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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2339

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LimpingGoat
Profile Joined January 2015
898 Posts
September 24 2015 21:28 GMT
#46761
On September 25 2015 00:42 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 00:29 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:10 oneofthem wrote:
On September 24 2015 13:53 LimpingGoat wrote:
I'm a solid liberal and I want to vote for Trump.

Change my view

trump is the regi of politics


Reginald? I also like Reginald.

i know, just egging you on. what if trump is the thorin of politics?


For what it's worth, I actually like Thoorin. I just think he's got no clue when it comes to League of Legends analysis.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21650 Posts
September 24 2015 21:30 GMT
#46762
On September 25 2015 06:23 Simberto wrote:
I still don't quite understand why a lot of US politics seem to be based on attaching random stuff to other random stuff for no apparent reason. Why can't you just vote on different topics independently?

If you want to defund PP, why not vote on that, instead of voting on attaching defunding PP to keeping the government running?

Because it is allowed.
With no (or next to no) rules about what sort of amendments can be added you get stuff like this.
They know a vote to defund PP will fail 100% of the time so all they can do is hold other bills hostage.

The mentality of "If I can't win then no one will" is sadly all to prevalent.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
LimpingGoat
Profile Joined January 2015
898 Posts
September 24 2015 21:33 GMT
#46763
Also I'm not sure anyone has brought it up here but it's worth mentioning Bernie Sanders is basically only known and supported by young white guys.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 21:35:58
September 24 2015 21:35 GMT
#46764
On September 25 2015 06:25 LimpingGoat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 00:32 Plansix wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:28 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 24 2015 19:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 24 2015 13:53 LimpingGoat wrote:
I'm a solid liberal and I want to vote for Trump.

Change my view


Can you elaborate on why you think Trump's policies and philosophies would be better for this country than Bernie Sanders's? To me, it doesn't really think like Trump has thought a lot of things through, and he's just winging it because he has no political experience.


I don't, but I think Trump is a more viable general election candidate.

He isn't. He unfavorables among all minorities are in the 60-70%. He rates poorly among independents, women and almost every group you need to win a general election. The polls now are only for winning the Republican primaries, which are increasingly requiring Republicans hurt themselves in the general election. He is unelectable unless the Democrats run an ax murderer.


He leads among independents against Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election. He gets 25 percent of the black vote compared to what Romney got which was 6 percent. He does better against Hispanics than Romney did, somehow. And he actually beats Hillary among Asians, which Romney only got 25 percent.

And if doing slightly better than Romney is the metric for winning the election, he is there. The problem is that he get the electoral votes necessary and that won't happen. Especially once people start paying attention and stop treating the election like a reality show.

On September 25 2015 06:33 LimpingGoat wrote:
Also I'm not sure anyone has brought it up here but it's worth mentioning Bernie Sanders is basically only known and supported by young white guys.


And Obama was basically unknown nationally.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LimpingGoat
Profile Joined January 2015
898 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 21:37:56
September 24 2015 21:37 GMT
#46765
On September 25 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 06:25 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:32 Plansix wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:28 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 24 2015 19:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 24 2015 13:53 LimpingGoat wrote:
I'm a solid liberal and I want to vote for Trump.

Change my view


Can you elaborate on why you think Trump's policies and philosophies would be better for this country than Bernie Sanders's? To me, it doesn't really think like Trump has thought a lot of things through, and he's just winging it because he has no political experience.


I don't, but I think Trump is a more viable general election candidate.

He isn't. He unfavorables among all minorities are in the 60-70%. He rates poorly among independents, women and almost every group you need to win a general election. The polls now are only for winning the Republican primaries, which are increasingly requiring Republicans hurt themselves in the general election. He is unelectable unless the Democrats run an ax murderer.


He leads among independents against Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election. He gets 25 percent of the black vote compared to what Romney got which was 6 percent. He does better against Hispanics than Romney did, somehow. And he actually beats Hillary among Asians, which Romney only got 25 percent.

And if doing slightly better than Romney is the metric for winning the election, he is there. The problem is that he get the electoral votes necessary and that won't happen. Especially once people start paying attention and stop treating the election like a reality show.

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 06:33 LimpingGoat wrote:
Also I'm not sure anyone has brought it up here but it's worth mentioning Bernie Sanders is basically only known and supported by young white guys.


And Obama was basically unknown nationally.


Comparing crazy uncle Bernie to political superstar Barack Obama
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13901 Posts
September 24 2015 21:41 GMT
#46766
Barack had that rockstar national convention speech. Bernie is a much more grass routes "GOP is in tatters why can't we get someone whos not just electable?" groundswell.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 21:46:03
September 24 2015 21:44 GMT
#46767
On September 25 2015 06:37 LimpingGoat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:
On September 25 2015 06:25 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:32 Plansix wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:28 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 24 2015 19:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 24 2015 13:53 LimpingGoat wrote:
I'm a solid liberal and I want to vote for Trump.

Change my view


Can you elaborate on why you think Trump's policies and philosophies would be better for this country than Bernie Sanders's? To me, it doesn't really think like Trump has thought a lot of things through, and he's just winging it because he has no political experience.


I don't, but I think Trump is a more viable general election candidate.

He isn't. He unfavorables among all minorities are in the 60-70%. He rates poorly among independents, women and almost every group you need to win a general election. The polls now are only for winning the Republican primaries, which are increasingly requiring Republicans hurt themselves in the general election. He is unelectable unless the Democrats run an ax murderer.


He leads among independents against Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election. He gets 25 percent of the black vote compared to what Romney got which was 6 percent. He does better against Hispanics than Romney did, somehow. And he actually beats Hillary among Asians, which Romney only got 25 percent.

And if doing slightly better than Romney is the metric for winning the election, he is there. The problem is that he get the electoral votes necessary and that won't happen. Especially once people start paying attention and stop treating the election like a reality show.

On September 25 2015 06:33 LimpingGoat wrote:
Also I'm not sure anyone has brought it up here but it's worth mentioning Bernie Sanders is basically only known and supported by young white guys.


And Obama was basically unknown nationally.


Comparing crazy uncle Bernie to political superstar Barack Obama

The fact that you think Obama was a super star when he started his campaign shows you were not paying attention. People were shocked by how much media he was able to grab and the he raised as much as Clinton. His only claim to fame at that point was a nation convention speech. Nationally he was unknown beyond the hard core in his own party.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Eskendereya
Profile Joined August 2015
United States97 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 21:47:00
September 24 2015 21:46 GMT
#46768
I don't know much about Bernie Sanders but I found these videos interesting, not sure what Bernie fans think of it:



(go to 5:45)

Basically these people expose Bernie Sanders as a fraud who supports war.

I wouldn't consider voting for Bernie based on the fact that he's a self-proclaimed socialist which I'm not in a believer in whatsoever.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 24 2015 21:53 GMT
#46769
i don't know about these ecomonic troubles, sounds serious
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13901 Posts
September 24 2015 21:57 GMT
#46770
I stopped watching the first video when the lady said that bernie sanders was an imperialist for supporting clintons intervention into a genocide. Supporting genocide doesn't get you any points with the electorate.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42567 Posts
September 24 2015 22:01 GMT
#46771
Eskendereya I'm not sure you have a working knowledge of, well, anything.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 24 2015 22:03 GMT
#46772
Pope Francis’s unequivocal call in his speech before Congress for the death penalty to be abolished in the US comes at a critical moment in the history of the ultimate punishment, with several states preparing to restart the controversial practice after several months of interlude.

The pontiff’s bold statement on Thursday could not be misconstrued: he told the assembled members of Congress that he wanted to see the “global abolition of the death penalty”.

He rooted his opposition in fundamental moral ground, saying the conviction stemmed from his belief that “every life is sacred, every human person is endowed with inalienable dignity, and society can only benefit from the rehabilitation of those convicted of crimes”.

A total of 1,414 prisoners have been executed in the US since the modern death penalty started in 1976. Overall, the practice has been on the wane since its peak in 1999 when 98 prisoners were killed – last year that number fell to 35.

But though the wind of change is blowing against US capital punishment, a group of states, mainly in the south, continue to adhere doggedly to the contentious penalty. In June, the US supreme court in effect removed barriers to carrying out executions when it gave the go-ahead for the use of a controversial drug, midazolam, in death protocols – thus clearing a legal barrier that had been holding states back for several months.

Now the death penalty rump is cranking back in to executions with renewed vigor. Between now and the end of October, 11 executions are scheduled in seven states – Arkansas, Georgia, Missouri, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas and Virginia.

It was within that context that the pope delivered his forthright words. Robert Dunham of the Death Penalty Information Center said that Francis commanded significant influence.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
September 24 2015 22:04 GMT
#46773
eskend; the second one is obviously a trash video which doesn't even bother to spell check its title. I suspect the first is also pretty poor, based on the record, not enough time to view it right now to verify.
There are more than enough legitimate disagreements and reasons to vote against him, no need to use poorly argued and trash videos.
Are you able to recognize that they are trash videos, and not actual good sources of reasons?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23188 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 22:11:00
September 24 2015 22:06 GMT
#46774
On September 25 2015 06:46 Eskendereya wrote:
I don't know much about Bernie Sanders but I found these videos interesting, not sure what Bernie fans think of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8BTMK9c1XE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbGtc34w7KY (go to 5:45)

Basically these people expose Bernie Sanders as a fraud who supports war.

I wouldn't consider voting for Bernie based on the fact that he's a self-proclaimed socialist which I'm not in a believer in whatsoever.



I find it hilarious. The only consistent line of attack on Bernie has been the assertion he's a "socialist" to which socialists universally say "no he's not".

Basically it's the far left saying "no he's not us" to which Republicans (and some Hillary supporters) say "yeah he is". To which Sanders supporters "wtf?"

Republicans will take any whacko at their word if they say they are a ISIS follower and call it Islam but here you have socialists and supporters telling you loud and clear that "No, he's not a socialist" and yet we have people who don't have a clue what the word even means, using it as a disqualifier.

Though considering they are still struggling with which country our president was born in, I can't really be surprised.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 24 2015 22:22 GMT
#46775
but why would you call yourself a socialist unless you just want to not get elected?
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21650 Posts
September 24 2015 22:24 GMT
#46776
I thought we discredited Eskendereya's posting multiple times already in recent weeks.

Surprise! he is back without silly indefensible postion.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
September 24 2015 22:29 GMT
#46777
On September 25 2015 06:25 LimpingGoat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 00:32 Plansix wrote:
On September 25 2015 00:28 LimpingGoat wrote:
On September 24 2015 19:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 24 2015 13:53 LimpingGoat wrote:
I'm a solid liberal and I want to vote for Trump.

Change my view


Can you elaborate on why you think Trump's policies and philosophies would be better for this country than Bernie Sanders's? To me, it doesn't really think like Trump has thought a lot of things through, and he's just winging it because he has no political experience.


I don't, but I think Trump is a more viable general election candidate.

He isn't. He unfavorables among all minorities are in the 60-70%. He rates poorly among independents, women and almost every group you need to win a general election. The polls now are only for winning the Republican primaries, which are increasingly requiring Republicans hurt themselves in the general election. He is unelectable unless the Democrats run an ax murderer.


He leads among independents against Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election. He gets 25 percent of the black vote compared to what Romney got which was 6 percent. He does better against Hispanics than Romney did, somehow. And he actually beats Hillary among Asians, which Romney only got 25 percent.


Everything you just mentioned is from one old poll (that used questionable methodology). He still has horrible numbers with blacks and Hispanics, his "lead" with Asians is statistically insignificant, and his overall favorability numbers are atrocious.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
September 24 2015 22:35 GMT
#46778
On September 25 2015 06:33 LimpingGoat wrote:
Also I'm not sure anyone has brought it up here but it's worth mentioning Bernie Sanders is basically only known and supported by young white guys.


Citation? I see MANY different people posting about him online. And it's about equally male/female, with some black support as well.

I really don't know where you got that idea because that's not the impression I'm getting here at ALL.
For Aiur???
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 22:37:06
September 24 2015 22:36 GMT
#46779
Sanders might be a socialist, but his policies are unfortunately not for the most part.
Considering that he admires the " Nordic model of social democracy", I dont get why people dont just call him a social democrat.
TL+ Member
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
September 24 2015 22:44 GMT
#46780
On September 25 2015 07:36 Paljas wrote:
Sanders might be a socialist, but his policies are unfortunately not for the most part.
Considering that he admires the " Nordic model of social democracy", I dont get why people dont just call him a social democrat.


He calls himself a 'democratic socialist'. To which people will latch on to only the word 'socialist'. In America the word 'socialist' means 'communist', they're the exact same thing in America's mind. So he's a communist.
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