In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On July 31 2015 02:39 ticklishmusic wrote: Oh Jesus.
Maybe the FBI and ATF are organizations who you don't hear about when they do their jobs properly? Like, we never congratulate the FDA for a job well done when they inspect our food, get rid of bad meat, etc. but when there's a salmonella outbreak they're all over the news. It seems that "no news is good news" is a much likely explanation than federal agencies with billions in funding and thousands of employees have been fucking up in lockstep for several decades.
Amusingly, my friend works for the FDA. Good news in his eyes are when they reject something so horrifying, I don't want to hear about it.
On July 31 2015 02:39 ticklishmusic wrote: Oh Jesus.
Maybe the FBI and ATF are organizations who you don't hear about when they do their jobs properly? Like, we never congratulate the FDA for a job well done when they inspect our food, get rid of bad meat, etc. but when there's a salmonella outbreak they're all over the news.
Except we do congratulate them because they're the ones who deal with the outbreak.
And we do hear about the FBI busting big crime rings.
Except they work in conjunction with other agencies who preform the arrests, who would take the credit and be featured in the headlines. Your metric for success is if news agencies report on it and those reports appear on google. I am in awe we have to explain to you that doesn't prove anything.
The ATF is a bad idea for an organization, on principle. Its basically a special interest group, that also happens to be law enforcement, so they hype up the "dangers" of the relatively small sphere of things they are in charge of regulating. In the case that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms do not justify their personnel (aka, now) they just go around fabricating threats.
On July 30 2015 16:38 GreenHorizons wrote: I won't bloviate on it but I went to a Sanders meetup people and it was awesome. I heard 3 million people watched on his official stream did anyone catch that number?
Beyond the hype the momentum is real...
Bernie and Carson were the only candidates with net positive favorability ratings and both Bernie and Hillary are beating every republican in heads up races (Bernie is within the margin of error).
No joke, Trump is leading all the other Republicans in Hispanic support too lol.
For context, 3M would be more than: 1. The largest gathering of people ever (with the exception of the Hajj) 2. About 20-30x the average viewership of League of Legends of Twitch 3. More than most weeknight television
Just a quick sanity check of numbers. 100k is a great number, let's see some growth as we go from pre-campaign to actual campaign.
Yeah 100k was just the meetups, there were lots of people watching the stream from around the country and world. 3m did sound high so I was hoping someone watched it live and caught a cap of the viewer counter.
On the perspective side Hillary had about 6-700 meetups for her kickoff a little over a month ago. Bernie Sanders had over 3,000
I was just thinking about SCOTUS appointments and was wondering which would make more peoples heads explode. Sanders nominating Obama to the Supreme Court or Trump putting up his lawyer.
On July 31 2015 02:39 ticklishmusic wrote: Oh Jesus.
Maybe the FBI and ATF are organizations who you don't hear about when they do their jobs properly? Like, we never congratulate the FDA for a job well done when they inspect our food, get rid of bad meat, etc. but when there's a salmonella outbreak they're all over the news.
Except we do congratulate them because they're the ones who deal with the outbreak.
And we do hear about the FBI busting big crime rings.
Except they work in conjunction with other agencies who preform the arrests, who would take the credit and be featured in the headlines. Your metric for success is if news agencies report on it and those reports appear on google. I am in awe we have to explain to you that doesn't prove anything.
Ok. What evidence do you have that the ATF is doing a good job? I've provided many cases of them being horrible.
A Shell Oil icebreaker vessel has retreated after a showdown with environmental activists dangling by ropes from the tallest bridge in Portland, Oregon.
Environmental activists on St. Johns Bridge and kayakers on the water below had been blocking the icebreaker from heading to the Arctic for a drill operation.
The icebreaker Fennica arrived in Portland for repairs last week. The vessel was damaged earlier this month in the Aleutian Islands when it struck an underwater obstruction, tearing a gash in its hull.
It started its journey to the Arctic early Thursday before stalling in the face of 13 dangling activists linked by ropes. It then turned around and inched its way back to Vigor Industrial's dry dock, delighting those gathered on shore in the city known for environmentalism.
"I think it's inspirational," Portland resident Lisa Szot told The Oregonian. "It's a really beautiful protest."
The U.S. Coast Guard warned the danglers they were breaking the law, but it did not take action. Petty Officer 1st Class George Degener said the agency did not tell those aboard the icebreaker to turn around.
"I don't know what led the master and the pilot on board to come to that decision," he said.
The icebreaker is a key part of Shell's exploration and spill-response plan off Alaska's northwest coast. It protects Shell's fleet from ice and carries equipment that can stop gushing oil.
Environmentalists hope to delay the ship long enough for winter weather to prevent Shell from drilling until 2016. By that time, they hope President Barack Obama’s administration has a change of heart on the issue.
On July 31 2015 02:39 ticklishmusic wrote: Oh Jesus.
Maybe the FBI and ATF are organizations who you don't hear about when they do their jobs properly? Like, we never congratulate the FDA for a job well done when they inspect our food, get rid of bad meat, etc. but when there's a salmonella outbreak they're all over the news.
Except we do congratulate them because they're the ones who deal with the outbreak.
And we do hear about the FBI busting big crime rings.
Except they work in conjunction with other agencies who preform the arrests, who would take the credit and be featured in the headlines. Your metric for success is if news agencies report on it and those reports appear on google. I am in awe we have to explain to you that doesn't prove anything.
Ok. What evidence do you have that the ATF is doing a good job? I've provided many cases of them being horrible.
Assisted in the arrest of a convinced drug dealer buying illegal fire arms through a straw purchase. It really doesn't take much effort to see they do provide assistance to law enforcement. And if you look into 30 years of law enforcement any agency, you will find failed cases and problems. I am not saying they are perfect, but they are not better or worse than the FBI.
A Shell Oil icebreaker vessel has retreated after a showdown with environmental activists dangling by ropes from the tallest bridge in Portland, Oregon.
Environmental activists on St. Johns Bridge and kayakers on the water below had been blocking the icebreaker from heading to the Arctic for a drill operation.
The icebreaker Fennica arrived in Portland for repairs last week. The vessel was damaged earlier this month in the Aleutian Islands when it struck an underwater obstruction, tearing a gash in its hull.
It started its journey to the Arctic early Thursday before stalling in the face of 13 dangling activists linked by ropes. It then turned around and inched its way back to Vigor Industrial's dry dock, delighting those gathered on shore in the city known for environmentalism.
"I think it's inspirational," Portland resident Lisa Szot told The Oregonian. "It's a really beautiful protest."
The U.S. Coast Guard warned the danglers they were breaking the law, but it did not take action. Petty Officer 1st Class George Degener said the agency did not tell those aboard the icebreaker to turn around.
"I don't know what led the master and the pilot on board to come to that decision," he said.
The icebreaker is a key part of Shell's exploration and spill-response plan off Alaska's northwest coast. It protects Shell's fleet from ice and carries equipment that can stop gushing oil.
Environmentalists hope to delay the ship long enough for winter weather to prevent Shell from drilling until 2016. By that time, they hope President Barack Obama’s administration has a change of heart on the issue.
So if I got this right, the environmentalists managed to stop the ship that will only really be needed if something ELSE in the operation goes catastrophically wrong. /golfclap.
A Shell Oil icebreaker vessel has retreated after a showdown with environmental activists dangling by ropes from the tallest bridge in Portland, Oregon.
Environmental activists on St. Johns Bridge and kayakers on the water below had been blocking the icebreaker from heading to the Arctic for a drill operation.
The icebreaker Fennica arrived in Portland for repairs last week. The vessel was damaged earlier this month in the Aleutian Islands when it struck an underwater obstruction, tearing a gash in its hull.
It started its journey to the Arctic early Thursday before stalling in the face of 13 dangling activists linked by ropes. It then turned around and inched its way back to Vigor Industrial's dry dock, delighting those gathered on shore in the city known for environmentalism.
"I think it's inspirational," Portland resident Lisa Szot told The Oregonian. "It's a really beautiful protest."
The U.S. Coast Guard warned the danglers they were breaking the law, but it did not take action. Petty Officer 1st Class George Degener said the agency did not tell those aboard the icebreaker to turn around.
"I don't know what led the master and the pilot on board to come to that decision," he said.
The icebreaker is a key part of Shell's exploration and spill-response plan off Alaska's northwest coast. It protects Shell's fleet from ice and carries equipment that can stop gushing oil.
Environmentalists hope to delay the ship long enough for winter weather to prevent Shell from drilling until 2016. By that time, they hope President Barack Obama’s administration has a change of heart on the issue.
So if I got this right, the environmentalists managed to stop the ship that will only really be needed if something ELSE in the operation goes catastrophically wrong. /golfclap.
They can't operate without it is the point. So it stops the whole operation.
A Shell Oil icebreaker vessel has retreated after a showdown with environmental activists dangling by ropes from the tallest bridge in Portland, Oregon.
Environmental activists on St. Johns Bridge and kayakers on the water below had been blocking the icebreaker from heading to the Arctic for a drill operation.
The icebreaker Fennica arrived in Portland for repairs last week. The vessel was damaged earlier this month in the Aleutian Islands when it struck an underwater obstruction, tearing a gash in its hull.
It started its journey to the Arctic early Thursday before stalling in the face of 13 dangling activists linked by ropes. It then turned around and inched its way back to Vigor Industrial's dry dock, delighting those gathered on shore in the city known for environmentalism.
"I think it's inspirational," Portland resident Lisa Szot told The Oregonian. "It's a really beautiful protest."
The U.S. Coast Guard warned the danglers they were breaking the law, but it did not take action. Petty Officer 1st Class George Degener said the agency did not tell those aboard the icebreaker to turn around.
"I don't know what led the master and the pilot on board to come to that decision," he said.
The icebreaker is a key part of Shell's exploration and spill-response plan off Alaska's northwest coast. It protects Shell's fleet from ice and carries equipment that can stop gushing oil.
Environmentalists hope to delay the ship long enough for winter weather to prevent Shell from drilling until 2016. By that time, they hope President Barack Obama’s administration has a change of heart on the issue.
So if I got this right, the environmentalists managed to stop the ship that will only really be needed if something ELSE in the operation goes catastrophically wrong. /golfclap.
They can't operate without it is the point. So it stops the whole operation.
Well, that's the theory at least. If they don't have the contingency equipment, then they shouldn't continue with the operation.
A Shell Oil icebreaker vessel has retreated after a showdown with environmental activists dangling by ropes from the tallest bridge in Portland, Oregon.
Environmental activists on St. Johns Bridge and kayakers on the water below had been blocking the icebreaker from heading to the Arctic for a drill operation.
The icebreaker Fennica arrived in Portland for repairs last week. The vessel was damaged earlier this month in the Aleutian Islands when it struck an underwater obstruction, tearing a gash in its hull.
It started its journey to the Arctic early Thursday before stalling in the face of 13 dangling activists linked by ropes. It then turned around and inched its way back to Vigor Industrial's dry dock, delighting those gathered on shore in the city known for environmentalism.
"I think it's inspirational," Portland resident Lisa Szot told The Oregonian. "It's a really beautiful protest."
The U.S. Coast Guard warned the danglers they were breaking the law, but it did not take action. Petty Officer 1st Class George Degener said the agency did not tell those aboard the icebreaker to turn around.
"I don't know what led the master and the pilot on board to come to that decision," he said.
The icebreaker is a key part of Shell's exploration and spill-response plan off Alaska's northwest coast. It protects Shell's fleet from ice and carries equipment that can stop gushing oil.
Environmentalists hope to delay the ship long enough for winter weather to prevent Shell from drilling until 2016. By that time, they hope President Barack Obama’s administration has a change of heart on the issue.
So if I got this right, the environmentalists managed to stop the ship that will only really be needed if something ELSE in the operation goes catastrophically wrong. /golfclap.
They can't operate without it is the point. So it stops the whole operation.
Well, that's the theory at least. If they don't have the contingency equipment, then they shouldn't continue with the operation.
To put a fine point on it, continued operations without it would be illegal.
Oregon residents will be able to buy marijuana for recreational use starting in October, about a year earlier than originally expected, under a new law backers hope will help curb the black market, state officials said on Wednesday.
The law, signed Monday by Democratic Governor Kate Brown, will effectively let adults visit existing medical-use marijuana dispensaries in the state to buy certain strains just to get stoned.
Possessing and growing pot became legal in July after voter approval in a November referendum, and the state expects to start accepting applications in January for recreational pot retail stores likely to open by the fall.
"The bill ... passed with significant bipartisan support in both chambers after a great deal of work by an implementation working group," said Brown's spokeswoman Kristen Grainger.
In November, Oregon and Alaska sanctioned the use of marijuana for recreational purposes in state-regulated schemes that will usher in retail pot shops similar to those already operating in Washington state and Colorado.
The votes reflect the shifting landscape for a substance that remains illegal under federal law.
The new Oregon law lets adults 21 and up buy marijuana for recreational use at medical dispensaries that choose to sell it starting on Oct. 1, said state representative Ann Lininger, a Democrat and sponsor of the bill.
Lininger said early sales will help begin to curb the black market for weed.
Here is a far better explanation of the benefits of hunting than the texts linked yesterday, explained by someone who is anti-hunting, but passionate about lions.
Here is a far better explanation of the benefits of hunting than the texts linked yesterday, explained by someone who is anti-hunting, but passionate about lions.
lol but how will they farm cows for Europeans if tourists can't come kill the wildlife!
Man what it takes to get to this conclusion blows my mind.
Here is a far better explanation of the benefits of hunting than the texts linked yesterday, explained by someone who is anti-hunting, but passionate about lions.
lol but how will they farm cows for Europeans if tourists can't come kill the wildlife!
Man what it takes to get to this conclusion blows my mind.
Way to miss the point. That wasn't the conclusion at all.
Here is a far better explanation of the benefits of hunting than the texts linked yesterday, explained by someone who is anti-hunting, but passionate about lions.
lol but how will they farm cows for Europeans if tourists can't come kill the wildlife!
Man what it takes to get to this conclusion blows my mind.
Way to miss the point. That wasn't the conclusion at all.
No I get it. It's just an amazing way to approach the issue.
EDIT: "Egocentric" would probably be a better word than "amazing"
Here is a far better explanation of the benefits of hunting than the texts linked yesterday, explained by someone who is anti-hunting, but passionate about lions.
lol but how will they farm cows for Europeans if tourists can't come kill the wildlife!
Man what it takes to get to this conclusion blows my mind.
Way to miss the point. That wasn't the conclusion at all.
No I get it. It's just an amazing way to approach the issue.
Look, I agree that allowing hunting is basically making a deal with the devil, and I completely disagree with Wegandi that it's because "capitalism, fuck yeah" is the most optimal solution to all problems, including wildlife conservation. However, there is a massive problem when farmers see their livelihood being eaten by lions (and it really doesn't matter whether they are subsistence farmers, or farmers who are selling their beef to Europe: he went way off message with that to make a cheap emotional point). If we want lions to survive in farmland (and we do), then we need to be willing to recompense the farmers who are having their food eaten by wild animals. The way that works is to allow limited hunting, so that the hunting permits compensate all the farmers for the livestock they lose.
My earlier example of the Pantanal is similar: luckily there ecotourism alone is sufficient to provide the economic boost that allows locals to see the light in protecting, rather than hunting, the jaguars. However, except for a select few areas of Africa, ecotourism is doing squat there. There is also the "problem" that the African savannah is a hell of a lot more fertile than the Pantanal or the Amazon jungle (the Brazilian savannah, called cerrado, has been almost wiped out in favour of soy bean plantations, and nobody is interested in hunting Giant Anteaters or even maned wolves to help "protect" them).
I agree that it would be awesome if BGH would pay the 750,000 USD for a permit to shoot a Lion, travel to Africa, aim at the Lion and yell "bang, I got you", put down their gun, and walk away, saluting the lion on its close call with death. But unfortunately, for reasons I personally cannot comprehend, the people paying the money actually want to kill the animal. And there aren't enough philanthropists to obtain a similar income for the farmers without the hunt.
On July 30 2015 16:38 GreenHorizons wrote: I won't bloviate on it but I went to a Sanders meetup people and it was awesome. I heard 3 million people watched on his official stream did anyone catch that number?
Beyond the hype the momentum is real...
Bernie and Carson were the only candidates with net positive favorability ratings and both Bernie and Hillary are beating every republican in heads up races (Bernie is within the margin of error).
No joke, Trump is leading all the other Republicans in Hispanic support too lol.
For context, 3M would be more than: 1. The largest gathering of people ever (with the exception of the Hajj) 2. About 20-30x the average viewership of League of Legends of Twitch 3. More than most weeknight television
Just a quick sanity check of numbers. 100k is a great number, let's see some growth as we go from pre-campaign to actual campaign.
not to be nitpicky, but I was curious and wikipedia shows quite a lot of gatherings bigger than 3 million - there was one in india with reported 30 million!! Which in indian is apparently called three crore. There's also a planned event with 48 million people later this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_peaceful_gatherings_in_history
It would have tied for biggest US event though, alongside a boston red sox parade!:D
Here is a far better explanation of the benefits of hunting than the texts linked yesterday, explained by someone who is anti-hunting, but passionate about lions.
lol but how will they farm cows for Europeans if tourists can't come kill the wildlife!
Man what it takes to get to this conclusion blows my mind.
Way to miss the point. That wasn't the conclusion at all.
No I get it. It's just an amazing way to approach the issue.
Look, I agree that allowing hunting is basically making a deal with the devil, and I completely disagree with Wegandi that it's because "capitalism, fuck yeah" is the most optimal solution to all problems, including wildlife conservation. However, there is a massive problem when farmers see their livelihood being eaten by lions (and it really doesn't matter whether they are subsistence farmers, or farmers who are selling their beef to Europe: he went way off message with that to make a cheap emotional point). If we want lions to survive in farmland (and we do), then we need to be willing to recompense the farmers who are having their food eaten by wild animals. The way that works is to allow limited hunting, so that the hunting permits compensate all the farmers for the livestock they lose.
My earlier example of the Pantanal is similar: luckily there ecotourism alone is sufficient to provide the economic boost that allows locals to see the light in protecting, rather than hunting, the jaguars. However, except for a select few areas of Africa, ecotourism is doing squat there. There is also the "problem" that the African savannah is a hell of a lot more fertile than the Pantanal or the Amazon jungle (the Brazilian savannah, called cerrado, has been almost wiped out in favour of soy bean plantations, and nobody is interested in hunting Giant Anteaters or even maned wolves to help "protect" them).
I agree that it would be awesome if BGH would pay the 750,000 USD for a permit to shoot a Lion, travel to Africa, aim at the Lion and yell "bang, I got you", put down their gun, and walk away, saluting the lion on its close call with death. But unfortunately, for reasons I personally cannot comprehend, the people paying the money actually want to kill the animal. And there aren't enough philanthropists to obtain a similar income for the farmers without the hunt.
Dealing with it from the perspective of "We are going to ignore how it ended up this f'd in the first place" fine let them hunt, but no projectile weapons, you want to pay $750,000 (not the $50k this idiot did) to kill a lion you better do it on your own merit.
This theoretical BS is so out of hand. Rich Americans/Europeans trophy hunting is not the problem for endangered species. The problem is that their own locals are out of hand and continually poach and the local governments are ineffective at protecting the endangered species. The "capitalist" solution is hardly that, its simply an attempt to get the local governments to actually crack down on poaching by showing them that there is a real incentive to do so.
EPT
