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On March 17 2016 08:38 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women? In glass houses.
Well played 
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On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women?
You're really going to get nitpicky about the type of weapon used to implement violence?
Women get shot in the united states for telling men they aren't interested. So don't pretend that shit doesn't happen here.
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On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah
Just to be clear there are western Christians who go to places where stuff like that (or just state sanctioned homicide) is a legal punishment for homosexuality and they advocate for it.
For years now, evangelical activists from the United States have been injecting themselves into African politics, speaking out against homosexuality and cheering on antigay legislation on the continent. The influence of these groups has been well documented in Uganda. The now-defunct Exodus International, for example, sent Don Schmierer, a board member, to Uganda in 2009 to speak at a conference alongside Scott Lively, a pastor who was later sued by a Ugandan gay rights group for his role in promoting human rights violations against LGBTQ people. The two participated in a disturbing antigay conference, where speakers blamed homosexuals for the rise of Nazism and the Rwandan genocide, among other abhorrent acts. Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, a hard-right Christian group that is active in US politics as well, similarly supported antigay laws in Uganda. At the peak of the controversy over the “kill the gays” bill, Perkins praised the Ugandan president for “leading his nation to repentance.”
Source
Today, the Cruz for President campaign announced the endorsement of Tony Perkins. Perkins is the Family Research Council’s (FRC)
Source
Christians in America not advocating killing homosexuals for being homosexual is more about our laws than it is about some moral/religious opposition to it (at least for our extremists/presidential candidates).
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On March 17 2016 08:34 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:04 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? OH I'm sorry that I forgot that we live in a black and white world. There is no such things as different degrees, only bad or good. If you seriously think women are treated as badly in the United States or the western world, you are completely clueless. Obviously women have issues here, but can you really argue that it is ANYWHERE near the same level? I don't even know what to say... You tried to reference an incredibly smart and incredibly liberal Egyptian woman in support of the notion that Islam, in the general sense, deserves special scrutiny relative to the plight of women. It is very obvious that you have likely only read a tiny, tiny portion of her work, namely the portion that might seem to inform the viewpoint that Islam is especially bad. Unfortunately for you, El Saafadi's work mostly revolves around establishing that religion, in the general sense, oppresses women as a matter of function and its relationship with capitalism, not that Islam is especially bad relative to Christianity. So yeah, if you would ask her to back you while you argue that the West is superior to the Arab world in its treatment of women, she'd likely smack the shit out of you with her rhetoric lol. Try again. (I say the above with confidence because not only have I seen her give a talk on two occasions, a dear friend of mine is a Fulbright scholar in Turkey who both focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and government and has worked directly with El Saafadi previously. She found the above reference.....interesting, to say the least  )
I can cite someone else's work and not have to agree with the rest of their perspective. I only cited that book, because it gives a clear image of what women go through in Egypt. Do I agree with all of her political, religious, and cultural opinions? No, I do not, and I never said it.
And let me say this. There is a REASON she is involved in the western world and chooses to reside in the western world. Because it is not as bad as it is over there.
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On March 17 2016 08:39 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women? You're really going to get nitpicky about the type of weapon used to implement violence? Women get shot in the united states for telling men they aren't interested. So don't pretend that shit doesn't happen here.
Except that's illegal and rare and not culturally acceptable here. Big difference.
American women are indeed oppressed and objectified, and that needs to be fixed, but it's not really helpful to embellish and say it's as bad here as it is in some of the Muslim extremist countries.
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On March 17 2016 08:39 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women? You're really going to get nitpicky about the type of weapon used to implement violence? Women get shot in the united states for telling men they aren't interested. So don't pretend that shit doesn't happen here.
The government is shooting women because they are not interested in them? Every society has shitty people who commit terrible crimes. It becomes a much larger problem when it becomes a societal and cultural norm that is backed by the government. Women are jailed, prosecuted and sentenced to death just because they were raped. You cannot say that it happens in the U.S. You are just plain wrong.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
tying stuff to capitalism is no good. it's more feudal (social hierarchy driven) than anything
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This patriarchy shit being flung is a progressives wet dream.
It's not remotely the same proportions that you people are arguing. It's not even close.
Women have true freedom here. Those that say they don't are either in an abusive setting (which we have many avenues for them to seek help in. And any normal citizen would gladly try to help). Women do not have true freedom elsewhere in the world.
American women are not oppressed here. They are allowed to get any job they wish, and to be educated as they wish, and to be judged on their merit. Are many job professions dominated by men? Yes, because despite what gender studies or womens studies told you in university, there are still universal truths to our sexes forced upon each sex by evolution.
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A few things on this.
No, there is no equivalence between islam and christianity today. Christianity is on its way out, more and more people are non-practicing which is pretty much text code for non-religious, while islam is not. The context of those two religions is different, which is why you don't see atrocities associated to them at the same rate.
It doesn't mean that islam is worse. This argument defies logic in every sense, as it presents a context issue as a content issue. Islam isn't the worse religion because of today any more than it is the best religion because of the golden age of islam during the middle ages. It is also a logic that you apply only to islam, and not to others, which is a dishonest position: before 9/11, the group that was responsible for the most suicide bombings in the world were the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka - also known as the group that demonstrates that Sam Harris is full of shit from the very first page of his very first book - who were a secular nationalist group. Given this, would you have said at that time that secularism was clearly a terrible thing, as the people who caused the most suicide attacks were secular? No, you didn't say that. Your argument is partial.
If you are concerned about islam and your answer is to ban muslims, you're doing it wrong. What you should be trying to do is appeal to the moderates; the more people are on your side, the less are in the opposition, and the more people are moderate, the less religion plays a role in life. What you're doing instead is Sorry, you're probably totally fine but I can't take that risk, you're one of them. It reinforces the perception that these people are on ISIS side, as opposed to yours. You are framing a war against extremism as a war against a religion. It helps extremism, and even the extremists have figured that out, so why can't you?
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On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women?
We do it with weed :D
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On March 17 2016 08:56 Nebuchad wrote:
A few things on this.
No, there is no equivalence between islam and christianity today. Christianity is on its way out, more and more people are non-practicing which is pretty much text code for non-religious, while islam is not. The context of those two religions is different, which is why you don't see atrocities associated to them at the same rate.
It doesn't mean that islam is worse. This argument defies logic in every sense, as it presents a context issue as a content issue. Islam isn't the worse religion because of today any more than it is the best religion because of the golden age of islam during the middle ages. It is also a logic that you apply only to islam, and not to others, which is a dishonest position: before 9/11, the group that was responsible for the most suicide bombings in the world were the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka - also known as the group that demonstrates that Sam Harris is full of shit from the very first page of his very first book - who were a secular nationalist group. Given this, would you have said at that time that secularism was clearly a terrible thing, as the people who caused the most suicide attacks were secular? No, you didn't say that. Your argument is partial.
If you are concerned about islam and your answer is to ban muslims, you're doing it wrong. What you should be trying to do is appeal to the moderates; the more people are on your side, the less are in the opposition, and the more people are moderate, the less religion plays a role in life. What you're doing instead is Sorry, you're probably totally fine but I can't take that risk, you're one of them. It reinforces the perception that these people are on ISIS side, as opposed to yours. You are framing a war against extremism as a war against a religion. It helps extremism, and even the extremists have figured that out, so why can't you? ^Great post
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On March 17 2016 08:56 Nebuchad wrote:
No, there is no equivalence between islam and christianity today. Christianity is on its way out, more and more people are non-practicing which is pretty much text code for non-religious, while islam is not. The context of those two religions is different, which is why you don't see atrocities associated to them at the same rate.
I'd agree with this if they assimilated better. Many do not. You are still a Kafir and they are using Taqiyya. When you grow up learning the Quran from 0-18, often times you hold some pretty strong views that aren't easily altered. The 9-11 hi-jackers went to strip clubs and ate pork and then Allahu Akbared into the side of a building.
It doesn't mean that islam is worse. This argument defies logic in every sense, as it presents a context issue as a content issue. Islam isn't the worse religion because of today any more than it is the best religion because of the golden age of islam during the middle ages. It is also a logic that you apply only to islam, and not to others, which is a dishonest position: before 9/11, the group that was responsible for the most suicide bombings in the world were the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka - also known as the group that demonstrates that Sam Harris is full of shit from the very first page of his very first book - who were a secular nationalist group. Given this, would you have said at that time that secularism was clearly a terrible thing, as the people who caused the most suicide attacks were secular? No, you didn't say that. Your argument is partial.
Secularism does not have a written or spoken code for Jihad. Nor is it a proselytizing religion based upon conquest. Multiple forms of conquest. Outright war, terrorism, out-breeding, and so on.
If you are concerned about islam and your answer is to ban muslims, you're doing it wrong. What you should be trying to do is appeal to the moderates; the more people are on your side, the less are in the opposition, and the more people are moderate, the less religion plays a role in life. What you're doing instead is Sorry, you're probably totally fine but I can't take that risk, you're one of them. It reinforces the perception that these people are on ISIS side, as opposed to yours. You are framing a war against extremism as a war against a religion. It helps extremism, and even the extremists have figured that out, so why can't you?
Well, it's hard to change moderate views when discussions are silenced. When threats of violence arise. When everyone would just "rather not talk about it" and hope they just assimilate into our culture through the internet, television, and glorious memes. Remember, we're living in a free speech zone but often told, "woah woah. Don't criticize Islam". I agree with this slow method of conversion. Not to have a "moderate Islam" but so that it sees the same decline as Christianity. On it's way out.
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On March 17 2016 08:56 Nebuchad wrote:
A few things on this.
No, there is no equivalence between islam and christianity today. Christianity is on its way out, more and more people are non-practicing which is pretty much text code for non-religious, while islam is not. The context of those two religions is different, which is why you don't see atrocities associated to them at the same rate.
It doesn't mean that islam is worse. This argument defies logic in every sense, as it presents a context issue as a content issue. Islam isn't the worse religion because of today any more than it is the best religion because of the golden age of islam during the middle ages. It is also a logic that you apply only to islam, and not to others, which is a dishonest position: before 9/11, the group that was responsible for the most suicide bombings in the world were the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka - also known as the group that demonstrates that Sam Harris is full of shit from the very first page of his very first book - who were a secular nationalist group. Given this, would you have said at that time that secularism was clearly a terrible thing, as the people who caused the most suicide attacks were secular? No, you didn't say that. Your argument is partial.
If you are concerned about islam and your answer is to ban muslims, you're doing it wrong. What you should be trying to do is appeal to the moderates; the more people are on your side, the less are in the opposition, and the more people are moderate, the less religion plays a role in life. What you're doing instead is Sorry, you're probably totally fine but I can't take that risk, you're one of them. It reinforces the perception that these people are on ISIS side, as opposed to yours. You are framing a war against extremism as a war against a religion. It helps extremism, and even the extremists have figured that out, so why can't you?
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the War for souls?
In 1980, more Christians were found in the global South than the North for the first time in 1,000 years. Today, the Christian community in Latin America and Africa, alone, account for 1 billion people.
Over the past 100 years, Christians grew from less than 10 percent of Africa’s population to its nearly 500 million today. One out of four Christians in the world presently is an Africa, and the Pew Research Center estimates that will grow to 40 percent by 2030.
Source
Christianity isn't "on it's way out" unless you just mean "out" of the US and Europe?
Looks like Donald runs the GOP and now FNC too
Fox News has canceled its March 21 Republican presidential debate following Donald Trump's decision not to attend, three sources told CNNMoney on Wednesday.
Source
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It's obvious he means US and Europe.
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On March 17 2016 08:36 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:32 SK.Testie wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. "Equally" Try that again. Women have the sincere and honest option of getting paid for their bodies here without retribution and protection of the law if something goes wrong. Yes, many prostitutes in Canada choose to be prostitutes of their own volition because the money is so good. The patriarchy goes out of its way in USA and Canada for women. They meet a lot of disrespect, but guess what, everyone meets a lot of disrespect. Rapes are far more common there, but they are a problem anywhere men are. Yes. Domestic abuse? Again, far more common over there. Let's try not to compare Acid attacks and complete dominion over women to a place where good looking women can literally go on Tinder and get a free meal any time they want. (I know a girl who uses it that way and she's suckered over a hundred guys out of free meals). The violence is different, and the expectations of women are different--but the amount of patriarchy is about the same.
When one starts suggesting women are equally oppressed in, say, Austria and Afghanistan, one quickly makes all one's opponents lose interest in women's rights because if the huge strides civilization has taken in the last 100 years haven't done anything, it would obviously be a futile enterprise.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
To be fair a debate with just Cruz and Kasich
kinda boring.
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On March 17 2016 08:54 SK.Testie wrote:
This patriarchy shit being flung is a progressives wet dream.
It's not remotely the same proportions that you people are arguing. It's not even close.
Women have true freedom here. Those that say they don't are either in an abusive setting (which we have many avenues for them to seek help in. And any normal citizen would gladly try to help). Women do not have true freedom elsewhere in the world.
American women are not oppressed here. They are allowed to get any job they wish, and to be educated as they wish, and to be judged on their merit. Are many job professions dominated by men? Yes, because despite what gender studies or womens studies told you in university, there are still universal truths to our sexes forced upon each sex by evolution.
Your casually sexist opinion isn't backed by the data, and it's the quintessential "check your privilege" comment.
Just because women have it better in America than in some other parts of the world doesn't mean American women are treated equally/ fairly to men. To ignore the statistics compiled by independent research and the conversations that occur in gender/ sex studies classes simply because of evolution is intellectually dishonest. Social anthropology is just as important as evolutionary anthropology (if not more so) in this day and age.
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On March 17 2016 09:10 Kipsate wrote:
To be fair a debate with just Cruz and Kasich
kinda boring.
Agreed. I'm sure it'll still be all about Trump though :/
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On March 17 2016 08:57 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote:On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote:On March 17 2016 07:55 SolaR- wrote:On March 17 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
Man, every country with majority Muslim population must be a violent hell hole if that is true??? So why isn’t that the case? Oh yeah……. That's because when female genital mutilation is legal and a cultural norm, you don't have these acts as documented crime. Also, rape is also basically legal, and it is inherent in their culture and religion. Leave it to the liberal to not see anything passed statistics. I suggest you take a look at this book and other writings by Nawal El Saadawi to get an idea how inherently fucked up this culture is and it's treatment of women. http://www.amazon.com/Nawal-El-Saadawi-Reader/dp/1856495140/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1458168759&sr=8-9&keywords=Nawal El Saadawi You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, "The feminists who are aware of the effects of patriarchy realize that we are all in the same boat from the dangers of patriarchy, and that the oppression of women is universal," ...right? Here's another lol: "Women in most countries have not achieved much, because they can't be liberated under the patriarchal, capitalist, imperialist and military system that determines the way we live now, and which is governed by power, not justice, by false democracy, not real freedom." Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women? We do it with weed :D
Touche
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On March 17 2016 09:03 SK.Testie wrote:
I'd agree with this if they assimilated better. Many do not. You are still a Kafir and they are using Taqiyya. When you grow up learning the Quran from 0-18, often times you hold some pretty strong views that aren't easily altered. The 9-11 hi-jackers went to strip clubs and ate pork and then Allahu Akbared into the side of a building.
Is there a point to this string of sentences? I don't really know what you're answering and I'm not sure what you want me to say about any of that.
Secularism does not have a written or spoken code for Jihad. Nor is it a proselytizing religion based upon conquest. Multiple forms of conquest. Outright war, terrorism, out-breeding, and so on.
You are now discussing content, which is different. If your argument is based on content, then my answer is that islam isn't worse; the texts are bad all around, and islam is just as latently capable of producing bad results as the other ideologies are. If your argument is based on context (the situation today, which was being discussed in the thread), then my argument stands.
Well, it's hard to change moderate views when discussions are silenced. When threats of violence arise.
It's also hard not to silence discussions when you ban people from your country. But that's what you're pulling for. So by your own account, you're part of the problem.
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EPT
