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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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SolaR-
United States2686 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote: You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, ...right? Here's another lol: So every girl when she is 5-8 years old is having her cliterous brutally removed in the United States? Do I have to define worse for you? Did I say women are not oppressed in the U.S? Do you know what worse means? | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
It's not like Trump (by far the most extreme) wants to declare war on Islam or ban immigration forever, he just wants to do so until we deal with ISIS. Or "until we figure out what's going on" whatever the hell that means lmao He's certainly never whispered of the mosque registration again and he didn't care until Paris/San Bernardino | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24419 Posts
I know Hillary supporters have to try to suffocate Bernie's campaign before he goes on his winning streak, but if you all want folks to come to Hillary's camp I would advise that you generally stop blaming Bernie's success on stupid college kids and unrealistic, extreme folks. On March 17 2016 08:08 TheTenthDoc wrote: Why this politics thread has started devolving into a discussion of the demerits of Islam over and over when none of the political candidates have said anything that suggests they have any concern with Muslims or Islam beyond potential security risks is beyond me. It's not like Trump (by far the most extreme) wants to declare war on Islam or ban immigration forever, he just wants to do so until we deal with ISIS. Or "until we figure out what's going on" whatever the hell that means lmao This has got nothing on what a general election with Trump v Hillary would be. It would have folks like plansix attacking sexual assault victims and people like Zenith defending them. "Progressives" defending superPAC's, O&G, and Wall Street, while "conservatives" defend divorce, sexual liberation of women, and not getting into the Iraq war. If people are supporting either of those noted liars and flip-floppers, and their heads don't explode from cognitive dissonance in a theoretical general, I'll be impressed. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
anyway, taiwan numba wan moment | ||
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
Author Affiliations 1Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, MetroHealth Medical Center, Cleveland, Ohio, USA 2Department of Bioethics, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, USA 3Director of Gynecologic Oncology at Coney Island Hospital, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology and Associate Faculty in Bioethics, Stony Brook University, Stony Brook, New York, USA | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On March 17 2016 07:32 oneofthem wrote: you are really ignoring the core of the issue, which is that the trump thing is not distinguishing between these different issues and instead complicates the problem tremendously in the PR front. It may be extremely stupid of people to not handle it in a nuanced way, a la Obama & Clinton, but people no longer care about the PR issue. Nobody wants to even see a minor increase in the Muslim population. No one ever wants to hear a single "Allahu Akbar" mentioned. Islam continually clashes with the host countries culture that it stays in. Always. There's not a single country that does not have culture clash, unless it completely capitulates. But I am just a lowly Kafir on whom they can use Taqiyya. So what are the harms of Trumps PR campaign? Will he alienate allies? Is he going to radicalize moderates? Because moderates are already heavily in favour of giving to Islamic organizations. Known as terrorist organizations. CAIR in America has some disturbing ties and it's just allowed to do what it wants. Here's a poll from Al-Jazeera. http://www.aljazeera.net/votes/pages?voteid=5270 نتيجة التصويت: مدة التصويت: من 22/5/2015 إلى 28/5/2015 نعم 46060 / 81% لا 10821 / 19% Translation: Have you considered offering the organization of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria for the benefit of the region? Outcome of the vote : Voting period : From 22/05/2015 to 28/05/2015 Yeah 46060/81 % No 10821/19 % We already know that women are cattle in many of these places. Soldiers talk about the differences between Afghanistan (where child rape is way more common) and Iraq. Pakistan has an insane rate of child rape. The Muslim population is over-represented in Western prisons as well, especially for sex crimes by a very significant margin. Now, this may change significantly on a country by country basis. But considering the UK had Rotherham and 10 other Pakistani sex gangs, disturbing patterns are a little too evident. There's no PR campaign anymore. The west is coming to a head where it's just going to have to admit, "Look, Islam. We know you have a lot of hate for us. But, it's pretty clear we are not exactly fond of you either". I dislike Christian fundamentalists, and especially this group of Christians but every so often they take a walk through the park with some crosses. There's plenty more videos of this sort where you are walking through a western democracy and you realize that there's a portion of your country not assimilating and thinking that you, the countries host, are the dogs who need to change their ways. If it were a tinier minority, percentage wise, it wouldn't be a problem. But walking through a single street and having this much hostility? + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMZe5hXodQg | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:01 farvacola wrote: You do realize that one of her most famous quotes is, ...right? Here's another lol: Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. | ||
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SolaR-
United States2686 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote: Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote: Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. "Equally" Try that again. Women have the sincere and honest option of getting paid for their bodies here without retribution and protection of the law if something goes wrong. Yes, many prostitutes in Canada choose to be prostitutes of their own volition because the money is so good. The patriarchy goes out of its way in USA and Canada for women. They meet a lot of disrespect, but guess what, everyone meets a lot of disrespect. Rapes are far more common there, but they are a problem anywhere men are. Yes. Domestic abuse? Again, far more common over there. Let's try not to compare Acid attacks and complete dominion over women to a place where good looking women can literally go on Tinder and get a free meal any time they want. (I know a girl who uses it that way and she's suckered over a hundred guys out of free meals). | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46582 Posts
Mitch McConnell Accuses President Obama of Politicizing Supreme Court Nomination Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell took no time to reject President Barack Obama's nomination for the Supreme Court, declaring his refusal to even consider Merrick Garland in the hearing process. "It seems clear that President Obama made this nomination not with the intent of seeing the nominee confirmed, but in order to politicize for purposes of the election," McConnell said. The senator's response is no surprise. Since Justice Antonin Scalia's unexpected death in February, Senate Republicans have vowed to block any nominee the president puts forward to replace the late justice. "The Senate will appropriately revisit the matter when it considers the qualification of the nominee the next president nominates, whoever that might be," McConnell said on Wednesday shortly after the president's announcement of his nominee, the chief judge of the influential DC Circuit. ~ http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/03/mitch-mcconnell-accuses-supreme-court-merrick-garland Ugh. What a jackass. | ||
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oBlade
United States6628 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:27 Naracs_Duc wrote: Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. Both sides are equally suppressed by the patriarchy, but the types of attacks are merely different between both. One is more related to public violence (stoning, mutilation, acid burning, etc...) while the other is related to private violence (rapes, domestic abuse, prostitution) while both sides also had non-violent suppression (Enforced dress codes, limited business viability, silenced outraged, etc...) Although some acts of violence is seen as worse by westerners (like mutilation) it doesn't mean that western women are less attacked by the Patriarchy. Would you say disease is equally harmful in the first and third worlds, it just expresses itself differently (for example, more people in the first world living to the age where cancer attacks their bodies, versus more people in the third world dying of diarrhea)? | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:04 SolaR- wrote: OH I'm sorry that I forgot that we live in a black and white world. There is no such things as different degrees, only bad or good. If you seriously think women are treated as badly in the United States or the western world, you are completely clueless. Obviously women have issues here, but can you really argue that it is ANYWHERE near the same level? I don't even know what to say... You tried to reference an incredibly smart and incredibly liberal Egyptian woman in support of the notion that Islam, in the general sense, deserves special scrutiny relative to the plight of women. It is very obvious that you have likely only read a tiny, tiny portion of her work, namely the portion that might seem to inform the viewpoint that Islam is especially bad. Unfortunately for you, El Saafadi's work mostly revolves around establishing that religion, in the general sense, oppresses women as a matter of function and its relationship with capitalism, not that Islam is especially bad relative to Christianity. So yeah, if you would ask her to back you while you argue that the West is superior to the Arab world in its treatment of women, she'd likely smack the shit out of you with her rhetoric lol. Try again. (I say the above with confidence because not only have I seen her give a talk on two occasions, a dear friend of mine is a Fulbright scholar in Turkey who both focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and government and has worked directly with El Saafadi previously. She found the above reference.....interesting, to say the least  ) | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:32 SolaR- wrote: Yeah in the west we stone rape victims to death because they dishonored men and Allah In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
your description of the american muslim community is not matched by intelligence reports or by public polling produced over the years. it's also against the demographics statistics of muslims showing high proportion of advanced education. | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:32 SK.Testie wrote: "Equally" Try that again. Women have the sincere and honest option of getting paid for their bodies here without retribution and protection of the law if something goes wrong. Yes, many prostitutes in Canada choose to be prostitutes of their own volition because the money is so good. The patriarchy goes out of its way in USA and Canada for women. They meet a lot of disrespect, but guess what, everyone meets a lot of disrespect. Rapes are far more common there, but they are a problem anywhere men are. Yes. Domestic abuse? Again, far more common over there. Let's try not to compare Acid attacks and complete dominion over women to a place where good looking women can literally go on Tinder and get a free meal any time they want. (I know a girl who uses it that way and she's suckered over a hundred guys out of free meals). The violence is different, and the expectations of women are different--but the amount of patriarchy is about the same. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:24 SK.Testie wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2016 07:32 oneofthem wrote: you are really ignoring the core of the issue, which is that the trump thing is not distinguishing between these different issues and instead complicates the problem tremendously in the PR front. It may be extremely stupid of people to not handle it in a nuanced way, a la Obama & Clinton, but people no longer care about the PR issue. Nobody wants to even see a minor increase in the Muslim population. No one ever wants to hear a single "Allahu Akbar" mentioned. Islam continually clashes with the host countries culture that it stays in. Always. There's not a single country that does not have culture clash, unless it completely capitulates. But I am just a lowly Kafir on whom they can use Taqiyya. So what are the harms of Trumps PR campaign? Will he alienate allies? Is he going to radicalize moderates? Because moderates are already heavily in favour of giving to Islamic organizations. Known as terrorist organizations. CAIR in America has some disturbing ties and it's just allowed to do what it wants. Here's a poll from Al-Jazeera. http://www.aljazeera.net/votes/pages?voteid=5270 نتيجة التصويت: مدة التصويت: من 22/5/2015 إلى 28/5/2015 نعم 46060 / 81% لا 10821 / 19% Translation: Have you considered offering the organization of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria for the benefit of the region? Outcome of the vote : Voting period : From 22/05/2015 to 28/05/2015 Yeah 46060/81 % No 10821/19 % We already know that women are cattle in many of these places. Soldiers talk about the differences between Afghanistan (where child rape is way more common) and Iraq. Pakistan has an insane rate of child rape. The Muslim population is over-represented in Western prisons as well, especially for sex crimes by a very significant margin. Now, this may change significantly on a country by country basis. But considering the UK had Rotherham and 10 other Pakistani sex gangs, disturbing patterns are a little too evident. There's no PR campaign anymore. The west is coming to a head where it's just going to have to admit, "Look, Islam. We know you have a lot of hate for us. But, it's pretty clear we are not exactly fond of you either". I dislike Christian fundamentalists, and especially this group of Christians but every so often they take a walk through the park with some crosses. There's plenty more videos of this sort where you are walking through a western democracy and you realize that there's a portion of your country not assimilating and thinking that you, the countries host, are the dogs who need to change their ways. If it were a tinier minority, percentage wise, it wouldn't be a problem. But walking through a single street and having this much hostility? + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMZe5hXodQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6XcyXsxXU Testie, where on earth are you getting that Trump thinks any of this or would make policies dealing with any of this? The polls Trump himself cites show this is NOT a problem in America to nearly the degree you are presenting it as. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46582 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:34 Naracs_Duc wrote: In the middle east they do it because god said so, in the west they do it because they feel entitled to. Which one being worse seems to be a matter of what color skin you are. They do? Where in the west do men stone women? | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:34 oBlade wrote: Would you say disease is equally harmful in the first and third worlds, it just expresses itself differently (for example, more people in the first world living to the age where cancer attacks their bodies, versus more people in the third world dying of diarrhea)? I would say disease is much more complicated than that. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: They do? Where in the west do men stone women? In glass houses. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46582 Posts
On March 17 2016 08:35 oneofthem wrote: you are really citing an online poll, seriously? It's Testie :/ I bet he cited that poll because they're in the pocket of Big Kale. | ||
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