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On March 31 2016 04:07 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't think these 10 hours are gonna be shitty service jobs... if anything it'll be replacing those. It'll probably be stuff like the Federal Workstudy Program.
I have immense sympathy for those who have to work insane hours to just pay for college. Hillary's plan means they won't have to, they just need 10 hours.
That's what the proponents of the original federal work-study program said too, keep in mind, and federal work study kids are put in cafeterias and dorms all the time.
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On March 31 2016 04:09 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2016 04:07 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't think these 10 hours are gonna be shitty service jobs... if anything it'll be replacing those. It'll probably be stuff like the Federal Workstudy Program.
I have immense sympathy for those who have to work insane hours to just pay for college. Hillary's plan means they won't have to, they just need 10 hours. That's what the proponents of the original federal work-study program said too, keep in mind, and federal work study kids are put in cafeterias and dorms all the time.
I've never heard that, and I remember looking at the FWS jobs back when I was a student. There were good ones like working in labs or off campus with non profits and such, but I think the "worst" were receptionist and librarian type jobs. Which were pretty cushy gigs honestly, you sat around and did work or goofed off.
Even if there are bad jobs, then reform that system. I think 10 hours a week of work in addition to studying + classes is fine. There will be accommodations made for extenuating circumstances no doubt, I have no sympathy for those who aren't exempt that can't put that in. 10 hours a week-- let's say a public college is 20K a year, 10K a semester, so ~12 weeks for 800 bucks a week. 10 hours a week. that's an effective value of $80/hr, which is amazing.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
there's not much specificity but i imagine the plan is to integrate industry into education a bit more than it is now. create a pool of labor and offer it as opportunity to get some work training benefits for students.
the 10 hour thing is influenced by this study suggesting that uncapped work during school negatively affected grades, but a 10 hour work study thing didn't pose that negative burden on academics.
i really don't think the point of the 10 hour work program is the money. it may be built into a program that meaningfully give students more of the critical industry experience needed to get a start.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
btw is it possible for hillary to nominate obama to be her vice president?
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I'd like to see Obama as Supreme Court judge
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On March 31 2016 04:28 oneofthem wrote:
btw is it possible for hillary to nominate obama to be her vice president?
apparently yes... there were some calls for a gore - clinton ticket back in the day 
and for one of the weirder outgrowths:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0613/p09s02-coop.html
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On March 31 2016 04:13 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2016 04:09 farvacola wrote:On March 31 2016 04:07 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't think these 10 hours are gonna be shitty service jobs... if anything it'll be replacing those. It'll probably be stuff like the Federal Workstudy Program.
I have immense sympathy for those who have to work insane hours to just pay for college. Hillary's plan means they won't have to, they just need 10 hours. That's what the proponents of the original federal work-study program said too, keep in mind, and federal work study kids are put in cafeterias and dorms all the time. I've never heard that, and I remember looking at the FWS jobs back when I was a student. There were good ones like working in labs or off campus with non profits and such, but I think the "worst" were receptionist and librarian type jobs. Which were pretty cushy gigs honestly, you sat around and did work or goofed off. Even if there are bad jobs, then reform that system. I think 10 hours a week of work in addition to studying + classes is fine. There will be accommodations made for extenuating circumstances no doubt, I have no sympathy for those who aren't exempt that can't put that in. 10 hours a week-- let's say a public college is 20K a year, 10K a semester, so ~12 weeks for 800 bucks a week. 10 hours a week. that's an effective value of $80/hr, which is amazing.
10 hrs of work is for students to achieve debt free tuition. As far as I understand, many students would still have to work much more in order to cover all of their other expenses.
So it's really just a minimum of 10 hours. If you're on your own, you'd be doing 10 hrs for tuition plus the 20-40hrs you need to pay to live.
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Canada11369 Posts
@Mohodo and clutz
I never worked while going to university, except in the four months off, but even then my Parks job was pretty irrelevant to my eventual teaching job except to say I was a loyal employee. It would be pretty hard to find paid work in the teaching profession. You could volunteer, but there's not a lot of employment that directly helps except in the most generic sense. (Most student teachers I knew, tended to work in retail during the semester.)
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On March 31 2016 04:30 Nyxisto wrote:
I'd like to see Obama as Supreme Court judge
He needs to nominate Mitch McConnell so I can want the Republican implode with confusion. The conflict would be real.
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Glad Anderson Cooper did a good job here -- moving forward, I think there's a good chance journalists will stop giving Trump a pass on his pants-on-fire claims. Of course, the Fox News moderators were among the first ones to really do live fact-checking of his statements, so props to them as well. It's really a welcome sight given how frequent it has become for some public figures (especially on the Republican side -- remember the website that was devoted to counting Romney's lies on the campaign trail?) to lie on air.
There was a moment during Tuesday's Republican town hall event in Milwaukee when a voter stood up and asked Ted Cruz to name his greatest personal failing. CNN moderator Anderson Cooper decided to volunteer his own, too: "My greatest failing is sometimes I don't follow up."
Not on Tuesday. Cooper was cordial but relentless as he pressed the candidates — particularly Cruz and Donald Trump — to explain their positions, to stay on topic, and to stop acting like children.
"But, sir, with all due respect, that's the argument of 5-year-old," Cooper told Trump when the GOP front-runner protested that he "didn't start" last week's shameful feud with Cruz that involved both candidates' wives.[...]
Butting in as often as Cooper did in Wisconsin required him to abandon conventional principles. It was also hard because of the sheer volume of Trump's misleading claims and because the billionaire hates to be interrupted. He's always ready to take back control of the conversation with a forceful "excuse me."
In fact, Trump wound up dropping 18 "excuse mes" on Cooper in one hour.
It wasn't just real-time fact-checking that made Cooper's session with Trump so good. He also showed an ear for subtle inconsistencies and refused to let them slide.
Source
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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The trend with Trump is showing that that man is incapable of saying he was wrong or mistaken. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence direct in front of his face, he simply refuses. He begs Cooper to read the reporters statement, claiming she lied about falling. Cooper reads the statement, where she specifically says she did not fall and Trump declares victory.
Its sad to watch and the general election is going to be an embarrassment.
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On March 31 2016 04:31 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2016 04:13 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 31 2016 04:09 farvacola wrote:On March 31 2016 04:07 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't think these 10 hours are gonna be shitty service jobs... if anything it'll be replacing those. It'll probably be stuff like the Federal Workstudy Program.
I have immense sympathy for those who have to work insane hours to just pay for college. Hillary's plan means they won't have to, they just need 10 hours. That's what the proponents of the original federal work-study program said too, keep in mind, and federal work study kids are put in cafeterias and dorms all the time. I've never heard that, and I remember looking at the FWS jobs back when I was a student. There were good ones like working in labs or off campus with non profits and such, but I think the "worst" were receptionist and librarian type jobs. Which were pretty cushy gigs honestly, you sat around and did work or goofed off. Even if there are bad jobs, then reform that system. I think 10 hours a week of work in addition to studying + classes is fine. There will be accommodations made for extenuating circumstances no doubt, I have no sympathy for those who aren't exempt that can't put that in. 10 hours a week-- let's say a public college is 20K a year, 10K a semester, so ~12 weeks for 800 bucks a week. 10 hours a week. that's an effective value of $80/hr, which is amazing. 10 hrs of work is for students to achieve debt free tuition. As far as I understand, many students would still have to work much more in order to cover all of their other expenses. So it's really just a minimum of 10 hours. If you're on your own, you'd be doing 10 hrs for tuition plus the 20-40hrs you need to pay to live.
Still doesn't change the fact those are 10 really, really well-paying hours.
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On March 31 2016 04:31 Falling wrote:
@Mohodo and clutz
I never worked while going to university, except in the four months off, but even then my Parks job was pretty irrelevant to my eventual teaching job except to say I was a loyal employee. It would be pretty hard to find paid work in the teaching profession. You could volunteer, but there's not a lot of employment that directly helps except in the most generic sense. (Most student teachers I knew, tended to work in retail during the semester.)
I translated math books.
There's always part-time teaching.
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If you're into education do tutoring or try and be a TA for some class. Tutoring also pays a ridiculous amount, had a friend who got paid $100/hr for accounting help no kidding. More usual rates were like $30 for an hour.
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I don't understand how people that are selected by having a life with free time for (a bit more complicated and time intensive) games and resources for talking about them over the internet (so mostly successful and not struggling to make ends meet) can think that their positive experiences in life anecdotically refute societal problems...
"i had no trouble finding a job" does not help in a society with increasing population, stagnating employment (for decades) and a comming horizon of huge job losses due to automation (transportation for instance)
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Apparently Trump is now saying there should be some sort of punishment for abortion, but he isn't sure what it should be. Really unclear who should be punished, but likely everyone involved? Maybe. The man is a nightmare.
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On March 31 2016 04:51 Plansix wrote:
Apparently Trump is now saying there should be some sort of punishment for abortion, but he isn't sure what it should be. Really unclear who should be punished, but likely everyone involved? Maybe. The man is a nightmare.
Every anti-Choicer without the balls to name a punishment is a lying coward. I commend Trump for having the forthrightness and honesty to actually state the consequences of his advocated policy choice. If you think abortion is murder, then the punishment should be the same as murder. Anti-choicers are just afraid that people will turn on them if they heard the consequence of their ridiculous advocacy.
Compare Trump to Cruz/Rubio. Cruz/Rubio are/were "no abortions no exceptions" candidates who want abortion banned in every last circumstance. They never manned up and said what the punishment would be. They expect abortions to simply be legislated away without any legal consequences for violating the law. That is raw political cowardice. Cruz/Rubio know that they will lose any hope of a general election win if they name the punishments they have in mind for abortion seekers and abortion practitioners so they hide the necessary consequences of their position. A journalist is desperately needed to push "no exceptions" Cruz on just what kind of punishments will be necessary to deter abortions.
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On March 31 2016 04:37 Plansix wrote:
The trend with Trump is showing that that man is incapable of saying he was wrong or mistaken. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence direct in front of his face, he simply refuses. He begs Cooper to read the reporters statement, claiming she lied about falling. Cooper reads the statement, where she specifically says she did not fall and Trump declares victory.
Its sad to watch and the general election is going to be an embarrassment.
Hey, when life gives you a base that lives in an entirely different reality from the one everyone else lives in, you double down on living in their reality and they will warp their reality around yours to reward you. It's sound strategy. Pretty spineless and unprincipled (at least in my opinion), but sound.
On March 31 2016 04:54 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2016 04:51 Plansix wrote:
Apparently Trump is now saying there should be some sort of punishment for abortion, but he isn't sure what it should be. Really unclear who should be punished, but likely everyone involved? Maybe. The man is a nightmare. Every anti-Choicer without the balls to name a punishment is a lying coward. I commend Trump for having the forthrightness and honesty to actually state the consequences of his advocated policy choice. If you think abortion is murder, then the punishment should be the same as murder. Anti-choicers are just afraid that people will turn on them if they heard the consequence of their ridiculous advocacy.
I'd commend Trump for forthrightness and honesty if he wasn't just saying something extreme to get on the air again, which is most likely what he was doing given his past record on abortion.
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On March 31 2016 04:31 Falling wrote:
@Mohodo and clutz
I never worked while going to university, except in the four months off, but even then my Parks job was pretty irrelevant to my eventual teaching job except to say I was a loyal employee. It would be pretty hard to find paid work in the teaching profession. You could volunteer, but there's not a lot of employment that directly helps except in the most generic sense. (Most student teachers I knew, tended to work in retail during the semester.)
I was a TA at uni. That paid well and gave me relevant experience. Of course, to become a TA you have to do quite well at the subject, so it's not for everybody (and I went to Uni in the Netherlands, no clue whether TA is a paying job in the US), but it's merit based rather than only for the "elite"
Related @GH: honestly, I'm not sure what you want. Even Bernie isn't going to make studying free: you still have to pay your living arrangements. And nor should it be, plus you can still get a student debt to pay for your living expenses while you study. Expecting money to not make any difference at all is not something you want (I suggest moving to Cuba), and there will always be privileged people.
I personally agree with this point of Bernie's: tuition in PUBLIC universities/colleges should be free (or low enough that it's negligible). Create other controls to stop people mooching off the system (or something like in NL, where tuition isn't free, but you get a government loan to pay for it: if you complete a degree within X (I believe 5) years, your loan is converted to a gift. If you drop out halfway and never complete anything, you have to pay the loan back). The work I did at uni was to pay for my living costs. My parents helped me during the first 2 years, after that I was pretty much independent (once again, in NL). I believe a system like that creates a pretty good balance of opportunity, work ethic, and fiscal responsibility.
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EPT
