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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On April 29 2015 05:21 Wolfstan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:[quote] in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:[quote] in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. Why the tangent regarding fox news? Are you looking to debate a conservative caricature and talk past the posters in this thread? We seem to have TL wide consensus that individual rioters are bad and a problem. You also have agreement that police having a monopoly on force without effective civilian oversight is a problem. So why have you guys been arguing past each other for 10 pages?
We're talking about the racist coverage of the riots. If you look historically at how right wing outlets talk about riots it's clear that they do it very differently depending on the majority race of the riot.
People claiming the coverage isn't racist can only do so from a place ignorant of the comparison. Their ignorance isn't evidence of them being right, it's evidence they don't know what they are talking about when they say the coverage isn't racist.
There's a reason NO ONE is posting articles/news segments from right wing sources about the riots in Boston. Despite just moments ago being sure the coverage was fair. Seems like their sureness was pulled straight from their ass.
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Here is what the right has to say about Baltimore.
People’s perception of freedom never ceases to amaze me. French revolutionaries sent the ruling class to the guillotine, only to enslave themselves to the class structure of socialism. The Russian Tsars were chased out of their own country so that “freedom fighters” could live under the tyranny of communism. And, after more than a century of civil liberty battles and triumphs, African-Americans are flocking to the party that opposed every measurable civil rights initiative since the Emancipation Proclamation. It should stun historians that the party of the Ku Klux Klan and segregation now has an undeniable stranglehold on black America.
Source
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On April 29 2015 05:30 Jormundr wrote:Here is what the right has to say about Baltimore. Show nested quote +People’s perception of freedom never ceases to amaze me. French revolutionaries sent the ruling class to the guillotine, only to enslave themselves to the class structure of socialism. The Russian Tsars were chased out of their own country so that “freedom fighters” could live under the tyranny of communism. And, after more than a century of civil liberty battles and triumphs, African-Americans are flocking to the party that opposed every measurable civil rights initiative since the Emancipation Proclamation. It should stun historians that the party of the Ku Klux Klan and segregation now has an undeniable stranglehold on black America. Source
Wow, just wow. I like how they left out the American Revolution because it didn't suit their argument.
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On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread
OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/
On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote:
[quote]
and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote:
[quote]
and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it.
I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh:
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72070179/riots1.PNG)
link
Elements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits.
I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair.
Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons.
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On April 29 2015 05:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:21 Wolfstan wrote:On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:[quote] People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:[quote] People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. Why the tangent regarding fox news? Are you looking to debate a conservative caricature and talk past the posters in this thread? We seem to have TL wide consensus that individual rioters are bad and a problem. You also have agreement that police having a monopoly on force without effective civilian oversight is a problem. So why have you guys been arguing past each other for 10 pages? We're talking about the racist coverage of the riots. If you look historically at how right wing outlets talk about riots it's clear that they do it very differently depending on the majority race of the riot. People claiming the coverage isn't racist can only do so from a place ignorant of the comparison. Their ignorance isn't evidence of them being right, it's evidence they don't know what they are talking about when they say the coverage isn't racist. There's a reason NO ONE is posting articles/news segments from right wing sources about the riots in Boston. Despite just moments ago being sure the coverage was fair. Seems like their sureness was pulled straight from their ass.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/29/police-in-riot-gear-arrest-37-people-after-red-sox-sweep-world-series/
http://insider.foxnews.com/2012/02/06/video-riot-erupts-at-umass-amherst-after-new-england-patriots-lose-super-bowl
Seems pretty similar to me. No talk of "Oh but its not all college kids, just some bad apples." They make just as sweeping generalizations with this riot as any other.
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On April 29 2015 05:44 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 05:21 Wolfstan wrote:On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. Why the tangent regarding fox news? Are you looking to debate a conservative caricature and talk past the posters in this thread? We seem to have TL wide consensus that individual rioters are bad and a problem. You also have agreement that police having a monopoly on force without effective civilian oversight is a problem. So why have you guys been arguing past each other for 10 pages? We're talking about the racist coverage of the riots. If you look historically at how right wing outlets talk about riots it's clear that they do it very differently depending on the majority race of the riot. People claiming the coverage isn't racist can only do so from a place ignorant of the comparison. Their ignorance isn't evidence of them being right, it's evidence they don't know what they are talking about when they say the coverage isn't racist. There's a reason NO ONE is posting articles/news segments from right wing sources about the riots in Boston. Despite just moments ago being sure the coverage was fair. Seems like their sureness was pulled straight from their ass. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/29/police-in-riot-gear-arrest-37-people-after-red-sox-sweep-world-series/http://insider.foxnews.com/2012/02/06/video-riot-erupts-at-umass-amherst-after-new-england-patriots-lose-super-bowlSeems pretty similar to me. No talk of "Oh but its not all college kids, just some bad apples." They make just as sweeping generalizations with this riot as any other.
LOL at second link. White kids so "rowdy".
Edit: They are also "rowdy" in the first link.
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You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community."
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On April 29 2015 05:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/ Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:[quote] in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:[quote] in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh: linkElements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits. I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair. Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons.
No one knows what any right wing outlet said about any of the Boston riots yet they want to claim the coverage isn't racist. Again ignorance is not evidence. Finding a random comment section post(I thought we agreed those don't represent anything, maybe that's only when they are used as evidence of prevalent racism...) means approximately squat.
The Baltimore coverage from right wing outlets is undeniably racist. Being ignorant of obvious evidence is not evidence to the contrary. People following the right wing outlets in focusing on the riot with little or no mention of the decades of abuse that preceded it, or the details that matter is acting racist also.
All of which wouldn't be a big deal if the same people didn't refuse to see that's what they were doing. Because it seems that people think doing something racist means "you are a racist" which it doesn't. Behaving in a racist way, being confronted and shown to be committing racist acts, and refusing to admit and amend ones behavior, is what makes someone a racist person.
On April 29 2015 05:44 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 05:21 Wolfstan wrote:On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. Why the tangent regarding fox news? Are you looking to debate a conservative caricature and talk past the posters in this thread? We seem to have TL wide consensus that individual rioters are bad and a problem. You also have agreement that police having a monopoly on force without effective civilian oversight is a problem. So why have you guys been arguing past each other for 10 pages? We're talking about the racist coverage of the riots. If you look historically at how right wing outlets talk about riots it's clear that they do it very differently depending on the majority race of the riot. People claiming the coverage isn't racist can only do so from a place ignorant of the comparison. Their ignorance isn't evidence of them being right, it's evidence they don't know what they are talking about when they say the coverage isn't racist. There's a reason NO ONE is posting articles/news segments from right wing sources about the riots in Boston. Despite just moments ago being sure the coverage was fair. Seems like their sureness was pulled straight from their ass. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/29/police-in-riot-gear-arrest-37-people-after-red-sox-sweep-world-series/http://insider.foxnews.com/2012/02/06/video-riot-erupts-at-umass-amherst-after-new-england-patriots-lose-super-bowlSeems pretty similar to me. No talk of "Oh but its not all college kids, just some bad apples." They make just as sweeping generalizations with this riot as any other.
Holy shit you're trying to be serious with that aren't you? Those were the harshest ones you could find to compare to Baltimore?
One paragraph with a 35 second clip talking about how 'unruly' they were with 0 talk about what that community needs to do to stop the pointless violence and destruction they have had several times just in the last decade.
And one copy and pasted AP article without the word riot even in it (other than "riot gear"). Not once were they called criminals.
Meanwhile if you scroll down on the video page and you will see literally dozens of reports/videos on Baltimore.
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On April 29 2015 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/ On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:[quote] People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:[quote] People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh: linkElements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits. I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair. Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons. No one knows what any right wing outlet said about any of the Boston riots yet they want to claim the coverage isn't racist. Again ignorance is not evidence. Finding a random comment section post(I thought we agreed those don't represent anything, maybe that's only when they are used as evidence of prevalent racism...) means approximately squat. The Baltimore coverage from right wing outlets is undeniably racist. Being ignorant of obvious evidence is not evidence to the contrary. People following the right wing outlets in focusing on the riot with little or no mention of the decades of abuse that preceded it, or the details that matter is acting racist also. All of which wouldn't be a big deal if the same people didn't refuse to see that's what they were doing. Because it seems that people think doing something racist means "you are a racist" which it doesn't. Behaving in a racist way, being confronted and shown to be committing racist acts, and refusing to admit and amend ones behavior, is what makes someone a racist person.
I don't pay attention to right wing outlets, so could you show me?
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On April 29 2015 05:48 Wolfstan wrote:
You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community."
They are being the mouthpiece of fox news, by saying anything other than "how do we fix the problem?"
Sure, Baltimore might have a slight problem with "rowdy" niggas. But that has jack fucking shit to do with why people are on the streets. This latest death has served as the catalyst for a massive outcry against a long standing problem of shit police. Racism plays a major part in it, classism plays a major part in it, and the conservative posters would rather avoid discussing any of that (or try to say it's only one or the other to bait other posters into meaningless argument) and talk about all the crazy black people.
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I mean, the Republican party is so unsexy that no one identifies with it. What we have in this thread is a range of self-identified libertarians who range from incredibly face-palmingly ignorant to "okay we'll agree to disagree".
Also IIRC (feel free to dig out the page to prove me wrong) we did have people trying to defend creationism and global warming (or the lack thereof) in the convoluted ways possible. While political philosophy and such can be argued to a degree, science is harder.
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On April 29 2015 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/ On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:[quote] People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:[quote] People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh: linkElements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits. I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair. Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons. No one knows what any right wing outlet said about any of the Boston riots yet they want to claim the coverage isn't racist. Again ignorance is not evidence. Finding a random comment section post(I thought we agreed those don't represent anything, maybe that's only when they are used as evidence of prevalent racism...) means approximately squat. The Baltimore coverage from right wing outlets is undeniably racist. Being ignorant of obvious evidence is not evidence to the contrary. People following the right wing outlets in focusing on the riot with little or no mention of the decades of abuse that preceded it, or the details that matter is acting racist also. All of which wouldn't be a big deal if the same people didn't refuse to see that's what they were doing. Because it seems that people think doing something racist means "you are a racist" which it doesn't. Behaving in a racist way, being confronted and shown to be committing racist acts, and refusing to admit and amend ones behavior, is what makes someone a racist person.
So now ALL the media coverage is racist because apparently the right wing media coverage is racist (mind you I don't watch Fox). Whoever it was that wanted to talk about false equivalences, this is your moment to shine...
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On April 29 2015 05:55 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:48 Wolfstan wrote:
You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community." They are being the mouthpiece of fox news, by saying anything other than "how do we fix the problem?" Sure, Baltimore might have a slight problem with "rowdy" niggas. But that has jack fucking shit to do with why people are on the streets. This latest death has served as the catalyst for a massive outcry against a long standing problem of shit police. Racism plays a major part in it, classism plays a major part in it, and the conservative posters would rather avoid discussing any of that (or try to say it's only one or the other to bait other posters into meaningless argument) and talk about all the crazy black people.
But "rowdy niggas" are the reason there's a stereotype to begin with. People don't have implicit biases for no reason. They are taught. When some huge majority of the violent criminals a cop arrests are black, it's basically impossible for that cop to not be more on-edge when dealing with a black suspect than a white one. All the evidence he's seen personally says that black suspects are more likely to be combative.
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On April 29 2015 06:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:55 Jormundr wrote:On April 29 2015 05:48 Wolfstan wrote:
You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community." They are being the mouthpiece of fox news, by saying anything other than "how do we fix the problem?" Sure, Baltimore might have a slight problem with "rowdy" niggas. But that has jack fucking shit to do with why people are on the streets. This latest death has served as the catalyst for a massive outcry against a long standing problem of shit police. Racism plays a major part in it, classism plays a major part in it, and the conservative posters would rather avoid discussing any of that (or try to say it's only one or the other to bait other posters into meaningless argument) and talk about all the crazy black people. But "rowdy niggas" are the reason there's a stereotype to begin with. People don't have implicit biases for no reason. They are taught. When some huge majority of the violent criminals a cop arrests are black, it's basically impossible for that cop to not be more on-edge when dealing with a black suspect than a white one. All the evidence he's seen personally says that black suspects are more likely to be combative.
In short, passive, institutionalized racism is caused by black people behaving poorly. They force people to think like that.
But if you look at it another way, black people assuming white people are racist is the fault of white people who are racist.
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On April 29 2015 06:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:55 Jormundr wrote:On April 29 2015 05:48 Wolfstan wrote:
You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community." They are being the mouthpiece of fox news, by saying anything other than "how do we fix the problem?" Sure, Baltimore might have a slight problem with "rowdy" niggas. But that has jack fucking shit to do with why people are on the streets. This latest death has served as the catalyst for a massive outcry against a long standing problem of shit police. Racism plays a major part in it, classism plays a major part in it, and the conservative posters would rather avoid discussing any of that (or try to say it's only one or the other to bait other posters into meaningless argument) and talk about all the crazy black people. But "rowdy niggas" are the reason there's a stereotype to begin with. People don't have implicit biases for no reason. They are taught. When some huge majority of the violent criminals a cop arrests are black, it's basically impossible for that cop to not be more on-edge when dealing with a black suspect than a white one. All the evidence he's seen personally says that black suspects are more likely to be combative.
And in despite of all this, race was a far lesser predictor of violent outcomes than social class when it came to police encounters (Source)
In fact a major review from 2010 found 4 studies linking violent outcomes of police encounters with race of the suspect, whilst it found 8 studies showing no association and 7 showing mixed association. (Source)
Perhaps GH would take a minute from his diatribe and explain how this data is concurrent with his tale that police is obviously acting racially motivated and not socially so.
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On April 29 2015 05:59 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 05:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/ On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh: linkElements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits. I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair. Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons. No one knows what any right wing outlet said about any of the Boston riots yet they want to claim the coverage isn't racist. Again ignorance is not evidence. Finding a random comment section post(I thought we agreed those don't represent anything, maybe that's only when they are used as evidence of prevalent racism...) means approximately squat. The Baltimore coverage from right wing outlets is undeniably racist. Being ignorant of obvious evidence is not evidence to the contrary. People following the right wing outlets in focusing on the riot with little or no mention of the decades of abuse that preceded it, or the details that matter is acting racist also. All of which wouldn't be a big deal if the same people didn't refuse to see that's what they were doing. Because it seems that people think doing something racist means "you are a racist" which it doesn't. Behaving in a racist way, being confronted and shown to be committing racist acts, and refusing to admit and amend ones behavior, is what makes someone a racist person. So now ALL the media coverage is racist because apparently the right wing media coverage is racist (mind you I don't watch Fox). Whoever it was that wanted to talk about false equivalences, this is your moment to shine...
What are you talking about?
The right wing media coverage is racist, not "apparently". Your continued skepticism, is evidence of your own racism.
On April 29 2015 06:09 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:00 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 05:55 Jormundr wrote:On April 29 2015 05:48 Wolfstan wrote:
You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community." They are being the mouthpiece of fox news, by saying anything other than "how do we fix the problem?" Sure, Baltimore might have a slight problem with "rowdy" niggas. But that has jack fucking shit to do with why people are on the streets. This latest death has served as the catalyst for a massive outcry against a long standing problem of shit police. Racism plays a major part in it, classism plays a major part in it, and the conservative posters would rather avoid discussing any of that (or try to say it's only one or the other to bait other posters into meaningless argument) and talk about all the crazy black people. But "rowdy niggas" are the reason there's a stereotype to begin with. People don't have implicit biases for no reason. They are taught. When some huge majority of the violent criminals a cop arrests are black, it's basically impossible for that cop to not be more on-edge when dealing with a black suspect than a white one. All the evidence he's seen personally says that black suspects are more likely to be combative. And in despite of all this, race was a far lesser predictor of violent outcomes than social class when it came to police encounters ( Source) In fact a major review from 2010 found 4 studies linking violent outcomes of police encounters with race of the suspect, whilst it found 8 studies showing no association and 7 showing mixed association. ( Source) Perhaps GH would take a minute from his diatribe and explain how this data is concurrent with his tale that police is obviously acting racially motivated and not socially so.
Did you bother to look at how they gathered their data?
On April 29 2015 06:18 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 05:59 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 05:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/ On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:
[quote]
yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:[quote] You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh: linkElements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits. I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair. Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons. No one knows what any right wing outlet said about any of the Boston riots yet they want to claim the coverage isn't racist. Again ignorance is not evidence. Finding a random comment section post(I thought we agreed those don't represent anything, maybe that's only when they are used as evidence of prevalent racism...) means approximately squat. The Baltimore coverage from right wing outlets is undeniably racist. Being ignorant of obvious evidence is not evidence to the contrary. People following the right wing outlets in focusing on the riot with little or no mention of the decades of abuse that preceded it, or the details that matter is acting racist also. All of which wouldn't be a big deal if the same people didn't refuse to see that's what they were doing. Because it seems that people think doing something racist means "you are a racist" which it doesn't. Behaving in a racist way, being confronted and shown to be committing racist acts, and refusing to admit and amend ones behavior, is what makes someone a racist person. So now ALL the media coverage is racist because apparently the right wing media coverage is racist (mind you I don't watch Fox). Whoever it was that wanted to talk about false equivalences, this is your moment to shine... What are you talking about? The right wing media coverage is racist, not "apparently". Your continued skepticism, is evidence of your own racism. Good thing you went for the ad hominem instead of actually answering the critique leveled against your argument. 10/10 arguing. Could it be that I wrote that "apparently" because I'm taking your word for it?
So you agree that the coverage by right wing outlets has been racist?
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On April 29 2015 06:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:59 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 05:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 05:00 oneofthem wrote:
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread OK, but I was responding to your comment that cited a news story :/ On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting.
[quote] yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting.
[quote] You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it. I know less about Boston, but when UMass rioted the surrounding communities viewed it very negatively. Some people were level-headed, but some criticisms were quite harsh: linkElements such as student culture and social behavior were not off limits for discussion either. You could argue that some of the criticism was unfair, because about half involved were outsiders, but the student population was still asked to engage in introspection, accept security changes and new limits. I'd expect similar for any other population engaging in riots. I've missed a lot of the conversation here so I don't know if posters have been more critical of Baltimore's population than that. If so, that's unfair. Not sure what Fox reported for either UMass or Baltimore. Baltimore seems to have been a larger story nationally for a variety of reasons. No one knows what any right wing outlet said about any of the Boston riots yet they want to claim the coverage isn't racist. Again ignorance is not evidence. Finding a random comment section post(I thought we agreed those don't represent anything, maybe that's only when they are used as evidence of prevalent racism...) means approximately squat. The Baltimore coverage from right wing outlets is undeniably racist. Being ignorant of obvious evidence is not evidence to the contrary. People following the right wing outlets in focusing on the riot with little or no mention of the decades of abuse that preceded it, or the details that matter is acting racist also. All of which wouldn't be a big deal if the same people didn't refuse to see that's what they were doing. Because it seems that people think doing something racist means "you are a racist" which it doesn't. Behaving in a racist way, being confronted and shown to be committing racist acts, and refusing to admit and amend ones behavior, is what makes someone a racist person. So now ALL the media coverage is racist because apparently the right wing media coverage is racist (mind you I don't watch Fox). Whoever it was that wanted to talk about false equivalences, this is your moment to shine... What are you talking about? The right wing media coverage is racist, not "apparently". Your continued skepticism, is evidence of your own racism.
Good thing you went for the ad hominem instead of actually answering the critique leveled against your argument. 10/10 arguing. Could it be that I wrote that "apparently" because I'm taking your word for it?
On April 29 2015 06:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:09 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:00 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 05:55 Jormundr wrote:On April 29 2015 05:48 Wolfstan wrote:
You had gotten much better at realizing that the right wing posters in this thread are not mouthpieces for fox news over the last 6 months. I remember you wanting to pick fights with young earth creationists for months until you got the clue that they dont exist in this thread. The reason people don't source fox is because we dont watch it, you seem to be the most consistent consumer of right wing media in this thread.
The juiciest irony is you asking the sky, where are the conservative leaders? Like they are the patron saints of right leaning individuals or something. But you will scream racism when these idiot commentators decry the lack of action from the leaders of the "Black community." They are being the mouthpiece of fox news, by saying anything other than "how do we fix the problem?" Sure, Baltimore might have a slight problem with "rowdy" niggas. But that has jack fucking shit to do with why people are on the streets. This latest death has served as the catalyst for a massive outcry against a long standing problem of shit police. Racism plays a major part in it, classism plays a major part in it, and the conservative posters would rather avoid discussing any of that (or try to say it's only one or the other to bait other posters into meaningless argument) and talk about all the crazy black people. But "rowdy niggas" are the reason there's a stereotype to begin with. People don't have implicit biases for no reason. They are taught. When some huge majority of the violent criminals a cop arrests are black, it's basically impossible for that cop to not be more on-edge when dealing with a black suspect than a white one. All the evidence he's seen personally says that black suspects are more likely to be combative. And in despite of all this, race was a far lesser predictor of violent outcomes than social class when it came to police encounters ( Source) In fact a major review from 2010 found 4 studies linking violent outcomes of police encounters with race of the suspect, whilst it found 8 studies showing no association and 7 showing mixed association. ( Source) Perhaps GH would take a minute from his diatribe and explain how this data is concurrent with his tale that police is obviously acting racially motivated and not socially so. Did you bother to look at how they gathered their data?
Do you have any better data?
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Even Millitron imo the most right leaning poster in this thread agrees police need body cameras, separated internal affairs, failed war on drugs among other civilian oversight. That's hardly "how do we fix this problem", I find the left posts more "slavery resulted in huge systemic issues" comments then any Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Realistic or Deadlineable solutions.
You will (and GH has) find better results framing the debate as a constitutional violation than a systemic racism issue.
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GH, I'm gonna ignore all accusation of racism you level, because you throw it around WAY too freely and unjustifiably.
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On April 29 2015 06:19 zlefin wrote:
GH, I'm gonna ignore all accusation of racism you level, because you throw it around WAY too freely and unjustifiably.
Do what you want but I'm done not calling racism racism because people here don't know what racism is.
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EPT
