In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On August 07 2015 12:17 Introvert wrote: Well I for one was entertained, and we'll see how all these predictions turn out. If Trump improves I'll bet the vast majority of that comes from his answer to the bankruptcy question.
Oh, and reading this thread during and after is always good for a laugh as well LOL. I love watching liberals evaluate people they ideologically disagree with or straight up despise. Always amusing.
As amused as us 'liberals' were by how the conservatives talked about the people on the other side of the political spectrum that they disagree with? :D Nah, as I said before some of the candidates are fine while some aren't, but all of them have to drive at this narrative against everything Clinton/Obama/Progressive to get support from the base. But then again both sides do it, it is sad that politics in our country (and many others it seems) so often devolves into the two sides just trash talking each other and blaming everything on each other when they are both to blame. I just tend to think that in recent years the crazy on the right has been much louder and more relevant than the crazy on the left.
Huh? I wasn't condemning anyone. Laugh all you want! I won't watch the Democrat debate because it will probably be as boring as could be. But if it would be half as entertaining as this one, I would watch it.
But I personally find all this "analysis" incredibly funny. Echo-chamber political experts are always good for a laugh.
And attacking the opposition or what you see as a bad presidency makes sense. If the opposition has failures, go after them. Politics has always been dirty and has always focused a lot on those who oppose you.
That's great. You must not be paying much attention. Hillary is desperately trying not to debate. It's going to be straight fireworks.
On August 07 2015 12:17 Introvert wrote: Well I for one was entertained, and we'll see how all these predictions turn out. If Trump improves I'll bet the vast majority of that comes from his answer to the bankruptcy question.
Oh, and reading this thread during and after is always good for a laugh as well LOL. I love watching liberals evaluate people they ideologically disagree with or straight up despise. Always amusing.
As amused as us 'liberals' were by how the conservatives talked about the people on the other side of the political spectrum that they disagree with? :D Nah, as I said before some of the candidates are fine while some aren't, but all of them have to drive at this narrative against everything Clinton/Obama/Progressive to get support from the base. But then again both sides do it, it is sad that politics in our country (and many others it seems) so often devolves into the two sides just trash talking each other and blaming everything on each other when they are both to blame. I just tend to think that in recent years the crazy on the right has been much louder and more relevant than the crazy on the left.
Huh? I wasn't condemning anyone. Laugh all you want! I won't watch the Democrat debate because it will probably be as boring as could be. But if it would be half as entertaining as this one, I would watch it.
But I personally find all this "analysis" incredibly funny. Echo-chamber political experts are always good for a laugh.
And attacking the opposition or what you see as a bad presidency makes sense. If the opposition has failures, go after them. Politics has always been dirty and has always focused a lot on those who oppose you.
This whole planned parenthood thing has been pretty ridiculous from the start. Republicans might of had an issue if they didn't go full stupid with it.
I don't think so. I think planned parenthood and gay marriage are two issues where that ship has sailed. I don't think being against either of those things is viable on a national stage.
Abortion as an issue is nearly split down the middle in this country (in the general sense). Once you get into more specifics, the Democrats are generally on the more extreme side with nearly 80% of the country against abortions after 20 weeks. If you think that's a winning issue, be my guest. The trend is also going more in my direction than it is the abortion direction. I can't believe how many people so vociferously support PP - one of the most heinous eugenic organizations in this country. Lauding Margaret Sanger should be a pendant worn only around the most vile, not be a rallying cry for anything. The killing of vast amounts of the poor and minorities (which are and were the whole point to PP - go read The Pivot of Civilization), is a huge tragedy.
People also need to stop conflating reproductive health, birth control, maternal care, and other OB-GYN issues with abortion. If anything is ill-funded in this country, and made ridiculously more difficult than it should be is adoption.
I'm sorry, but this is just fucking insanity. The supreme bullshit by the right to say this is a moral issue, and then proceed to demand PP be defunded is completely foolish. Because if it was a moral issue as you claim, you would also realize that shutting down PP would cause more abortions when poor women lose access to healthcare or men can no longer have a vasectomy performed there. The right doesn't care about morality... they care about money. And nothing else... get real- it's the right conflating these issues.
On August 07 2015 12:40 Mohdoo wrote: Is it just me, or has the GOP gone way more right wing than 2012? We're so far from the actual election and planned parenthood is already a test of who hates it most. So bizarre.
The amount of insane unworkable flat taxes system that was talked about is absolutely ham. Wasn't there a mention of abolishing progressive taxation and using "tithing" instead? It's batshit crazy. Like these people don't understand the implications of a flat tax whatsoever. It's beyond just "right wing" and well into the land of idiocy in some cases.
On August 07 2015 12:40 GreenHorizons wrote: According to Fox (Focus group) Huckabee and Cruz allegedly are the big winners.... Conservatives did we miss that?
On August 07 2015 12:17 Introvert wrote: Well I for one was entertained, and we'll see how all these predictions turn out. If Trump improves I'll bet the vast majority of that comes from his answer to the bankruptcy question.
Oh, and reading this thread during and after is always good for a laugh as well LOL. I love watching liberals evaluate people they ideologically disagree with or straight up despise. Always amusing.
As amused as us 'liberals' were by how the conservatives talked about the people on the other side of the political spectrum that they disagree with? :D Nah, as I said before some of the candidates are fine while some aren't, but all of them have to drive at this narrative against everything Clinton/Obama/Progressive to get support from the base. But then again both sides do it, it is sad that politics in our country (and many others it seems) so often devolves into the two sides just trash talking each other and blaming everything on each other when they are both to blame. I just tend to think that in recent years the crazy on the right has been much louder and more relevant than the crazy on the left.
Huh? I wasn't condemning anyone. Laugh all you want! I won't watch the Democrat debate because it will probably be as boring as could be. But if it would be half as entertaining as this one, I would watch it.
But I personally find all this "analysis" incredibly funny. Echo-chamber political experts are always good for a laugh.
And attacking the opposition or what you see as a bad presidency makes sense. If the opposition has failures, go after them. Politics has always been dirty and has always focused a lot on those who oppose you.
That's great. You must not be paying much attention. Hillary is desperately trying not to debate. It's going to be straight fireworks.
Yeah. Ted Cruz, who said our government should be more like the Egyptian military dictatorship.
This whole planned parenthood thing has been pretty ridiculous from the start. Republicans might of had an issue if they didn't go full stupid with it.
I don't think so. I think planned parenthood and gay marriage are two issues where that ship has sailed. I don't think being against either of those things is viable on a national stage.
Abortion as an issue is nearly split down the middle in this country (in the general sense). Once you get into more specifics, the Democrats are generally on the more extreme side with nearly 80% of the country against abortions after 20 weeks. If you think that's a winning issue, be my guest. The trend is also going more in my direction than it is the abortion direction. I can't believe how many people so vociferously support PP - one of the most heinous eugenic organizations in this country. Lauding Margaret Sanger should be a pendant worn only around the most vile, not be a rallying cry for anything. The killing of vast amounts of the poor and minorities (which are and were the whole point to PP - go read The Pivot of Civilization), is a huge tragedy.
People also need to stop conflating reproductive health, birth control, maternal care, and other OB-GYN issues with abortion. If anything is ill-funded in this country, and made ridiculously more difficult than it should be is adoption.
I'm sorry, but this is just fucking insanity. The supreme bullshit by the right to say this is a moral issue, and then proceed to demand PP be defunded is completely foolish. Because if it was a moral issue as you claim, you would also realize that shutting down PP would cause more abortions when poor women lose access to healthcare or men can no longer have a vasectomy performed there. The right doesn't care about morality... they care about money. And nothing else... get real- it's the right conflating these issues.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
It IS a moral issue. And THAT is exactly WHY PP should NOT be defunded! No federal funding goes towards abortions, so that is also a moot point (before it even gets brought up!). As for me personally- it isn't a choice that I would make in my personal life. For those women that must chose it, and those that donate the Stem cell tissue, those are lives not given in vain at least. Many lives have been given for far less/failures of humanity- which we often support and celebrate (i.e.- military service).
Trump's flippant deflection against name-calling women (which he just aimed at Rosie O'Donnell) + the audience's cheering made me incredibly embarrassed for my country.
EDIT: To be clear, so did pretty much everything else that happened too.
This whole planned parenthood thing has been pretty ridiculous from the start. Republicans might of had an issue if they didn't go full stupid with it.
I don't think so. I think planned parenthood and gay marriage are two issues where that ship has sailed. I don't think being against either of those things is viable on a national stage.
Abortion as an issue is nearly split down the middle in this country (in the general sense). Once you get into more specifics, the Democrats are generally on the more extreme side with nearly 80% of the country against abortions after 20 weeks. If you think that's a winning issue, be my guest. The trend is also going more in my direction than it is the abortion direction. I can't believe how many people so vociferously support PP - one of the most heinous eugenic organizations in this country. Lauding Margaret Sanger should be a pendant worn only around the most vile, not be a rallying cry for anything. The killing of vast amounts of the poor and minorities (which are and were the whole point to PP - go read The Pivot of Civilization), is a huge tragedy.
People also need to stop conflating reproductive health, birth control, maternal care, and other OB-GYN issues with abortion. If anything is ill-funded in this country, and made ridiculously more difficult than it should be is adoption.
I'm sorry, but this is just fucking insanity. The supreme bullshit by the right to say this is a moral issue, and then proceed to demand PP be defunded is completely foolish. Because if it was a moral issue as you claim, you would also realize that shutting down PP would cause more abortions when poor women lose access to healthcare or men can no longer have a vasectomy performed there. The right doesn't care about morality... they care about money. And nothing else... get real- it's the right conflating these issues.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
See you confuse things here. Planned Parenthood is healthcare for vulnerable women, cancer screenings, std screenings, post natal care including birth, ovarian, uterine cancer, pap smears, etc.
When I see people saying "planned parenthood should definitely be defunded", all I can think is someone hasn't done their homework. Do you know the implications of pulling money away from PP, an institution which is only 3% abortions and 97% other shit?
The implications are heavy, especially in your great motherland where infantile mortality and maternal(?) mortality are super high by the standards of the rest of the 1st world.
As much as I'm willing to agree that abortion is a moral debate to be had, "planned parenthood should definitely defunded" is a statement so absurd I don't think anyone who says that has the capability to actually make a good case against abortions in a country which already doesn't take care of young poor women. To make it worse, you people want to prevent mothers from aborting WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY TAKING RESOURCES AWAY FROM POOR MOTHERS.
Do you not see this? It's been mentioned before. It's not a detail here. It's a big fucking deal. Every other rich country sees the value of promoting life, not through preventing abortions at the doctor's office, but by ensuring that a mother who chooses to have a child will not be completely fucked like she might be in the US. That's the fundamental problem with republicans and the abortion debate. You're against murder and abortions, but once the baby's born, he and his mother can go fuck themselves.
The pregnancy must not be terminated, the pregnancy must be saved at all costs, the baby's life is the most precious thing ever, but once it's born if the mother cannot afford healthcare, then the baby's life is not very precious anymore, and a working class baby is much more likely to die than a middle class baby, but that's not a concern because we prevented an abortion . Yay. It's weird how life is only sacred when it's cheap. It almost seems like it's not a moral issue when you put it like that. Because if it really was a moral issue you wouldn't let all those newborn babies kick the bucket because socialist healthcare is too expensive.
This whole planned parenthood thing has been pretty ridiculous from the start. Republicans might of had an issue if they didn't go full stupid with it.
I don't think so. I think planned parenthood and gay marriage are two issues where that ship has sailed. I don't think being against either of those things is viable on a national stage.
Abortion as an issue is nearly split down the middle in this country (in the general sense). Once you get into more specifics, the Democrats are generally on the more extreme side with nearly 80% of the country against abortions after 20 weeks. If you think that's a winning issue, be my guest. The trend is also going more in my direction than it is the abortion direction. I can't believe how many people so vociferously support PP - one of the most heinous eugenic organizations in this country. Lauding Margaret Sanger should be a pendant worn only around the most vile, not be a rallying cry for anything. The killing of vast amounts of the poor and minorities (which are and were the whole point to PP - go read The Pivot of Civilization), is a huge tragedy.
People also need to stop conflating reproductive health, birth control, maternal care, and other OB-GYN issues with abortion. If anything is ill-funded in this country, and made ridiculously more difficult than it should be is adoption.
I'm sorry, but this is just fucking insanity. The supreme bullshit by the right to say this is a moral issue, and then proceed to demand PP be defunded is completely foolish. Because if it was a moral issue as you claim, you would also realize that shutting down PP would cause more abortions when poor women lose access to healthcare or men can no longer have a vasectomy performed there. The right doesn't care about morality... they care about money. And nothing else... get real- it's the right conflating these issues.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
See you confuse things here. Planned Parenthood is healthcare for vulnerable women, cancer screenings, std screenings, post natal care including birth, ovarian, uterine cancer, pap smears, etc.
When I see people saying "planned parenthood should definitely be defunded", all I can think is someone hasn't done their homework. Do you know the implications of pulling money away from PP, an institution which is only 3% abortions and 97% other shit?
100% agree with you; it's really obnoxious when people make sweeping generalizations about groups whose primary focus isn't even the "controversial" issue. It's like saying no one should be a doctor because a tiny number of doctors perform abortions.
If you don't think funding to PP is funding for abortions your are stupid, or a liar. It's fine to defend said funding, but you need to defend it with intellectual honesty.
This whole planned parenthood thing has been pretty ridiculous from the start. Republicans might of had an issue if they didn't go full stupid with it.
I don't think so. I think planned parenthood and gay marriage are two issues where that ship has sailed. I don't think being against either of those things is viable on a national stage.
Abortion as an issue is nearly split down the middle in this country (in the general sense). Once you get into more specifics, the Democrats are generally on the more extreme side with nearly 80% of the country against abortions after 20 weeks. If you think that's a winning issue, be my guest. The trend is also going more in my direction than it is the abortion direction. I can't believe how many people so vociferously support PP - one of the most heinous eugenic organizations in this country. Lauding Margaret Sanger should be a pendant worn only around the most vile, not be a rallying cry for anything. The killing of vast amounts of the poor and minorities (which are and were the whole point to PP - go read The Pivot of Civilization), is a huge tragedy.
People also need to stop conflating reproductive health, birth control, maternal care, and other OB-GYN issues with abortion. If anything is ill-funded in this country, and made ridiculously more difficult than it should be is adoption.
I'm sorry, but this is just fucking insanity. The supreme bullshit by the right to say this is a moral issue, and then proceed to demand PP be defunded is completely foolish. Because if it was a moral issue as you claim, you would also realize that shutting down PP would cause more abortions when poor women lose access to healthcare or men can no longer have a vasectomy performed there. The right doesn't care about morality... they care about money. And nothing else... get real- it's the right conflating these issues.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
See you confuse things here. Planned Parenthood is healthcare for vulnerable women, cancer screenings, std screenings, post natal care including birth, ovarian, uterine cancer, pap smears, etc.
When I see people saying "planned parenthood should definitely be defunded", all I can think is someone hasn't done their homework. Do you know the implications of pulling money away from PP, an institution which is only 3% abortions and 97% other shit?
100% agree with you; it's really obnoxious when people make sweeping generalizations about groups whose primary focus isn't even the "controversial" issue. It's like saying no one should be a doctor because a tiny number of doctors perform abortions.
Don't give them any ideas. It's only a matter of time before those liberal doctors start agreeing that pollution is having disproportionately negative consequences.
On August 07 2015 12:58 cLutZ wrote: If you don't think funding to PP is funding for abortions your are stupid, or a liar. It's fine to defend said funding, but you need to defend it with intellectual honesty.
It's against the law even! Ever heard of the Hyde amendment? WTF being stupid???
O boy, seems videos of the full debate are being immediately taken down on youtube. Will have to wait till Fox decides to post it in full I guess, which they might not do till later since they rerun it on their cable network in an hour or so =[.
On August 07 2015 12:58 cLutZ wrote: If you don't think funding to PP is funding for abortions your are stupid, or a liar. It's fine to defend said funding, but you need to defend it with intellectual honesty.
Gov. Bobby Jindal on Monday ended the state’s nearly $300,000 contract with Planned Parenthood, saying the organization is not worthy of getting public assistance from the state.
Jindal cited undercover videos that allegedly depict the selling of fetal body parts at some facilities outside Louisiana.
...
Louisiana has two Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast facilities — one in Baton Rouge and the other in New Orleans. Neither perform abortion services.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
It IS a moral issue. And THAT is exactly WHY PP should NOT be defunded! No federal funding goes towards abortions, so that is also a moot point (before it even gets brought up!). As for me personally- it isn't a choice that I would make in my personal life. For those women that must chose it, and those that donate the Stem cell tissue, those are lives not given in vain at least. Many lives have been given for far less/failures of humanity- which we often support and celebrate (i.e.- military service).
I wouldn't call it a moot point. Supporting a organization that kills babies even if it is not directly used for abortion is still a valid issue. Personally, I wouldn't trust such an organization. The military service analogy falls short in the respect that they chose to serve where the baby does not chose.
Many people still view fetuses as human, thus it becomes a tremendous moral issue with the murder of millions of lives taken place. Moral issues typically transcend governmental laws in importance.
On August 07 2015 12:58 cLutZ wrote: If you don't think funding to PP is funding for abortions your are stupid, or a liar. It's fine to defend said funding, but you need to defend it with intellectual honesty.
It's against the law even! Ever heard of the Hyde amendment? WTF being stupid???
No you are, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of money. Let's say that have $100 pre government money to perform all their services and $125. There is no way to ensure that part of the initial $100 was not redirected to abortions because the extra was earmarked for other things.
So. Stupid, or a liar?
Edit, by the way, this outlook is supreme Court precedent with regards to first amendment establishment clause questions.
Abortion is murder based on someone's age so it definitely is a moral issue. Planned Parenthood should definitely be defunded.
It IS a moral issue. And THAT is exactly WHY PP should NOT be defunded! No federal funding goes towards abortions, so that is also a moot point (before it even gets brought up!). As for me personally- it isn't a choice that I would make in my personal life. For those women that must chose it, and those that donate the Stem cell tissue, those are lives not given in vain at least. Many lives have been given for far less/failures of humanity- which we often support and celebrate (i.e.- military service).
I wouldn't call it a moot point. Supporting a organization that kills babies even if
please please please please please don't strawman the issue of abortion. Fetuses aren't babies. A baby is already born. No one is supporting organizations that kill *fourth* trimester pregnancies, if you get my drift. This is not about post-birth killings.
People always get all bent out of shape about these moral issues and abortion is no exception. I can just say that I tend to be pro choice because when it comes down to it someone somewhere down the line has to be able to make the decision one way or the other (yes there can be limits or exceptions an all that, my point is just that on some basic level at some point in the process a choice has to be made), and to me that choice should be left to the mother in most instances (again we can argue that the biological father has some say and in issues where the mother isn't of sound mind, but again I'm speaking generally). I do not think it is appropriate for the government to say that no abortion can be performed ever. Most people are uneasy with and don't like abortions, myself included. But we don't live in an ideal world where no abortions should ever need to be performed or where an abortion is never a valid option or at least one that should be considered. Point is we don't live in an ideal world and in some instances an abortion is warranted or should be left open as a possibility. Some people just go full retard when discussing such issues which inflames both sides.
EPT
. Yay. It's weird how life is only sacred when it's cheap. It almost seems like it's not a moral issue when you put it like that. Because if it really was a moral issue you wouldn't let all those newborn babies kick the bucket because socialist healthcare is too expensive.
