please don't be so dramatic. This is america, a single handshake/photo op and everything is forgiven. Bernie is the piper that needs to be paid for the trick he does to bring the party back together. Only he can unite the clans to defeat the great orange darkness.
|
On May 05 2016 05:00 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On May 05 2016 04:51 Sermokala wrote:On May 05 2016 04:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 05 2016 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Just go back to 2008. That is legitimately the worst example you could cite. Hillary conceded before the convention. Check out what she said and the grace with which she said it: The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.
Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/07/hillaryclinton.uselections20081 And she did that to prevent some of her delegates that refused to vote for obama from voting for her for the presidential nomination. How is it going to play if 30-40% of the room is hostile to the nominee? No one is going to be motivated for the fall and the general campaign will collapse at the starting blocks. Of course Sanders will have a seat at the table, there is no doubt. No one is arguing that won’t happen. But there isn’t going to be a floor fight or anything along those lines if he wants that seat. Then you can agree he has a reason to continue his campaign to the convention in order to increase his power at that table? People are arguing that his campaign is solely designed to win the seat at the head of the table and that he should stop his campaign now for it. "The Bernie problem" has an easy playbook to it and can be delt with easily and slowly. If the DFL doesn't fuck it up it can't lose in the fall. Otherwise its going to be an election.
There is a very real concern that ongoing conflict in the DNC is not good for them in the general election, so Bernie could leverage that over staying in the race until June. With that in mind, it might be harmful for him to stay in until the end just out of spite while the DNC is trying to settle on things that he is looking for. There is no clear cut route that is better for him, but working with the DNC is likely a better deal if he can work it out.
|
U.S. Justice Department officials Wednesday notified Gov. Pat McCrory that House Bill 2 violates the U.S. Civil Rights Act.
The department gave state officials until Monday to address the situation “by confirming that the State will not comply with or implement HB2.”
The letter says HB2, which pre-empted Charlotte’s anti-discrimination ordinance, violates Title IX of the Civil Rights Act, which bars discrimination in education based on sex, and Title VII, which bars employers from discriminating.
If that determination is upheld, North Carolina could lose millions in federal school funding. During the current school year, state public schools received $861 million in federal funding.
In the letter, Vanita Gupta, principal deputy assistant attorney general, said, “”...The Department of Justice has determined that, as a result of compliance with and implementation of NC House Bill2, both you and the state of NC are in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act 0f 1964...
“Title VII prohibits an employer from discriminating against an individual on the basis of sex and from otherwise resisting the full enjoyment of Title VII rights....
“Federal courts and administrative agencies have applied Title VII to discrimination against transgender individuals based on sex, including gender identity....
“Access to sex-segregated restrooms and other workplace facilities consistent with gender identity is a term, condition or privilege of employment. Denying such access to transgender individuals, whose gender identity is different from the gender assigned at birth, while affording it to similarly situated non-transgender employees, violates Title VII …
“HB 2...is facially discriminatory against transgender employees on the basis of sex because it treats transgender employees, whose gender identity does not match their biological sex, as defined by HB2, differently from similarly situated non transgender employees…
US Justice Department: HB2 violates federal Civil Rights Act
|
At this point I'm convinced Trump will host a special season of the Apprentice and the winner gets the VP slot
|
On May 05 2016 05:55 ticklishmusic wrote:
At this point I'm convinced Trump will host a special season of the Apprentice and the winner gets the VP slot
That why he's spending so little on his campaign, the entire thing was a marketing stunt to promote his show and make money.
|
He just announced his first 100 days plan. They included designing the wall, banning immigration of Muslims and repealing the ACA. Good stuff, good stuff.
|
your Country52798 Posts
On May 05 2016 06:01 Plansix wrote:
He just announced his first 100 days plan. They included designing the wall, banning immigration of Muslims and repealing the ACA. Good stuff, good stuff.
Well, I mean, none of that is surprising.
|
On May 05 2016 06:04 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 06:01 Plansix wrote:
He just announced his first 100 days plan. They included designing the wall, banning immigration of Muslims and repealing the ACA. Good stuff, good stuff. Well, I mean, none of that is surprising.
To those theorizing a masterful “shift left once he has the nomination” it might be. But those folks seem to believe he ever had a plan to begin with.
But glad he is back on the whole banning Muslims thing. People might have forgetting that brain child of his.
|
Video footage obtained by the Guardian shows the grueling firefight between US special forces, Kurdish commandoes and Islamic State fighters this week, in which a US Navy Seal was killed.
The footage – filmed on a cellphone during the battle, which lasted more than half a day – reveals the extent to which the US military is once again engaged in intense combat in Iraq.
Provided to the Guardian by the lieutenant of an elite Kurdish peshmerga unit, the video shows a convoy of four by four vehicles coming under fire near Tel Osqof, a Christian town about 30km north of Mosul.
Amid the crackle of gunfire, peshmerga fighters and at least six US troops take cover behind an unarmored pickup truck on an arterial road leading into the town.
One of the Americans appears to be saying “I don’t have a gun”, as another says, “I have a gun over here.”
A peshmerga shouts: “Please save up your bullets.”
Another peshmerga fighter asks: “Can we not ask for AK-47 bullets from the Americans?”
Lieutenant Saad, the peshmerga fighter who shot part of the footage, praised the US forces that aided the Kurds in repelling the Isis assault: “If it was not for the American firepower, we would have more casualties. They are really good fighters.”
Source
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
he's obviously going to pull back on some part of his persona. the race baiting etc. there is a core populist platform he has that can have appeal, given proper packaging.
|
On May 05 2016 06:11 oneofthem wrote:
he's obviously going to pull back on some part of his persona. the race baiting etc. there is a core populist platform he has that can have appeal, given proper packaging.
I would agree with you but this 100day plan seems to paint a different picture.
|
On May 05 2016 06:01 Plansix wrote:
He just announced his first 100 days plan. They included designing the wall, banning immigration of Muslims and repealing the ACA. Good stuff, good stuff.
Where did you get this Trump announcement?
On May 05 2016 06:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 06:11 oneofthem wrote:
he's obviously going to pull back on some part of his persona. the race baiting etc. there is a core populist platform he has that can have appeal, given proper packaging.
I would agree with you but this 100day plan seems to paint a different picture.
He didn't actually announce anything, any new plan. The NYT just decided it was a good time to collect his best hits from the 8 months of the campaign trail and run it as a news story.
|
On May 05 2016 06:13 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 06:01 Plansix wrote:
He just announced his first 100 days plan. They included designing the wall, banning immigration of Muslims and repealing the ACA. Good stuff, good stuff. Where did you get this Trump announcement? Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 06:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 05 2016 06:11 oneofthem wrote:
he's obviously going to pull back on some part of his persona. the race baiting etc. there is a core populist platform he has that can have appeal, given proper packaging.
I would agree with you but this 100day plan seems to paint a different picture. He didn't actually announce anything, any new plan. The NYT just decided it was a good time to collect his best hits from the 8 months of the campaign trail and run it as a news story.
I read it incorrectly due to another article picking it up as an announcement. That way my error. He has been talking about it with reporters for a while now apparently.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/us/politics/donald-trump-president.html?ref=politics&_r=0
|
On May 05 2016 06:01 Plansix wrote:
He just announced his first 100 days plan. They included designing the wall, banning immigration of Muslims and repealing the ACA. Good stuff, good stuff.
Confirmed Clinton plant. Encouraging Bernie to run 3rd party right off the bat so that it is his idea to begin with.
|
On May 05 2016 05:09 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 05:00 Sermokala wrote:On May 05 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On May 05 2016 04:51 Sermokala wrote:On May 05 2016 04:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On May 05 2016 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Just go back to 2008. That is legitimately the worst example you could cite. Hillary conceded before the convention. Check out what she said and the grace with which she said it: The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.
Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/07/hillaryclinton.uselections20081 And she did that to prevent some of her delegates that refused to vote for obama from voting for her for the presidential nomination. How is it going to play if 30-40% of the room is hostile to the nominee? No one is going to be motivated for the fall and the general campaign will collapse at the starting blocks. Of course Sanders will have a seat at the table, there is no doubt. No one is arguing that won’t happen. But there isn’t going to be a floor fight or anything along those lines if he wants that seat. Then you can agree he has a reason to continue his campaign to the convention in order to increase his power at that table? People are arguing that his campaign is solely designed to win the seat at the head of the table and that he should stop his campaign now for it. "The Bernie problem" has an easy playbook to it and can be delt with easily and slowly. If the DFL doesn't fuck it up it can't lose in the fall. Otherwise its going to be an election. There is a very real concern that ongoing conflict in the DNC is not good for them in the general election, so Bernie could leverage that over staying in the race until June. With that in mind, it might be harmful for him to stay in until the end just out of spite while the DNC is trying to settle on things that he is looking for. There is no clear cut route that is better for him, but working with the DNC is likely a better deal if he can work it out.
That sounds like exactly the kind of thing Bernie will do. Its not exactly out of character for him to rather burn down the house than accept that he is in the wrong. His supporters are the same way. Its part of the reason I didn't want him to be the guy with his finger on the nukes.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it would really help things if bernie has some sort of legit policy. what kind of platform does he really want to negotiate given his radically antagonistic view of reality?
the reality is that the sensible part of his platform is already in hillary's. what's he gonna want? it's not hillary the republican refusing to negotiate with bernie. a lot of his stuff would seriously harm poor americans and use up valuable resources for unproductive spending.
|
On May 05 2016 06:31 oneofthem wrote:
it would really help things if bernie has some sort of legit policy. what kind of platform does he really want to negotiate given his radically antagonistic view of reality?
the reality is that the sensible part of his platform is already in hillary's. what's he gonna want? it's not hillary the republican refusing to negotiate with bernie. a lot of his stuff would seriously harm poor americans and use up valuable resources for unproductive spending.
Bernie could negotiate an end to money in Democratic-party-only politics. Right after he gets Hillary to discharge his campaign debt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
