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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2341

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-25 05:38:03
September 25 2015 05:28 GMT
#46801
i said CO2 because it's not really a pollutant in the same sense as particulates etc.

chinese cities do make a big deal out of particulates, the relatively well run ones will have pressure to relocate the industry stuff away. but there's like 0 attention paid to CO2 in their domestic policy.

but when the beacon of environmentalism germany is advocating 'clean diesel' vw style, it's not a uniquely china thing to be all talk about this stuff. .
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 25 2015 06:58 GMT
#46802
On September 25 2015 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 07:44 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On September 25 2015 07:36 Paljas wrote:
Sanders might be a socialist, but his policies are unfortunately not for the most part.
Considering that he admires the " Nordic model of social democracy", I dont get why people dont just call him a social democrat.


He calls himself a 'democratic socialist'. To which people will latch on to only the word 'socialist'. In America the word 'socialist' means 'communist', they're the exact same thing in America's mind. So he's a communist.


No, its because Socialists/Socialism is a dead strategy for most politicians, and for all intents and purposes "Social Democrats" are socialists. The evolution from socialist to social democrat is not an ideological one, its a political evolution.

The problem with socialism (from a politician's point of view) is it involves culpability. When your state-run venture fails everyone just points at you and blames you, then elects someone else. The social democrat has no such problem, as he actually is the one who slings the blame (at corporations, the rich, etc) while still having significant control over those that he blames through taxes and regulation. That is why all the shrewd socialists are now social democrats.
Interesting. I hadn't considered the blame-pivot facet of the new democratic socialists. The terms certainly seem to cycle every twenty years or so, but I didn't think past the acquired stigma rationale.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-25 07:20:18
September 25 2015 07:18 GMT
#46803
You guys act like this term social-democrat is "new" and a "strategy", and that Bernie hasn't been calling himself this since the 70's.

That's half a century ago, almost.

Maybe, just maybe, he calls himself a social democrat because he believes in democracy and socialism, and realizes those things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, if an elected representative actually represents the majority of his constituents, then the two terms rather seem to belong together.
Big water
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10910 Posts
September 25 2015 08:45 GMT
#46804
On September 25 2015 15:58 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
On September 25 2015 07:44 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On September 25 2015 07:36 Paljas wrote:
Sanders might be a socialist, but his policies are unfortunately not for the most part.
Considering that he admires the " Nordic model of social democracy", I dont get why people dont just call him a social democrat.


He calls himself a 'democratic socialist'. To which people will latch on to only the word 'socialist'. In America the word 'socialist' means 'communist', they're the exact same thing in America's mind. So he's a communist.


No, its because Socialists/Socialism is a dead strategy for most politicians, and for all intents and purposes "Social Democrats" are socialists. The evolution from socialist to social democrat is not an ideological one, its a political evolution.

The problem with socialism (from a politician's point of view) is it involves culpability. When your state-run venture fails everyone just points at you and blames you, then elects someone else. The social democrat has no such problem, as he actually is the one who slings the blame (at corporations, the rich, etc) while still having significant control over those that he blames through taxes and regulation. That is why all the shrewd socialists are now social democrats.
Interesting. I hadn't considered the blame-pivot facet of the new democratic socialists. The terms certainly seem to cycle every twenty years or so, but I didn't think past the acquired stigma rationale.


Many, many state run companies actually made tons of winnings (at least in Switzerland, I doubt its much diffrent in other countries)... Most of them got privatised anyway cause... "Reasons".
I have troubles thinking of a privatised company that is now doing better than before or, when the state still holds a majority of the capital, where they are run worse than the fully private competition.

Could someone give me an example of a company that got better (more winnings, same service, same stability...) after it has gone 100% private?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 25 2015 12:18 GMT
#46805
Younger and less religious Americans are more likely to approve of Pope Francis' climate message than older Americans and even Catholics themselves, according to the results of a new national Quinnipiac University survey released Friday.

About six in 10 Americans agree with the pope's recent call for the world to redouble its efforts in fighting climate change, at 61 percent to 26 percent overall. Along denominational lines, 51 percent of Protestants agree, compared to 36 percent who do not, while 67 percent of Catholics agree with the Holy Father's message and 23 percent do not.

But among those who described themselves as not religiously affiliated, 74 percent agreed with the Argentinian pope's global message while just 16 percent said they do not. Adults aged 18 to 34 backed the pope on climate change to the tune of 69 percent to 18 percent, while approval trends downward among older age groups, to just 52 percent to 33 percent approval among those 65 years or older.

In terms of overall favorability, 21 percent said they had a very favorable opinion of Pope Francis, while 44 percent said it was favorable. Just 12 percent said they had an unfavorable opinion, and 4 percent said they had a very unfavorable opinion, while 19 percent were not sure.

Speaking before Congress on Thursday, the pope remarked that he had “no doubt that the United States – and this Congress – have an important role to play” in addressing the environmental affects of human activity.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44139 Posts
September 25 2015 13:49 GMT
#46806
How can Catholics have less than 100% approval of the Pope? Has nobody told them how their religion works?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
September 25 2015 13:49 GMT
#46807
Boehner resigns.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/speaker-john-boehner-retiring-from-congress-at-the-end-of-october-214056
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 25 2015 13:55 GMT
#46808
Not shocked at all. After dealing with the Tea Party babies for so many years, he must be spent. Now the race for the new clown herder beings.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
September 25 2015 13:56 GMT
#46809
On September 25 2015 22:49 KwarK wrote:
How can Catholics have less than 100% approval of the Pope? Has nobody told them how their religion works?

Was he speaking ex cathedra about faith or a moral question ?
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-25 13:59:09
September 25 2015 13:58 GMT
#46810
On September 25 2015 22:49 RCMDVA wrote:
Boehner resigns.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/speaker-john-boehner-retiring-from-congress-at-the-end-of-october-214056


"Fuck this shit I'm out"

"The Tea Party literally gave me cancer"
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
September 25 2015 14:12 GMT
#46811
On September 25 2015 22:49 RCMDVA wrote:
Boehner resigns.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/speaker-john-boehner-retiring-from-congress-at-the-end-of-october-214056


Interesting. So how does the process of selecting a new Speaker go? Does Kevin McCarthy just move up from second-in-command, or is there an election within the House?
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10910 Posts
September 25 2015 14:13 GMT
#46812
Isn't this kinda a strange moment for this? Wouldn't he normally wait for the presidential elections to be over?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 25 2015 14:18 GMT
#46813
On September 25 2015 23:13 Velr wrote:
Isn't this kinda a strange moment for this? Wouldn't he normally wait for the presidential elections to be over?

Yes, it is very odd. He either has some personal matters that he needs to resolve, or he is just totally fed up with dealing with the tea party babies.

And there are already rumors of them making a huge push to get some tea party clown in the speaker’s seat, even though they are not the majority of the Republican’s by any stretch.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
September 25 2015 14:20 GMT
#46814
On September 25 2015 22:49 KwarK wrote:
How can Catholics have less than 100% approval of the Pope? Has nobody told them how their religion works?

Many Catholics have opposed the idea of papal infallibility for hundreds of years, if that's what you're getting at. So this is nothing new.
dude bro.
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
September 25 2015 14:25 GMT
#46815
On September 25 2015 22:56 corumjhaelen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 22:49 KwarK wrote:
How can Catholics have less than 100% approval of the Pope? Has nobody told them how their religion works?

Was he speaking ex cathedra about faith or a moral question ?

In my opinion, absolutely.
dude bro.
Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
September 25 2015 14:28 GMT
#46816
On September 25 2015 23:13 Velr wrote:
Isn't this kinda a strange moment for this? Wouldn't he normally wait for the presidential elections to be over?


I think it's because he really doesn't want to be involved in a government shutdown, but in order to avoid one, he has to pass a funding bill with the help of the Democrats (Pelosi has said they would be willing to do so). However, he's already really unpopular with the GOP base, and such a move would REALLY get them pissed off and give the tea party even more ammunition for having him replaced.

I am surprised he's resigning from Congress entirely though, rather than just the speakership.
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
September 25 2015 14:48 GMT
#46817
He prolly just said fuck it. If he isn't speaker or part of the leadership, then it's a huge drop in status, prestige, and power. I wouldn't bother to stay if I was quitting the speakership either. This way he can wait his 2 years and get his high paying lobbying job a bit earlier
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 25 2015 14:52 GMT
#46818
it probably has to do with the utter clusterfuck of another shutdown
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 25 2015 14:57 GMT
#46819
On September 25 2015 23:52 oneofthem wrote:
it probably has to do with the utter clusterfuck of another shutdown

If you had Trump and Cruz leading the charge of your party and were losing the fight to avoid a shut down over PP, which the majority of Americans want funded(including the people in his state), you would bag out too. I’m surprised he held on for this long having to fight tooth and nail with the clown show every day. The Democrats have not been his biggest opponent to getting things done in congress for a while now.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-25 15:24:49
September 25 2015 15:23 GMT
#46820
On September 25 2015 23:20 heliusx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2015 22:49 KwarK wrote:
How can Catholics have less than 100% approval of the Pope? Has nobody told them how their religion works?

Many Catholics have opposed the idea of papal infallibility for hundreds of years, if that's what you're getting at. So this is nothing new.

I'm not very proficitent with christianity (or other religions/magic beliefs), but aren't those called "protestants" and not catholics?
Get off my lawn, young punks
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