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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2015 20:05 GMT
#45481
Hillary Clinton is proposing a slate of campaign finance reform measures aimed at limiting political donations by corporations and large donors while increasing transparency in election spending.

Clinton, who is seeking the nomination to be the Democratic candidate in the November 2016 presidential election, identified measures she would pursue if she became president.

Among them are rules requiring greater disclosure of political spending, including by publicly traded companies and US government contractors, and a program that would provide matching funds for small donations to presidential and congressional candidates.

“We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans,” Clinton said.

“Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.”

The measures are aimed at tapping into voter concern over inequality, ranging from income to influence in national affairs. Clinton has put the issue at the center of her campaign, saying she will champion “everyday Americans” and boost the middle class.

But Clinton has come in for criticism for that theme, given her own family wealth and her decades in high-profile public positions.

Clinton also plans to call for an overturning of the controversial 2010 Citizens United ruling by the supreme court. It allowed corporations and individuals to spend unlimited money for political advocacy through independent political action committees so long as they do not coordinate with candidates.

That ruling has become a flashpoint on the campaign trail, drawing criticism from other candidates as well, such as Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who has pressured Clinton on her left.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 08 2015 20:16 GMT
#45482
I am all for more disclosure when it comes to Super PACs and other not direct financing of election ads. It is a shell game right now, where you have no idea where any of this money is coming from or who to hold accountable if the ads straight up lie.

Last election it took NPR 3 months just to track down the employee for a super PAC who ordered ads. He who just did it as a second job and was hired through the internet. He had never met the people he was working for and didn’t know who they were. . That isn’t acceptable when it come to elections.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2015 20:18 GMT
#45483
Tens of thousands of people in the United States and abroad have signed petitions calling on President Barack Obama to accept more Syrian refugees, as European governments continue to grapple with a massive influx of newcomers — most of them from war-torn Syria.

A WhiteHouse.gov petition that requires 100,000 signatures to be formally considered by the Obama administration had 47,463 as of 1:30 a.m. EDT on Tuesday. The petition, launched on Aug. 31 has until the end of September to meet its goal.

The Obama administration said it is "actively considering" ways to be more responsive to the global migrant crisis, including refugee resettlement. Peter Boogaard, a spokesman for the National Security Council, did not elaborate on specific measures being considered, but said they included "refugee resettlement." Boogaard noted that the U.S. has provided over $4 billion in humanitarian assistance since the Syrian crisis began, and over $1 billion in assistance this year.

Former Secretary of State and presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton called for a "concerted global effort" to assist refugees fleeing their homelands.

"I think we need to have a broad-based global response," Clinton told the Associated Press. "The United States certainly should be at the table, but so should everybody else."

Meanwhile, several other petitions have been launched on advocacy websites such as MoveOn.org, calling on the U.S. to lift its limit on Syrian refugees as Europe struggled to cope with record numbers of asylum seekers. Almost 1,300 people of a 2,000-person goal had signed a petition — one of several — set to be delivered to Obama.

One MoveOn.org petition signer, the Reverend Everett Shattuck, 59, a Church of the Brethren minister from Mill Creek, Indiana, said opening his home to refugees was part of the U.S. tradition of welcoming immigrants.

“Plus, we have to share some responsibility for that [war] because of our regime changes in the Middle East. Most of those refugees are a result of that,” Shattuck said, alluding to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003.

But others, although welcoming refugees, worried that extremists could enter the U.S. along with those fleeing the fighting.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2015 20:22 GMT
#45484
This should be entertaining:

A federal judged ordered Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis be released from custody and her contempt order be lifted Tuesday, but her lawyers said the defiant clerk plans to continue blocking marriage licenses for gay couples when she returns to work.

Davis was ordered into federal custody Sept. 3 after repeatedly refusing to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, saying it would violate her religious beliefs, despite a U.S. Supreme Court ruling against her.

A CNN journalist at the jail reported that according to her attorneys, Davis "has not changed her mind" and intends to bring the licensing process to a halt all over again when she's back on the job.

“The problem here is that the attorney says she has not changed her mind, that Kim Davis is adamant that as long as her name appears on those marriage licenses, she objects and she will attempt to stop those licenses from being distributed,” CNN correspondent Martin Savidge said during a live broadcast.

In his release order, federal judge David Bunning ordered Davis not interfere in any way "with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses to all legally eligible couples." All of the Rowan County deputy clerks but one – Davis' son – said last week they would issue licenses to LGBT couples, and the first couples received marriage licenses on Sept. 4.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22049 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-08 20:34:09
September 08 2015 20:33 GMT
#45485
On September 09 2015 05:22 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
This should be entertaining:

Show nested quote +
A federal judged ordered Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis be released from custody and her contempt order be lifted Tuesday, but her lawyers said the defiant clerk plans to continue blocking marriage licenses for gay couples when she returns to work.

Davis was ordered into federal custody Sept. 3 after repeatedly refusing to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, saying it would violate her religious beliefs, despite a U.S. Supreme Court ruling against her.

A CNN journalist at the jail reported that according to her attorneys, Davis "has not changed her mind" and intends to bring the licensing process to a halt all over again when she's back on the job.

“The problem here is that the attorney says she has not changed her mind, that Kim Davis is adamant that as long as her name appears on those marriage licenses, she objects and she will attempt to stop those licenses from being distributed,” CNN correspondent Martin Savidge said during a live broadcast.

In his release order, federal judge David Bunning ordered Davis not interfere in any way "with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses to all legally eligible couples." All of the Rowan County deputy clerks but one – Davis' son – said last week they would issue licenses to LGBT couples, and the first couples received marriage licenses on Sept. 4.


Source

So how many hours before she is back in jail?
im guessing within 36
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 08 2015 20:37 GMT
#45486
I'm hoping the deputy clerks ignore her. Then she can fire them and cost the county an amazing amount in a wrongful termination lawsuit. And she would go back to jail for violation of the judges order.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18186 Posts
September 08 2015 21:14 GMT
#45487
On September 07 2015 10:09 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2015 02:02 KwarK wrote:
On September 07 2015 01:31 coverpunch wrote:
On September 06 2015 23:36 JinDesu wrote:
On September 06 2015 08:17 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 06 2015 08:11 zlefin wrote:
A skilled politician should be able to come up with answers that bend around the situation well enough to satisfy multiple groups. It doesn't seem like it should be so hard to find a way to address the Iraq war without being against his brother.


Journalists have been pretty good at getting a good answer, even directly saying: "Iraq: Good idea or bad idea?"

There's no way around that.


Jeb Bush got hit with that I think. His response was, repeatedly, "Based on the information at the time, it was a good idea. Based on the information now, it wasn't."

Well the question the journalist asked him was, "Would you invade Iraq?", but the gist is the same.

Like literally, no matter how the reporter rephrased the question, that was his answer over and over.

I will point out that hypotheticals rehashing history are loaded questions. Any answer you give can only upset people or it can lead to impossible follow-up questions. There's no correct answer that satisfies people and that's by design.

Not really. He could say "Clearly the situation in the Middle East and in North Africa has gotten less stable, not more. The quality of life of the people there has gotten worse and Islamic extremism has never been stronger. It was a mistake to intervene and I think everyone now recognizes that. We should focus on what we can do to learn from that mistake and to fix the situation."

It's not a controversial point that it was a failure.

It was a failure or it is now? It's also a bit bizarre to treat it solely as a Bush policy and ignore the seven years under Obama.

Obama himself sang a different tune in 2011:


Show nested quote +
"We knew this day would come. We've known it for some time. But still there is something profound about the end of a war that has lasted so long," said Obama. "It's harder to end a war than begin one. Everything that American troops have done in Iraq - all the fighting, all the dying, the bleeding and the building and the training and the partnering, all of it has landed to this moment of success."...

"Iraq's not a perfect place. It has many challenges ahead. But we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self reliant Iraq with a representative government that was elected by its people. We're building a new partnership between our nations and we are ending a war not with a final battle but with a final march toward home. This is an extraordinary achievement," he said...

"Our efforts in Iraq have taken many twists and turns. It was a source of great controversy at home with patriots on both sides of the debate. But there was one constant: your patriotism. Your commitment to fulfil your mission. Your abiding commitment to one another. That was constant. That did not change. That did not waver," he said to loud cheers.

I don't think anyone is going to be calling Iraq a failure or a mistake. It's fine for Sanders to say it to cheering anti-war crowds, but it won't work with a broader audience that needs the president to show strong confidence in America's inherent goodness and for other members of government that need him to go along with American policy. It certainly isn't going to work for a Republican who is an establishment candidate.

The other big problem with your proposed answer is it raises too many interesting questions about what the next president plans to do in the Middle East and North Africa. All of the solutions on the table under Obama have been so unpopular that only the Iran deal has been worth pursuing and everyone has been content to let Obama use drones or train proxy armies, giving the political capital to say America is doing something but not being sucked into a wasteful commitment. But everyone recognizes that the situation is continuing to deteriorate and nobody has a good answer.


I find it extremely weird that in order to believe America is inherently good, everything it has done ever must therefore be good and righteous. Is not admitting that you made mistakes and have learned from them both a better (aka more good!) approach, as well as a saner approach to all policy? To err is human, and America being good is not the same as America being infallible.

Oh, I also don't buy into America is inherently good rhetoric, but if that's what you have to portray to win elections then three cheers for nationalism and get to it.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43460 Posts
September 08 2015 21:16 GMT
#45488
Acrofales, I'm beginning to wonder if you really love America. And if you don't love America you can just leave.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 08 2015 21:20 GMT
#45489
Yeah, how dare you question the America.
Yargh
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18186 Posts
September 08 2015 21:20 GMT
#45490
On September 07 2015 22:43 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn.-- In the wake of the Supreme Court's decision to make same-sex marriage legal and Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis' refusal to issue gays marriage licenses, a Chattanooga Chancellor is now using the Supreme Court decision to deny a divorce.

Chancellor Jeffrey M. Atherton says he could not rule on the divorce of a couple in their 60s because “With the U.S. Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’s judiciary must now await the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage.” Chancellor Atherton added "The conclusion reached by this Court is that Tennesseans have been deemed by the U.S. Supreme Court to be incompetent to define and address such keystone/central institutions such as marriage, and, thereby, at minimum, contested divorces."

Seven witnesses and 77 exhibits were admitted into evidence in the divorce case of Pamela and Thomas Bumgardner, but Chancellor Atherton stated the evidence presented was "mixed at best" and added they did not prove "inappropriate marital conduct by a preponderance of the evidence."


Tennessee Judge Rules Against Couple's Divorce, Cites SCOTUS Gay Marriage Decision


I don't care about the legal ramifications. I just think it is fucking appalling that this judge takes some poor (trying to break up) couples' life and ruins it for the sake of making a political point.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2015 21:20 GMT
#45491
A unit of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters has won an election to represent California recycling plant workers, opening the door to a legal challenge of a U.S. labor board's decision redefining the relationship between companies and workers hired by franchises and staffing agencies.

The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) announced Tuesday that Teamsters Local 350 won the 2014 election handily, by a vote of 73-17. The ballots were not counted until last week, after the board issued a decision saying the plant's owner, Browning-Ferris Industries, was a “joint employer" of workers hired by a staffing company.

The NLRB’s new joint employer standard could upend workplace practices among franchisors and subcontractors because it expands the legal liability that many businesses could face for alleged labor violations. For example, McDonald’s USA could now be considered jointly responsible for the working conditions at its franchised locations if it is found to exercise sufficient control over how franchisees treat employees.

The Teamsters claimed victory in the election days before the Tuesday NLRB announcement.

“This is a big victory for these workers who patiently stood together to change their own lives for the better, and helped millions of other workers in the process,” said Teamsters Solid Waste and Recycling Division director Ron Herrera in a Friday statement.

The union's lawyer, Susan Garea, said Browning-Ferris is expected to refuse to bargain with the Teamsters. If that happens, the union would file a complaint with the board, she said, and the case would likely end up before a U.S. appeals court, though that could take years.

But in the meantime, the NLRB’s general counsel is continuing to move forward with parallel litigation that lists McDonald’s as a joint employer with selected franchisees.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-08 21:24:58
September 08 2015 21:24 GMT
#45492
On September 09 2015 06:20 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2015 22:43 farvacola wrote:
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn.-- In the wake of the Supreme Court's decision to make same-sex marriage legal and Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis' refusal to issue gays marriage licenses, a Chattanooga Chancellor is now using the Supreme Court decision to deny a divorce.

Chancellor Jeffrey M. Atherton says he could not rule on the divorce of a couple in their 60s because “With the U.S. Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’s judiciary must now await the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage.” Chancellor Atherton added "The conclusion reached by this Court is that Tennesseans have been deemed by the U.S. Supreme Court to be incompetent to define and address such keystone/central institutions such as marriage, and, thereby, at minimum, contested divorces."

Seven witnesses and 77 exhibits were admitted into evidence in the divorce case of Pamela and Thomas Bumgardner, but Chancellor Atherton stated the evidence presented was "mixed at best" and added they did not prove "inappropriate marital conduct by a preponderance of the evidence."


Tennessee Judge Rules Against Couple's Divorce, Cites SCOTUS Gay Marriage Decision


I don't care about the legal ramifications. I just think it is fucking appalling that this judge takes some poor (trying to break up) couples' life and ruins it for the sake of making a political point.

He is a District Court Judge, which is the lowest level of the court system in almost every state To be honest, I've seen worse than that ruling out of the Boston District Courts. The ruling sucks, but it is also the easiest to overturn.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18186 Posts
September 08 2015 21:29 GMT
#45493
On September 08 2015 11:15 Chocolate wrote:
Yeah I agree marijuana isn't a gateway drug in the true sense of the word, but I didn't know that calling it a gateway drug meant the relationship had to be causative.

I'm not going to give you a source because I don't care enough to do so but don't play dumb and act like most crack smokers haven't used cannabis in some form at some point in their lives.

You got that correlation the wrong way round.

The fact that most crack smokers used marihuana says absolutely nothing about marihuana smokers and everything about crack smokers.

It's like trying to claim that all animals are cows, because you can easily show that all cows are animals. That the evidence to the contrary doesn't hold up you comfortably ignore by pointing out how every cow you have studied has turned out to be an animal, and therefore being an animal is a gateway to being a cow (okay, I might really have stretched the metaphor here, but I ran with it and had fun!)
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43460 Posts
September 08 2015 21:39 GMT
#45494
It's called a false syllogism.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11713 Posts
September 08 2015 21:46 GMT
#45495
On September 09 2015 06:29 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 11:15 Chocolate wrote:
Yeah I agree marijuana isn't a gateway drug in the true sense of the word, but I didn't know that calling it a gateway drug meant the relationship had to be causative.

I'm not going to give you a source because I don't care enough to do so but don't play dumb and act like most crack smokers haven't used cannabis in some form at some point in their lives.

You got that correlation the wrong way round.

The fact that most crack smokers used marihuana says absolutely nothing about marihuana smokers and everything about crack smokers.

It's like trying to claim that all animals are cows, because you can easily show that all cows are animals. That the evidence to the contrary doesn't hold up you comfortably ignore by pointing out how every cow you have studied has turned out to be an animal, and therefore being an animal is a gateway to being a cow (okay, I might really have stretched the metaphor here, but I ran with it and had fun!)


A correlation is twodirectional. It also says nothing about causation. If a correlates with b, that also means b correlates with a, but it does not say anything about whether a causes b, b causes a, c causes a and b, or any other thing you can imagine. It just means that a and b tend to appear in tandem more or less often than random chance would make them.

Being a cow correlates with being an animal and being an animal correlates with being a cow. (If you have a random sample of things, and look how often "cow" and "animal" appear in tandem, it will happen more often than it statistically would if they were both randomly distributed.) This does not mean that being a cow causes being an animal, or that being an animal causes being a cow.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 08 2015 21:48 GMT
#45496
Look, I solved this earlier. Pizza is a gateway drug because everyone who is doing crack ate pizza earlier in life. Therefore, by the logic of gateway drugs, pizza causes crack addiction. Poverty has nothing to do with it at all.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2015 21:53 GMT
#45497
It's all Politics even with Theocratic ideologues

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18186 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-08 21:57:18
September 08 2015 21:54 GMT
#45498
On September 09 2015 06:46 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2015 06:29 Acrofales wrote:
On September 08 2015 11:15 Chocolate wrote:
Yeah I agree marijuana isn't a gateway drug in the true sense of the word, but I didn't know that calling it a gateway drug meant the relationship had to be causative.

I'm not going to give you a source because I don't care enough to do so but don't play dumb and act like most crack smokers haven't used cannabis in some form at some point in their lives.

You got that correlation the wrong way round.

The fact that most crack smokers used marihuana says absolutely nothing about marihuana smokers and everything about crack smokers.

It's like trying to claim that all animals are cows, because you can easily show that all cows are animals. That the evidence to the contrary doesn't hold up you comfortably ignore by pointing out how every cow you have studied has turned out to be an animal, and therefore being an animal is a gateway to being a cow (okay, I might really have stretched the metaphor here, but I ran with it and had fun!)


A correlation is twodirectional. It also says nothing about causation. If a correlates with b, that also means b correlates with a, but it does not say anything about whether a causes b, b causes a, c causes a and b, or any other thing you can imagine. It just means that a and b tend to appear in tandem more or less often than random chance would make them.

Being a cow correlates with being an animal and being an animal correlates with being a cow. (If you have a random sample of things, and look how often "cow" and "animal" appear in tandem, it will happen more often than it statistically would if they were both randomly distributed.) This does not mean that being a cow causes being an animal, or that being an animal causes being a cow.


Trust me, I know statistics, and the point is in the bait and switch of the populations. Just as you are changing your population in the original problem (and hence why I thought the metaphor was apt).

Population 1: only consists of cows. Being a cow is 100% correlated with being an animal (and obviously vice versa).

Population 2: consists of all animals. Being a cow is only very slightly correlated with being an animal (still a positive correlation, just very tiny, because in the grand scale of things there are a couple of hundreds of billions animals (if not trillions), and at least one order of magnitude less cows (a rough upper bound guess I would say 10 billion but it is probably considerably less than that).

To be fair, calling this correlation is wrong, because it is technically covariance, but /shrug.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22049 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-08 22:01:50
September 08 2015 22:00 GMT
#45499
On September 09 2015 06:53 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
It's all Politics even with Theocratic ideologues

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/641363096167051264

oh look dumb Republicans doing dumb shit. Can we get the primary over with so these people can fade out of the news again?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-08 22:05:41
September 08 2015 22:05 GMT
#45500
Also Cantwell has come out in support of the Iran deal. Making 42 in the Senate.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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