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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On April 29 2015 03:54 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:39 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:35 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:30 oneofthem wrote:
they are angry kids and maybe some very alienated, conspiracy minded people. but you treat this as developing from the experience of a highly stressed and marginalized group of people.
like for example a report of a parent beating up a crying kid because the kid is hungry would be a crime. What do you have to say about the fact that most city officials in Baltimore are black? The mayor is black. The chief of police is black. The police commissioner is black. 43% of Baltimore's police officers are black. How can this be a race issue? On April 29 2015 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 03:27 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. So the rioters are petulant children? Not adults who should be expected to behave like adults? The rioting was started and primarily propagated literally by children. So yes they were largely children. Adults had been peacefully protesting for weeks. Teenagers aren't children. They're old enough to know you shouldn't burn down stores and beat up random people. This whole "Oh they're children, it can't be their fault." mentality is stupid and dangerous. Teenagers are children if they are under 18. Literally minors unless the court deems otherwise. And I still fail to see your point beyond "riots are bad," which everyone in this thread agrees with. People are discussing the reasons the riots happened. So if those children are throwing bricks, burning buildings, and beating people up, you're fine with just a slap on the wrist? They're just children after all, they can't possibly be responsible for their actions. And as xDaunt has been saying, a big reason is a failure of the community to raise it's youth to not be criminals. All this rioting and looting is setting a great example right? Does it really seem like a productive way to reduce black incarceration rates? Or instead does it teach kids that burning buildings, assaulting people, and looting stores is great fun and consequence-free? I'm inclined to believe the latter. Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:47 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:45 farvacola wrote:
I love how folks are talking about Baltimore as though the bulk of its criminal justice procedure and enforcement isn't dictated by the state of Maryland. Its my favorite part about it. Like the local government has any say as to how the court or DA's office is run. The court is a county office. Baltimore makes up the majority of the population of that county. You're telling me Baltimore has no authority over the county court system?
What is the point of raising your youth to be good citizens if they are just going to die in police custody due to "unexplained injuries"?
But your right, lets blame the most poor, most disenfranchised cities in America for being poor and then tell them that they raised their children wrong. While also ignoring the fact that their public services are garbage and their police are abusive. Literally no one gave a shit about the city until they burned that CVS.
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On April 29 2015 03:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday seemed to be debating how -- not if -- same-sex marriage should become legal in every state in the country.
During oral arguments, the nine justices weighed whether now is the right time to force states to let same-sex couples marry, pointing to how quickly public opinion has shifted on the issue. Thirty-seven states and Washington, D.C., currently recognize same-sex marriage.
Justice Anthony Kennedy, who is considered a swing vote and who was a key figure in striking down the Defense of Marriage Act back in 2013, suggested the court may be moving too quickly to force states to marry same-sex couples.
“This definition has been with us for millennia,” Kennedy said of opposite-sex marriages. "It's very difficult for the court to say, 'Oh, well, we know better.'”
However, Kennedy noted that about 10 years had passed between when the Supreme Court struck down separate-but-equal racial discrimination and laws banning interracial marriage. That's about the same amount of time between when the Supreme Court ended sodomy laws and the present, he said.
The judges are considering two issues during the oral arguments: whether states are required to offer marriage licenses to gay couples, and whether states have to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states. The court will likely issue one decision in June covering appeals from four states -- Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio and Tennessee. Source
I wish they'd swing the other way. Make marriage rights equal in that the state can recognize no marriages. It's stupid that the government is involved in marriage at all.
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It feels like there's a lot of talking past each other, and people accusing the other side of things the other side didn't say; which leads to a very unproductive conversation.
Really, a lot of idiots just misrepresent what the other side is saying/believing, which just leads nowhere.
People need to be careful about how much they try to read between the lines, it can easily lead to reading things that just aren't there.
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On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities.
People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout
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On April 29 2015 03:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:54 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:39 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:35 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:30 oneofthem wrote:
they are angry kids and maybe some very alienated, conspiracy minded people. but you treat this as developing from the experience of a highly stressed and marginalized group of people.
like for example a report of a parent beating up a crying kid because the kid is hungry would be a crime. What do you have to say about the fact that most city officials in Baltimore are black? The mayor is black. The chief of police is black. The police commissioner is black. 43% of Baltimore's police officers are black. How can this be a race issue? On April 29 2015 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 03:27 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. So the rioters are petulant children? Not adults who should be expected to behave like adults? The rioting was started and primarily propagated literally by children. So yes they were largely children. Adults had been peacefully protesting for weeks. Teenagers aren't children. They're old enough to know you shouldn't burn down stores and beat up random people. This whole "Oh they're children, it can't be their fault." mentality is stupid and dangerous. Teenagers are children if they are under 18. Literally minors unless the court deems otherwise. And I still fail to see your point beyond "riots are bad," which everyone in this thread agrees with. People are discussing the reasons the riots happened. So if those children are throwing bricks, burning buildings, and beating people up, you're fine with just a slap on the wrist? They're just children after all, they can't possibly be responsible for their actions. And as xDaunt has been saying, a big reason is a failure of the community to raise it's youth to not be criminals. All this rioting and looting is setting a great example right? Does it really seem like a productive way to reduce black incarceration rates? Or instead does it teach kids that burning buildings, assaulting people, and looting stores is great fun and consequence-free? I'm inclined to believe the latter. On April 29 2015 03:47 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:45 farvacola wrote:
I love how folks are talking about Baltimore as though the bulk of its criminal justice procedure and enforcement isn't dictated by the state of Maryland. Its my favorite part about it. Like the local government has any say as to how the court or DA's office is run. The court is a county office. Baltimore makes up the majority of the population of that county. You're telling me Baltimore has no authority over the county court system? What is the point of raising your youth to be good citizens if they are just going to die in police custody due to "unexplained injuries"? But your right, lets blame the most poor, most disenfranchised cities in America for being poor and then tell them that they raised their children wrong. While also ignoring the fact that their public services are garbage and their police are abusive. Literally no one gave a shit about the city until they burned that CVS.
I'm not defending police. They need better oversight. Mandatory cameras. Internal Affairs divisions that are not part of the departments they watch. Get rid of fines entirely. Stop using police to enforce laws on non-violent crime. You don't need cops to collect from a guy behind on his child-support payments.
But I'm certainly not a fan of the rioters. They're just digging themselves deeper. And its so much easier to just play the victim than it is to look inwards and see that maybe they aren't exactly helping the situation.
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On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout
problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent.
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On April 29 2015 04:07 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:58 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:54 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:39 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:35 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:30 oneofthem wrote:
they are angry kids and maybe some very alienated, conspiracy minded people. but you treat this as developing from the experience of a highly stressed and marginalized group of people.
like for example a report of a parent beating up a crying kid because the kid is hungry would be a crime. What do you have to say about the fact that most city officials in Baltimore are black? The mayor is black. The chief of police is black. The police commissioner is black. 43% of Baltimore's police officers are black. How can this be a race issue? On April 29 2015 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 03:27 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. So the rioters are petulant children? Not adults who should be expected to behave like adults? The rioting was started and primarily propagated literally by children. So yes they were largely children. Adults had been peacefully protesting for weeks. Teenagers aren't children. They're old enough to know you shouldn't burn down stores and beat up random people. This whole "Oh they're children, it can't be their fault." mentality is stupid and dangerous. Teenagers are children if they are under 18. Literally minors unless the court deems otherwise. And I still fail to see your point beyond "riots are bad," which everyone in this thread agrees with. People are discussing the reasons the riots happened. So if those children are throwing bricks, burning buildings, and beating people up, you're fine with just a slap on the wrist? They're just children after all, they can't possibly be responsible for their actions. And as xDaunt has been saying, a big reason is a failure of the community to raise it's youth to not be criminals. All this rioting and looting is setting a great example right? Does it really seem like a productive way to reduce black incarceration rates? Or instead does it teach kids that burning buildings, assaulting people, and looting stores is great fun and consequence-free? I'm inclined to believe the latter. On April 29 2015 03:47 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 03:45 farvacola wrote:
I love how folks are talking about Baltimore as though the bulk of its criminal justice procedure and enforcement isn't dictated by the state of Maryland. Its my favorite part about it. Like the local government has any say as to how the court or DA's office is run. The court is a county office. Baltimore makes up the majority of the population of that county. You're telling me Baltimore has no authority over the county court system? What is the point of raising your youth to be good citizens if they are just going to die in police custody due to "unexplained injuries"? But your right, lets blame the most poor, most disenfranchised cities in America for being poor and then tell them that they raised their children wrong. While also ignoring the fact that their public services are garbage and their police are abusive. Literally no one gave a shit about the city until they burned that CVS. I'm not defending police. They need better oversight. Mandatory cameras. Internal Affairs divisions that are not part of the departments they watch. Get rid of fines entirely. Stop using police to enforce laws on non-violent crime. You don't need cops to collect from a guy behind on his child-support payments. But I'm certainly not a fan of the rioters. They're just digging themselves deeper. And its so much easier to just play the victim than it is to look inwards and see that maybe they aren't exactly helping the situation.
They are digging themselves in deeper because they have nothing to lose. Life isn't going to get better and silently suffering wasn't doing anything. I am not a fan. But I am not going to blame that community for the actions of the rioter or act like they can stop this. People have known this was coming for years.
And they can't "play victim" when a lot of their problems are caused by outside forces they cannot control.
On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent.
Exactly, they went after why the riot happened, rather just finger wagging and saying "why can't you control these people, this isn't helping your cause". Their cause shouldn't need help, since its right.
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On April 29 2015 04:12 Plansix wrote:
Exactly, they went after why the riot happened, rather just finger wagging and saying "why can't you control these people, this isn't helping your cause". Their cause shouldn't need help, since its right.
Who's "they"? Do you think the country at large corrected the situation at UMass? Because they didn't. Boston handled it on their own. Any national news coverage was pretty similar to the news coverage of Baltimore, minus the nonsense about how it's all whitey's fault. It was all "Look how out of control Boston is, they should really do something about those hooligans."
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On April 29 2015 04:18 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:12 Plansix wrote:
Exactly, they went after why the riot happened, rather just finger wagging and saying "why can't you control these people, this isn't helping your cause". Their cause shouldn't need help, since its right. Who's "they"? Do you think the country at large corrected the situation at UMass? Because they didn't. Boston handled it on their own. Any national news coverage was pretty similar to the news coverage of Baltimore, minus the nonsense about how it's all whitey's fault. It was all "Look how out of control Boston is, they should really do something about those hooligans."
The cause of the riots was a sports game, not the death of an unarmed man in police custody with unknown injuries caused by "someone". There also wasn't a decade of warning that this was going to happen, let alone the last two years.
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On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent.
No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting.
7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. Show nested quote +7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation.
yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth.
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On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. Show nested quote +7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation.
You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"
http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/
Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people?
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On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth.
Could you show me?
On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people?
Show me (no straw men please).
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On April 29 2015 04:18 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:12 Plansix wrote:
Exactly, they went after why the riot happened, rather just finger wagging and saying "why can't you control these people, this isn't helping your cause". Their cause shouldn't need help, since its right. Who's "they"? Do you think the country at large corrected the situation at UMass? Because they didn't. Boston handled it on their own. Any national news coverage was pretty similar to the news coverage of Baltimore, minus the nonsense about how it's all whitey's fault. It was all "Look how out of control Boston is, they should really do something about those hooligans."
Could you (or anyone) find the Fox News story on the riots in Boston? How about a different national right wing outlet talking about it? Let alone a report claiming the consistent history of pointless destruction is embedded in their culture. Of course you won't find the wall to wall coverage of it on right wing outlets like when black people do it but of course race has nothing to do with that either right?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please).
what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors.
denying either is delusional. you need to show the basic level of awareness in order to continue this particular discussion.
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On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors.
What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that?
Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc.
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On April 29 2015 03:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:45 farvacola wrote:
I love how folks are talking about Baltimore as though the bulk of its criminal justice procedure and enforcement isn't dictated by the state of Maryland. Its my favorite part about it. Like the local government has any say as to how the court or DA's office is run.
But it does that's the fundemental way a federalist government is formed. Mistometers are city level felony is county level both is entirely dictated to by the metropolitan area of Baltimore. For the federal government to get involved it has to cross state lines while for state cops have to wait until it crosses county lines. Basic civil government stuff.
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On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote: On April 29 2015 03:10 oneofthem wrote:
when your child is throwing a tantrum for some irrational reason, ordinary reaction with the interest of the child in mind is to address his or her actual needs in a productive and healthy manner.
this basic interpretive charity is lost for a riot with some legitimate grievances. and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc.
What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004?
If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
jonny i was not talking about the media but general discussion etc. ctrl f black community for this thread
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On April 29 2015 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 04:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:39 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:30 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote:
[quote]
and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. yes, the individual 'drunk' students, rather than a racial class or community. a direct analogy would be characterizing baltimore rioters as confused and angry youth. Could you show me? On April 29 2015 04:32 YoureFired wrote:On April 29 2015 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 04:11 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 29 2015 03:20 oneofthem wrote:On April 29 2015 03:12 puerk wrote:
[quote]
and what about the posters that would not do so, but instead slap the child until it stops and "respects the authority" of its parents? in that case they would immediately appear ridiculous and out of touch with priorities. anyway people don't actually care about property owners etc in their outrage about riots. i don't remmeber outrage against rioters, or 'the white rioting community' when a bunch of drunk teens smashed property. this behavior is also very common. http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/whites-riot-over-pumpkins-in-nh-and-twitter-turns-it-into-epic-lesson-about-ferguson/most pogroms and riots historically have been carried out by white mobs against minorities. People are critical when whites riot too. I hadn't heard about the Keene incident before, but when UMass rioted when the Red Socks won the world series people weren't happy about it and the university took steps to prevent it from happening again. They hired former Boston commissioner Edward Davis to make a comprehensive report on the 'Blarney Blowout'. You can read it if you like here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240227411/Edward-Davis-Report-on-the-Blarney-Blowout problem is in those situations the animus is properly directed against individuals rather than 'black/white community.' similar level of disassocation between specific, wrongly behaving individuals and racial class/community is absent. No, the animus is directed against drunk college kids because that is who was rioting. 7. Public Perception : The “Blarney Blowout” and similar historical events have contributed to a “party school” reputation that UMass Amherst administration and many students work very hard to change. The negative media coverage after this event only reinforced that reputation. You see, both you and Millitron are doing what is called "false equivalence"http://anewdomain.net/2015/03/29/jason-dias-racism-reality-outrage-false-equivalence/Let's talk about this (if you're down) so that we stop talking past each other and actually start something substantive. Here's the big question: Is discrimination against Black people comparable to discrimination against White people? Show me (no straw men please). what is there to show? that drunk college students is not a racial class, or there is substantial blaming of 'blacks' etc in the wake of rioting rather than particularized bad actors. What particular group would that be? And how was the media reporting it compared to that? Edit: I haven't paid too much attention to Baltimore, but in Ferguson the media bent over backwards to constantly remind everyone that most were peaceful protesters, etc. What do you (or anyone) know about right wing outlets covering the rioting in Boston after the World Series? Or the rioting in 2006? or 2004? If it's little or nothing (which I suspect is the case) just stop talking about how riots are covered because you obviously lack a frame of reference/awareness required to have substantive discussion about it.
Why the tangent regarding fox news? Are you looking to debate a conservative caricature and talk past the posters in this thread?
We seem to have TL wide consensus that individual rioters are bad and a problem. You also have agreement that police having a monopoly on force without effective civilian oversight is a problem. So why have you guys been arguing past each other for 10 pages?
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EPT
