EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1894
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23635 Posts
On April 29 2015 01:52 travis wrote: yeah but the trend i notice time and time again is "guilty of that mindset until proven innocent, simply because you are white". and that trend proved itself again in this thread. The trend I notice every time is people saying racist things and then getting indignant about someone calling them on it. They ignore pleas for help with peoples constitutional rights being disregarded, and people being abused by the people paid to protect them. Yet jump on every opportunity to point out what black people are doing wrong. How after some of the residents make some poor choices people act like wiping their hands and saying we can ignore that the police haven't even explained how the man got injured or why they behaved so poorly is acceptable and not shameful. Just imagine you let your kid/brother/sister go over to a my house, we go on a car trip. At the end of the trip your childs/siblings spinal chord is almost completely severed. You naturally ask how did my kid get his spine severed? I shrug and say I will investigate. OK that's rough right, well how about a week later and I still have no answer as to how your kid's neck was severed, but now the kid is dead. I am able to tell you I saw your kid/sibling, they were fine, an hour later they were dying, I don't know how it happened or why. So after asking for a week for an explanation to how the person in my custody (your child in this example) had their spine severed, your other children/younger siblings get upset it's been a week and I still haven't provided an explanation for how their family member ended up dead with a severed spine. Another week passes still no explanation as to how your family member had their spine severed on our car trip. Finally some of your family members lash out, fed up with waiting weeks for my investigation into myself to return results and they throw a rocks at the car parked in front of my house (actually my neighbors car). Now I was hit by a ricochet from one of those rocks. Now since your family is destroying property obviously they are wrong. I report my injuries and who I think caused them, and how they were caused to myself and other people I have not seen. I promise I will punish those who have harmed me. After hearing about my injuries you ask "You know it's been a couple weeks since my kid was fatally injured in your custody, I have heard about who caused your injuries and how they happened all day, any insight into how/why that happened to my child?" To which I respond "I'm injured!? No, I told you I am investigating myself to find out why they died in my custody, just wait for my investigation, by the way your family has caused me and people I know harm talk about that until I figure out what I did. I mean if you wanted to know what happened you shouldn't interrupt my investigation by threatening and harming me just because your kid was fatally injured under my supervision a couple weeks ago and I still haven't told you why or how. How dare people point out that my focus on what has happened to me is self centered and disrespectful. Good luck getting me or my friends on your side now! Of course I'm not disrespecting your family, my system is working and I'll tell you Friday why your child died after they interacted with me...maybe... But did you see how many of my friends and family were hurt?! Your family acting like savages won't help you find out why your child died so just tell them to go home and wait. I'll provide detailed information about my injuries while you do, it's really bad what your family is doing, just let my investigation into myself finish so I can tell you how your kid was marred in my custody, stop acting like me talking about my injuries instead of your child is about you geeze! | ||
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Mercy13
United States718 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:10 Millitron wrote: I see. You're ok with racism when it's your favorite race doing. Only black people can be victims of racism right? Those business owners had it coming, they had some money and are white. They're the cause of all the problems in Baltimore. I think rioting is bad, and people shouldn't riot, and I feel bad for people who have had their property destroyed. I just don't see why this is relevant for a discussion about racial disparities in the justice system. Even if rioters were behaving a lot worse it wouldn't change the underlying fact of such racial disparities. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote: when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner. this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. If government doesn't look for the cause of the riot and why people are so angry, then goverment has failed. If people believe they will die in police custody for "unknown reasons" and nothing will be done about it, they have no reason to trust government. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14103 Posts
What's stupid about the whole thing is that the city and the police department of Baltimore are completely controlled by black people and yet do nothing to help the people who have elected them. Almost as bad as how race issues have only gotten worse under Obama. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/ most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:19 Plansix wrote: If government doesn't look for the cause of the riot and why people are so angry, then goverment has failed. If people believe they will die in police custody for "unknown reasons" and nothing will be done about it, they have no reason to trust government. i would not place this burden on the government or police, but rather on the political public at large. it's obvious though that this hasn't happened. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote: when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner. this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. So the rioters are petulant children? Not adults who should be expected to behave like adults? On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote: in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/ most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. Maybe there was no outrage because it didn't really make national headlines. I mean, I never heard about it. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
like for example a report of a parent beating up a crying kid because the kid is hungry would be a crime. people act 'irrationally' under stress but you would have to look at the entire situation in order to form your reaction. it would be ignorance otherwise. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:20 Sermokala wrote: Corporate offices are being shut down beacuse of the violence if this continues they're going to seriously consider moving. With the National Guard being called in and that police officer who's hanging by a thread things can get really bad fast. What's stupid about the whole thing is that the city and the police department of Baltimore are completely controlled by black people and yet do nothing to help the people who have elected them. Almost as bad as how race issues have only gotten worse under Obama. This is what makes this particular case so interesting. The "usual racist suspects" aren't available for blame, which thwarts the typical "cops are racists" and "blame whitey" narratives that we have all come to love. Instead, we're left with a fairly big, self-contained failure of the black community itself, which, as always, no one really wants to look at. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23635 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:27 Millitron wrote: So the rioters are petulant children? Not adults who should be expected to behave like adults? The rioting was started and primarily propagated literally by children. So yes they were largely children. Adults had been peacefully protesting for weeks. On April 29 2015 03:31 xDaunt wrote: This is what makes this particular case so interesting. The "usual racist suspects" aren't available for blame, which thwarts the typical "cops are racists" and "blame whitey" narratives that we have all come to love. Instead, we're left with a fairly big, self-contained failure of the black community itself, which, as always, no one really wants to look at. I don't understand why it is so hard for some people to understand being black doesn't make you incapable of being racist against black people? Please stop with that non-sense. It sounds incredibly ignorant. Every time I hear 'well they were black so it wasn't racism' I want to face palm. Stop being so damn ignorant about racism while simultaneously talking about it like you have a clue, let alone like you are some authority on it. People who say no one wants to look at the problems that the black community bring on themselves is just ignorant as hell. Just because you don't hear about what black people do in their community (on white networks and outlets) doesn't mean they aren't happening. Stop using your ignorance as evidence of a lack of an effort. Another typical racist post, oblivious to how and why it's racist and just flat out ignorant and wrong. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:30 oneofthem wrote: they are angry kids and maybe some very alienated, conspiracy minded people. but you treat this as developing from the experience of a highly stressed and marginalized group of people. like for example a report of a parent beating up a crying kid because the kid is hungry would be a crime. What do you have to say about the fact that most city officials in Baltimore are black? The mayor is black. The chief of police is black. The police commissioner is black. 43% of Baltimore's police officers are black. How can this be a race issue? On April 29 2015 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote: The rioting was started and primarily propagated literally by children. So yes they were largely children. Adults had been peacefully protesting for weeks. Teenagers aren't children. They're old enough to know you shouldn't burn down stores and beat up random people. This whole "Oh they're children, it can't be their fault." mentality is stupid and dangerous. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:35 Millitron wrote: What do you have to say about the fact that most city officials in Baltimore are black? The mayor is black. The chief of police is black. The police commissioner is black. 43% of Baltimore's police officers are black. How can this be a race issue? Teenagers aren't children. They're old enough to know you shouldn't burn down stores and beat up random people. This whole "Oh they're children, it can't be their fault." mentality is stupid and dangerous. Teenagers are children if they are under 18. Literally minors unless the court deems otherwise. And I still fail to see your point beyond "riots are bad," which everyone in this thread agrees with. People are discussing the reasons the riots happened. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
are protesters children? no. they are also not being defended here. however, they also have some legitimate grievances. | ||
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farvacola
United States18846 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:45 farvacola wrote: I love how folks are talking about Baltimore as though the bulk of its criminal justice procedure and enforcement isn't dictated by the state of Maryland. Its my favorite part about it. Like the local government has any say as to how the court or DA's office is run. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:39 Plansix wrote: Teenagers are children if they are under 18. Literally minors unless the court deems otherwise. And I still fail to see your point beyond "riots are bad," which everyone in this thread agrees with. People are discussing the reasons the riots happened. So if those children are throwing bricks, burning buildings, and beating people up, you're fine with just a slap on the wrist? They're just children after all, they can't possibly be responsible for their actions. And as xDaunt has been saying, a big reason is a failure of the community to raise it's youth to not be criminals. All this rioting and looting is setting a great example right? Does it really seem like a productive way to reduce black incarceration rates? Or instead does it teach kids that burning buildings, assaulting people, and looting stores is great fun and consequence-free? I'm inclined to believe the latter. On April 29 2015 03:47 Plansix wrote: Its my favorite part about it. Like the local government has any say as to how the court or DA's office is run. The court is a county office. Baltimore makes up the majority of the population of that county. You're telling me Baltimore has no authority over the county court system? | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:02 puerk wrote: When there is such a huge disparity in outcomes, supporting the status quo is actually pretty close to suppression. A civilised society must strive to be better than this, and the whole personal responsibility crowd, is missing the mark: you can not pull yourself up by the bootstraps from the quicksand. So emotionally invested and provoked people in suffering behave not perfectly rational? How could this ever happen? I thought that was impossible under your assumptions about humans (perfect information, rational actors). Keep in mind you do not have the right to equal outcomes. You have the right to equal treatment and opportunity, but not outcomes. Yes, you can use outcomes to figure out if treatment and opportunity are imbalanced, but you cannot go the extra step of treating outcomes as treatment. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
This is akin to the LA riots, and it is a surprise that there aren't more of these riots. If things don't change, I suspect there will be. This is an issue of police-authority not being responsible or accountable, one that could be extrapolated to pretty much every metropolitan police department. These issues have never been solely about race, but to say it isn't a factor is extremely ignorant, because when you have such income disparity between races, well... everything and anything can essentially become a race-issue. But I digress. I can not stand this "discussion". Riots happen for a reason, and there is clear reason in this case. Very clear. And as far as reasons for riots go, it's about as good as it gets. This should be simple. But, instead, some of you seem to want to argue that the people in Baltimore are just morally inferior or some such shit... Or you want to make it entirely about black people being morally inferior. You just dance around it instead of outright saying it, but we can all see what you're really saying. This is a "black" problem. White people don't riot. Right... Unless there is sports involved. Go Red Sox. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday seemed to be debating how -- not if -- same-sex marriage should become legal in every state in the country. During oral arguments, the nine justices weighed whether now is the right time to force states to let same-sex couples marry, pointing to how quickly public opinion has shifted on the issue. Thirty-seven states and Washington, D.C., currently recognize same-sex marriage. Justice Anthony Kennedy, who is considered a swing vote and who was a key figure in striking down the Defense of Marriage Act back in 2013, suggested the court may be moving too quickly to force states to marry same-sex couples. “This definition has been with us for millennia,” Kennedy said of opposite-sex marriages. "It's very difficult for the court to say, 'Oh, well, we know better.'” However, Kennedy noted that about 10 years had passed between when the Supreme Court struck down separate-but-equal racial discrimination and laws banning interracial marriage. That's about the same amount of time between when the Supreme Court ended sodomy laws and the present, he said. The judges are considering two issues during the oral arguments: whether states are required to offer marriage licenses to gay couples, and whether states have to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states. The court will likely issue one decision in June covering appeals from four states -- Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio and Tennessee. Source | ||
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