EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3358
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On March 16 2016 23:15 Kipsate wrote: Sounds like political suicide of the Republican party would be interesting though I guess. Nominating Trump is also political suicide for the GOP leadership though. Even moreso if he manages to win. No matter what they lose (well, bar a 3rd party Trump run so they can blame him for Hillary winning, but that's a harder narrative the more delegates he has and the higher primary vote share he gets). | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:25 ticklishmusic wrote: I was just thinking: when Hillary announced, she took the cream of the crop of democratic strategists, operatives and thinkers. When Bernie announced, all he had was guys like Jeff Weaver in his corner, and all he could get was the rejects like Tad Devine. Yeah there's some untapped talent out there, but it's unlikely you're gonna find enough to be more than a roadbump for the Clinton-Obama machine, which is really the best of the old-fashioned and new-age stuff. From that angle (emphasis on this), Bernie's campaign never stood a chance. There have certainly been numerous instances where Bernie's campaign plain and simply made mistakes and were not on Clinton's level. I don't know the depth that you seem to, with this and that strategists, but it makes sense. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:36 oneofthem wrote: bernie's campaign's problem is bernie I'll always wonder what could have been. What if he didn't describe himself as a socialist? What if he didn't bring up issues he didn't need to? Certainly would have been interesting to see Bernie play to win. Then again, maybe he wouldn't have gone anywhere in that case. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:28 TheTenthDoc wrote: Nominating Trump is also political suicide for the GOP leadership though. Even moreso if he manages to win. No matter what they lose (well, bar a 3rd party Trump run so they can blame him for Hillary winning, but that's a harder narrative the more delegates he has and the higher primary vote share he gets). The party can live to fight another day if it nominates Trump or Cruz. It won't if it brings someone else in. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:41 farvacola wrote: A Bernie who plays politics before pushing ideas is not Bernie anymore this makes him unserious about it all, unless you treat politics as just a protest rally for expression and all that. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:38 Mohdoo wrote: I'll always wonder what could have been. What if he didn't describe himself as a socialist? What if he didn't bring up issues he didn't need to? Certainly would have been interesting to see Bernie play to win. Then again, maybe he wouldn't have gone anywhere in that case. I don't know that it would have mattered. Obama is fairly popular with democrats and many independents, so Clinton's platform of "Obama, but better" is sufficient for them. Combined with the connections she's forged over decades and he was always at a disadvantage. Trump probably did more to harm Sanders by diverting the bulk of media to the Republican race than anything else. Regardless, Sanders is going to stay in the race because the delegates he's winning have meaning beyond deciding who the nominee is. He's not just pulling Clinton left, his delegates at the convention will pull the party left when it comes time to vote on issues for the party platform. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
his use of the label is a distinct political act and you really need to make the case for that move without reference to the underlying policies. FDR did do a lot of socialist things without enthusiastically calling himself as such. as far as pulling the party to the left, it's not always about being the leftest guy out there = best. left has some spectacularly damaging and dumb ideas. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
How anyone considers a system healthy, in which the choices are far-right vs. center-right, and policies are far to the right of public opinion, is beyond me. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:41 farvacola wrote: A Bernie who plays politics before pushing ideas is not Bernie anymore There's more than a bit of truth here. Remember the Florida debate where they played that damning Castro endorsement quote? There are three four decades worth of material like that available. If he weren't an unabashed socialist, he'd get owned by his record. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:58 Seuss wrote: Yeah, the extreme edges on both sides are mythical fairy lands, but at this point there's plenty of room for democrats to shift left without venturing into Narnia. how will a guy like sanders properly distinguish between actually worthwhile issues to push and fairy stuff? when you lead the young and enthusiastic that degree of control and opportunity cost places a heavy burden of responsibility with the power. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12596 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:58 Seuss wrote: Yeah, the extreme edges on both sides are mythical fairy lands, but at this point there's plenty of room for democrats to shift left without venturing into Narnia. There's place on the left for another party. Makes no sense to say you're either a leftist or a republican, you need a place for the sane people on the right too. That way we wouldn't have to pretend that we're all on the same side as well. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 17 2016 00:57 Ghanburighan wrote: There's more than a bit of truth here. Remember the Florida debate where they played that damning Castro endorsement quote? There are three four decades worth of material like that available. If he weren't an unabashed socialist, he'd get owned by his record. I suppose that's a fair point. By every possible indication, he is totally a socialist. Saying he's just really progressive would have gotten him bodyslammed. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
I'd feel a bit bad for him, but it would be great entertainment. | ||
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