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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 25 2015 03:48 Plansix wrote:
As reported by racist, reactionary, right wing rag, Breitbart "News". Bringing back yellow journalism one hit piece at a time. They don't attack ideas, they attack the people with those ideas because its easier. Someone should ask them about their forced settlement with Shirley Sherrod.
Plansix the racism is strong within you. Breitbart is far from racist, that's just your demented liberal mind playing tricks on you as usual. 
Plansix logic: anything conservative/republican = racist. That's the extent of your logic.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
you can't be seriously disputing the bad treatment of migrants in the u.s.
not necessarily by the government but when your agricultural industry uses extremely ill treated migrant labor it's just bad.
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On September 25 2015 02:15 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 00:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Republican leaders think they have a plan to avert a government shutdown. They now just have to hope that the hardliners pushing for one won't find a way to thwart it -- and there are many ways they could make things go wrong.
With a week to go before the deadline to pass a spending bill expires, GOP leaders in the House and Senate must guide a short-term funding bill through a delicate legislative process. Their plan depends on outmaneuvering the group of 30 or so conservative lawmakers vowing to block any funding legislation that includes money for Planned Parenthood. They must also sidestep Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) who is openly threatening to make trouble in the Senate.
In the end, even the best-laid plans would only get a stop-gap bill through Congress. A long-term deal would still need to be worked out, and deep divisions remain unbridged. But it would buy time, avoid a needless government shutdown, and forestall the political firestorm Republicans would face heading into the 2016 elections.
Both Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) have made clear they believe that a shutdown over Planned Parenthood -- accused by anti-abortion activists of harvesting fetal tissue for profit -- is a political loser for their party. But their attempts to let conservatives express their anger through alternative anti-abortion bills have done little to diffuse the shutdown talk, leaving Boehner in particular dependent on Democratic votes to pass legislation to keep the government open.
“McConnell and Boehner truly see nothing to be gained by any kind of a shutdown at all,” Bill Hoagland, senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center who worked for the U.S. Senate for 25 years, told TPM. “[McConnell] is very careful and methodical, and if Boehner didn’t have to deal with those 34 or 35 wayward souls in the House, there would be no question on his part.”
The current plan goes like this:
Thursday, after the Pope’s address, the Senate will vote on a short-term spending bill that defunds Planned Parenthood. That bill is expected to be filibustered by Democrats, and thus "prove" to conservative hardliners that blocking Planned Parenthood’s funding is, on a practical level, impossible. At least that's the theory. Then, McConnell will bring forward a “clean” continuing resolution, which would keep the government open for a few months -- likely through Dec. 11 -- with spending being maintained at essentially its current levels, including the funding for Planned Parenthood. That measure could be passed late this week, or early in the next week, giving the House a few days at most to pass the same legislation itself.
“If we are gong to avoid a shutdown, if we are going to get some sort of short term deal by the end of next week, this is the way it’s probably going to happen,” Molly Reynolds, a fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution, told TPM. “But there’s plenty of places along the way that the plan could go off the rails.”
At every turn, there is chance for hardliners to stall the process. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), for instance could delay the vote on the clean continuing resolution a day or two by objecting to a motion to take it up immediately, as he did in December. Cruz and two of the other GOP presidential candidates in the Senate have argued, against historical evidence, that Democrats would be blamed for a government shutdown. Source Worth reading for context is this Politico op-ed from Cruz. It's pretty clear Republican leadership is facing a possible revolt from within its own ranks, particularly the South, although it should already be obvious that Trump is tapping a large swath of Republicans that are really pissed off with the party. But this is a strange and scary place to take a firm stand, as in it's not a strong political place to make a rallying cry to get supporters fired up or attract new groups. I think discussing the blame is also not too helpful. Everyone looks bad for a government shutdown and it's worth pointing out that there seem to be plenty of Democrats who are really pissed off with their party establishment too. A bona fide shutdown is only worse for Republicans in the sense that it throws a tough spotlight on Rubio and Cruz, who are the most viable establishment candidates. They haven't shown the chops to play political judo and turn this on candidates like Trump and Carson as to how they might deal with an unruly Congress (i.e. they can't) or even better, turn this into a uniting cause against Democrats and Obama.
The revolt has been going on for some time now. Remember it was Cruz who campaigned for the last shutdown and when party leadership followed they were pretty pissed that he (Cruz) had utterly no plan what to do after the shutdown when Democrats didn't cave.
The Tea Party and GOP leadership have clashed numerous times since then in the open so we can only guess how much yelling has been happening behind closed doors.
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On September 25 2015 04:02 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 02:15 coverpunch wrote:On September 25 2015 00:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Republican leaders think they have a plan to avert a government shutdown. They now just have to hope that the hardliners pushing for one won't find a way to thwart it -- and there are many ways they could make things go wrong.
With a week to go before the deadline to pass a spending bill expires, GOP leaders in the House and Senate must guide a short-term funding bill through a delicate legislative process. Their plan depends on outmaneuvering the group of 30 or so conservative lawmakers vowing to block any funding legislation that includes money for Planned Parenthood. They must also sidestep Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) who is openly threatening to make trouble in the Senate.
In the end, even the best-laid plans would only get a stop-gap bill through Congress. A long-term deal would still need to be worked out, and deep divisions remain unbridged. But it would buy time, avoid a needless government shutdown, and forestall the political firestorm Republicans would face heading into the 2016 elections.
Both Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) have made clear they believe that a shutdown over Planned Parenthood -- accused by anti-abortion activists of harvesting fetal tissue for profit -- is a political loser for their party. But their attempts to let conservatives express their anger through alternative anti-abortion bills have done little to diffuse the shutdown talk, leaving Boehner in particular dependent on Democratic votes to pass legislation to keep the government open.
“McConnell and Boehner truly see nothing to be gained by any kind of a shutdown at all,” Bill Hoagland, senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center who worked for the U.S. Senate for 25 years, told TPM. “[McConnell] is very careful and methodical, and if Boehner didn’t have to deal with those 34 or 35 wayward souls in the House, there would be no question on his part.”
The current plan goes like this:
Thursday, after the Pope’s address, the Senate will vote on a short-term spending bill that defunds Planned Parenthood. That bill is expected to be filibustered by Democrats, and thus "prove" to conservative hardliners that blocking Planned Parenthood’s funding is, on a practical level, impossible. At least that's the theory. Then, McConnell will bring forward a “clean” continuing resolution, which would keep the government open for a few months -- likely through Dec. 11 -- with spending being maintained at essentially its current levels, including the funding for Planned Parenthood. That measure could be passed late this week, or early in the next week, giving the House a few days at most to pass the same legislation itself.
“If we are gong to avoid a shutdown, if we are going to get some sort of short term deal by the end of next week, this is the way it’s probably going to happen,” Molly Reynolds, a fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution, told TPM. “But there’s plenty of places along the way that the plan could go off the rails.”
At every turn, there is chance for hardliners to stall the process. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), for instance could delay the vote on the clean continuing resolution a day or two by objecting to a motion to take it up immediately, as he did in December. Cruz and two of the other GOP presidential candidates in the Senate have argued, against historical evidence, that Democrats would be blamed for a government shutdown. Source Worth reading for context is this Politico op-ed from Cruz. It's pretty clear Republican leadership is facing a possible revolt from within its own ranks, particularly the South, although it should already be obvious that Trump is tapping a large swath of Republicans that are really pissed off with the party. But this is a strange and scary place to take a firm stand, as in it's not a strong political place to make a rallying cry to get supporters fired up or attract new groups. I think discussing the blame is also not too helpful. Everyone looks bad for a government shutdown and it's worth pointing out that there seem to be plenty of Democrats who are really pissed off with their party establishment too. A bona fide shutdown is only worse for Republicans in the sense that it throws a tough spotlight on Rubio and Cruz, who are the most viable establishment candidates. They haven't shown the chops to play political judo and turn this on candidates like Trump and Carson as to how they might deal with an unruly Congress (i.e. they can't) or even better, turn this into a uniting cause against Democrats and Obama. The revolt has been going on for some time now. Remember it was Cruz who campaigned for the last shutdown and when party leadership followed they were pretty pissed that he (Cruz) had utterly no plan what to do after the shutdown when Democrats didn't cave. The Tea Party and GOP leadership have clashed numerous times since then in the open so we can only guess how much yelling has been happening behind closed doors.
And there is a 100% chance Cruz and the Tea Party boyz have zero plan this time too. They don’t seem to understand that shutting down the government doesn’t hurt the Democrats in any way. Especially for programs that the majority of Americans want to continue. I love the fact that the current bill being floated by the house is designed to teach the Tea Party hardliners that they can’t defund PP. Like counting was to hard for them, so they need it proven to them live.
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LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) — Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis has lost her latest effort to stall issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, one of a fast-growing collection of rejected appeals.
Davis, fresh out of jail for defying a federal judge, again asked the judge to postpone his mandate that she license all couples.
Davis, elected as a Democrat in rural Rowan County, sparked a fiery debate about religious freedom and the rule of law when she refused to issue any licenses after a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court in June effectively legalized gay marriage nationwide.
The American Civil Liberties Union filed a suit against Davis on behalf of four couples, two straight and two gay. U.S. District Court Judge David Bunning ordered her to issue the licenses, not only to those four couples but also to any other qualified to be married.
Davis ignored him, lost a string of appeals then spent five days in jail. Her deputies began issuing altered documents while she was behind bars, including to both gay couples who sued her.
Her attorneys with the Liberty Counsel, a Florida-based firm that opposes gay rights, asked the appeals court to toss Bunning's order that expanded the licensing mandate to all couples, arguing that because the couples who sued her received a license, she should not have to issue any more while the case is pending.
The appeals court denied the request last week on the legal technicality that her lawyers did not first ask the district judge for a delay, as federal court rules require. Davis' legal team redirected the appeal to Bunning, who rejected it Tuesday.
"It would essentially allow her to reinstate her 'no marriage licenses' policy during the pendency of the appeal and likely violate the constitutional right of eligible couples," the judge wrote.
Mat Staver, her attorney, called the request with the district judge "a formality" that had to be completed before asking the appeals court to consider it again.
He said they will soon file the same motion with the Sixth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals.
Source
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On September 25 2015 03:50 Eskendereya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 03:48 Plansix wrote:
As reported by racist, reactionary, right wing rag, Breitbart "News". Bringing back yellow journalism one hit piece at a time. They don't attack ideas, they attack the people with those ideas because its easier. Someone should ask them about their forced settlement with Shirley Sherrod. Plansix the racism is strong within you. Breitbart is far from racist, that's just your demented liberal mind playing tricks on you as usual. Plansix logic: anything conservative/republican = racist. That's the extent of your logic.
I know very little about Breitbart, but the way it reads seems very much like someone saying "I have a black friend, I can't be racist."
Just because these things may be true:
If Trump bails, two Hispanics and a black man pick up almost 50% of the billionaire businessman’s voters.
Moreover, if Trump bails, a woman, two Hispanics, and a black men earn 58% of total GOP support while the white guys wither and die.
does not mean that those few candidates represent the interests of the majority of the black/hispanic/female community.
And:
The mainstream media are nothing more than a bunch of godforsaken, leftwing liars.
just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I feel like things could be far more productive if we all weren't so damn adversarial.
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On September 25 2015 04:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 03:50 Eskendereya wrote:On September 25 2015 03:48 Plansix wrote:
As reported by racist, reactionary, right wing rag, Breitbart "News". Bringing back yellow journalism one hit piece at a time. They don't attack ideas, they attack the people with those ideas because its easier. Someone should ask them about their forced settlement with Shirley Sherrod. Plansix the racism is strong within you. Breitbart is far from racist, that's just your demented liberal mind playing tricks on you as usual. Plansix logic: anything conservative/republican = racist. That's the extent of your logic. I know very little about Breitbart, but the way it reads seems very much like someone saying "I have a black friend, I can't be racist." Just because these things may be true: Show nested quote +If Trump bails, two Hispanics and a black man pick up almost 50% of the billionaire businessman’s voters.
Moreover, if Trump bails, a woman, two Hispanics, and a black men earn 58% of total GOP support while the white guys wither and die. does not mean that those few candidates represent the interests of the majority of the black/hispanic/female community. And: Show nested quote +The mainstream media are nothing more than a bunch of godforsaken, leftwing liars. just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I feel like things could be far more productive if we all weren't so damn adversarial.
If you what a real treat, just look into articles having to do with gay rights on that site. It will blow your mind.
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A California county voted Tuesday to restore primary health care services to undocumented adults living in the county.
Contra Costa County, east of San Francisco, joins 46 other California counties that have agreed to provide non-emergency care to immigrants who entered the country illegally.
"Providing health care coverage to all is not only about the human morality issue that we should address, but also from a cost-effective point of view ... this is absolutely the right thing," said Jane Garcia, CEO of La Clínica de la Raza, which serves 25,000 patients in Contra Costa, many of them low-income Latinos.
Adult immigrants who are undocumented are not able to participate state health exchanges under the Affordable Care Act, but can get emergency care in hospitals.
The program is not full scope insurance, but will provide preventive care. Health care providers and other supporters say that increasing access to preventive services will cut down visits to the emergency room and save the county money in the long run.
"It will mean better health care access for all, improved public health, lower cost to our health care system, and it's just the right thing to do for people, especially undocumented adults who are not covered under the Affordable Care Act," said County Supervisor John Gioia, a supporter of the measure.
The movement to increase health care access to more residents has also made strides at the state level. In June, the California legislature and Gov. Jerry Brown announced a budget deal to provide public healthcare coverage for undocumented children from low-income families as early as May 2016.
A number of California counties were already covering children regardless of immigration status, says Tanya Broder, staff attorney at the National Immigration Law Center. That paved the way for the statewide agreement.
Source
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I wonder if the Pope's speech will lend any momentum to immigration reform.
I'm of the opinion Obama has one big public policy initiatives left in him. Wonder what it'll be.
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On September 25 2015 03:50 Eskendereya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 03:48 Plansix wrote:
As reported by racist, reactionary, right wing rag, Breitbart "News". Bringing back yellow journalism one hit piece at a time. They don't attack ideas, they attack the people with those ideas because its easier. Someone should ask them about their forced settlement with Shirley Sherrod. Plansix the racism is strong within you. Breitbart is far from racist, that's just your demented liberal mind playing tricks on you as usual. Plansix logic: anything conservative/republican = racist. That's the extent of your logic.
"MEDIA RACE-HOAX DEBUNKED: POLLS PROVE TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE NOT RACIST"
"Godforsaken, leftwing liars."
Both the title and the closer pretty much ensure that none of the words in between them remotely resembles reality. If you believe that crap, you're an idiot. Also you might like this facebook group!
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On September 25 2015 03:50 Eskendereya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 03:48 Plansix wrote:
As reported by racist, reactionary, right wing rag, Breitbart "News". Bringing back yellow journalism one hit piece at a time. They don't attack ideas, they attack the people with those ideas because its easier. Someone should ask them about their forced settlement with Shirley Sherrod. Plansix the racism is strong within you. Breitbart is far from racist, that's just your demented liberal mind playing tricks on you as usual. Plansix logic: anything conservative/republican = racist. That's the extent of your logic.
The writers on Breitbart do a (relatively) good job about not being overtly racist or homophobic but you just have to look at the comment section to see the sort of subhuman trash that website caters to.
Saying Breitbart is "far from racist" is intellectually dishonest. It is about as close to racist as a "mainstream" "news" source can be.
Even though it would likely be a death knell for this election, I really wish the Republican party would get its act together and focus on conservative politics, not social issues. The sooner they ditch people like those who visit Breitbart for their news, the sooner they may actually win a national election instead of pandering to extremists.
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On September 25 2015 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 03:50 Eskendereya wrote:On September 25 2015 03:48 Plansix wrote:
As reported by racist, reactionary, right wing rag, Breitbart "News". Bringing back yellow journalism one hit piece at a time. They don't attack ideas, they attack the people with those ideas because its easier. Someone should ask them about their forced settlement with Shirley Sherrod. Plansix the racism is strong within you. Breitbart is far from racist, that's just your demented liberal mind playing tricks on you as usual. Plansix logic: anything conservative/republican = racist. That's the extent of your logic. The writers on Breitbart do a (relatively) good job about not being overtly racist or homophobic but you just have to look at the comment section to see the sort of subhuman trash that website caters to. Saying Breitbart is "far from racist" is intellectually dishonest. It is about as close to racist as a "mainstream" "news" source can be. Even though it would likely be a death knell for this election, I really wish the Republican party would get its act together and focus on conservative politics, not social issues. The sooner they ditch people like those who visit Breitbart for their news, the sooner they may actually win a national election instead of pandering to extremists.
We'd end up with a 2+1 political landscape more like some of the European countries where there's a couple major contenders, then some weird racist/nationalistic party that gets a decent number of votes and elected officials but no real power.
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We need a way to get congress out of legislating; since its obviously bad at that. Maybe just have them give vague general guidance, and put someone else in charge of the specifics.
Its so easy to write a decent immigration policy, or a new tax code, or balance the budget; but they just fail to do those.
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On September 25 2015 05:38 zlefin wrote:
We need a way to get congress out of legislating; since its obviously bad at that. Maybe just have them give vague general guidance, and put someone else in charge of the specifics.
Its so easy to write a decent immigration policy, or a new tax code, or balance the budget; but they just fail to do those.
We already did that, congress hasn't written anything in years. We call them ALEC.
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On September 25 2015 05:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 05:38 zlefin wrote:
We need a way to get congress out of legislating; since its obviously bad at that. Maybe just have them give vague general guidance, and put someone else in charge of the specifics.
Its so easy to write a decent immigration policy, or a new tax code, or balance the budget; but they just fail to do those. We already did that, congress hasn't written anything in years. We call them ALEC.
Pretty sure its just called regulations
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They used to be better at writing budgets and legislating. They did it before. The problem right now is that there is a section of the Republican party that just wants to destroy any part of government they can get their hands on. And because of that, nothing can move forward.
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Literally no one was shocked.
Democrats in the U.S. Senate, joined by some Republicans, on Thursday blocked an effort denying federal funds for the women's healthcare group Planned Parenthood in a move that could help avoid a government shutdown on Oct. 1.
Most Senate Republicans had supported the plan to attach the Planned Parenthood defunding to a bill keeping government operating with the start of the new fiscal year on Oct. 1.
But 42 Democrats, two independents and eight Republicans banded together to stop the anti-abortion effort on a procedural vote, 11 more than the 41 needed to block the legislation.
At least one of the Republicans, Tom Cotton of Arkanas, said he cast his vote against the bill to protest inadequate military funding.
Just before the vote, the White House warned that President Barack Obama would veto legislation to continue funding the government if it strips away federal money for Planned Parenthood, setting up the showdown with anti-abortion advocates.
"By eliminating federal funding for a major provider of health care, the Senate amendment ... would limit access to health care for women, men, and families across the nation, and disproportionately impact low-income individuals," the White House statement said.
For weeks, many Republicans have vowed to punish Planned Parenthood following the release of secretly taped videos in which its officials discussed harvesting tissue from aborted fetuses.
Planned Parenthood, which receives over $500 million in government funds annually, denies any wrongdoing.
With the Oct. 1 deadline for passing a funding bill looming and Republican leaders in the Senate and House of Representatives trying to avoid a government shutdown, the Senate will next advance a bill funding the government until Dec. 11, but without the abortion rider.
Its fate in the House is unclear. House Republican leaders were huddling in the Capitol following the Senate vote.
Some House Republicans have said they cannot vote for a bill that provides money to Planned Parenthood. But on Wednesday some first-term House Republicans sent an open letter urging party colleagues not to take any steps that would lead to a shutdown.
Republican Representative Martha McSally Of Arizona, one of the lawmakers who signed the letter, told Reuters there should be "thoughtful investigations" of allegations against Planned Parenthood.
In supporting passage of a government-wide spending bill free of the Planned Parenthood rider, McSally said, "We don’t need low-income women who are trying to get access to birth control and preventative health to be collateral damage to the whole thing."
Source
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A white Florida Republican suggested knocking a black, longtime Democratic congresswoman out of her seat by gerrymandering more prisoners into her district, according to audio obtained by Politico and published on Wednesday.
Politico reported that state Rep. Janet Adkins (R) made the suggestion regarding U.S. Rep. Corrinne Brown's (D) district in a closed-door meeting of the North Florida Republican caucus.
“It's a perfect storm," Adkins said on the audio recording. "You draw it in such a fashion so perhaps, a majority, or maybe not a majority, but a number of them will live in the prisons, thereby not being able to vote."
Adkins made sure there were no reporters in the room before she made her comments, according to the report.
Brown, who is black, has filed a lawsuit to challenge the proposed redrawing of her district. She also told the Florida Senate Redistricting Committee that she was concerned that redrawing her district to include more prisons would lower its black voting population from 50 to 45 percent, according to Politico.
When Politico approached Adkins, who is white, about the comments she made on the recording, she said she was having a "private conversation" and noted that she does not serve on the state House redistricting committee.
Adkins said in a statement released later Wednesday that she was simply trying to explain what had been discussed in a special session on redistricting.
Source
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I still don't quite understand why a lot of US politics seem to be based on attaching random stuff to other random stuff for no apparent reason. Why can't you just vote on different topics independently?
If you want to defund PP, why not vote on that, instead of voting on attaching defunding PP to keeping the government running?
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On September 25 2015 00:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 00:28 LimpingGoat wrote:On September 24 2015 19:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 24 2015 13:53 LimpingGoat wrote:
I'm a solid liberal and I want to vote for Trump.
Change my view Can you elaborate on why you think Trump's policies and philosophies would be better for this country than Bernie Sanders's? To me, it doesn't really think like Trump has thought a lot of things through, and he's just winging it because he has no political experience. I don't, but I think Trump is a more viable general election candidate. He isn't. He unfavorables among all minorities are in the 60-70%. He rates poorly among independents, women and almost every group you need to win a general election. The polls now are only for winning the Republican primaries, which are increasingly requiring Republicans hurt themselves in the general election. He is unelectable unless the Democrats run an ax murderer.
He leads among independents against Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election. He gets 25 percent of the black vote compared to what Romney got which was 6 percent. He does better against Hispanics than Romney did, somehow. And he actually beats Hillary among Asians, which Romney only got 25 percent.
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EPT
