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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
If there is one thing I want to see this cycle, it's IgnE becoming a Sanders propagandist.
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On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data.
You posted shitty incomplete data, which is why I asked if you looked how they gathered it and you didn't respond...
I still don't see how that means I was saying all media = Fox News. What people were talking about is how the coverage particularly from the right but on CNN as well was racist. People denied that was the case I demonstrated they didn't know what they were talking about when it came to media coverage (particularly on the right) of riots depending on the majority race of the composition or what was racist about it and why.
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On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. Truth is that close to zero probably watches right-wing media - in fact you seem to be the best informed about right-wing media of us all. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data.
A big idea that gets thrown around a lot by GH, Plainsix, and others is that unless you're part of the group who is claiming to be oppressed, your opinion is meaningless.
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On April 29 2015 07:13 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. Truth is that close to zero probably watches right-wing media - in fact you seem to be the best informed about right-wing media of us all. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data. A big idea that gets thrown around a lot by GH, Plainsix, and others is that unless you're part of the group who is claiming to be oppressed, your opinion is meaningless.
that doesn't get thrown around by me, meaningless opinions are meaningless because the are critically uninformed. Oppressed people can have meaningless opinions too if they are comparably ignorant On that which they comment.
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On April 29 2015 07:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data. You posted shitty incomplete data, which is why I asked if you looked how they gathered it and you didn't respond... I still don't see how that means I was saying all media = Fox News. What people were talking about is how the coverage particularly from the right but on CNN as well was racist. People denied that was the case I demonstrated they didn't know what they were talking about when it came to media coverage (particularly on the right) of riots depending on the majority race of the composition or what was racist about it and why.
What are you talking about concerning the data? The articles are in full. The data is neither shitty nor incomplete (and they seem to have been rather rigorous in collection to be honest). The studies are some of the most cited (and in the other articles I have found only positively so). And even if you were right that this data was a troublesome as you try to portray it, the data is still better than anything you have posted (and need I remind you that I have consistently asked you to provide better - or any - data?).
I can show you the very post where you as the first bring up right-wing media in response to Millitron talking about national news coverage. The next post to you was asking why you specifically targeted right-wing media to which you responded that the reason why no one was posting right-wing media was because it was racist. That the right-wing media coverage is racist does not make the media coverage in it's entirety racist - that was however what you attempted to portray it as.
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On April 29 2015 05:30 Jormundr wrote:Here is what the right has to say about Baltimore. Show nested quote +People’s perception of freedom never ceases to amaze me. French revolutionaries sent the ruling class to the guillotine, only to enslave themselves to the class structure of socialism. The Russian Tsars were chased out of their own country so that “freedom fighters” could live under the tyranny of communism. And, after more than a century of civil liberty battles and triumphs, African-Americans are flocking to the party that opposed every measurable civil rights initiative since the Emancipation Proclamation. It should stun historians that the party of the Ku Klux Klan and segregation now has an undeniable stranglehold on black America. Source
Tard who don't know what they are talking about. Mixing every form of "insurrections", from the french revolution to the civil right movement, without any context... So stupid.
User was warned for this post
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I'm actually fairly impressed by how compelling an argument he indirectly makes for the US school system being in dire need of some love...
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On April 29 2015 07:26 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 07:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data. You posted shitty incomplete data, which is why I asked if you looked how they gathered it and you didn't respond... I still don't see how that means I was saying all media = Fox News. What people were talking about is how the coverage particularly from the right but on CNN as well was racist. People denied that was the case I demonstrated they didn't know what they were talking about when it came to media coverage (particularly on the right) of riots depending on the majority race of the composition or what was racist about it and why. What are you talking about concerning the data? The articles are in full. The data is neither shitty nor incomplete (and they seem to have been rather rigorous in collection to be honest). The studies are some of the most cited (and in the other articles I have found only positively so). And even if you were right that this data was a troublesome as you try to portray it, the data is still better than anything you have posted (and need I remind you that I have consistently asked you to provide better - or any - data?). I can show you the very post where you as the first bring up right-wing media in response to Millitron talking about national news coverage. The next post to you was asking why you specifically targeted right-wing media to which you responded that the reason why no one was posting right-wing media was because it was racist. That the right-wing media coverage is racist does not make the media coverage in it's entirety racist - that was however what you attempted to portray it as.
I can't respond fully from my phone but...
How about the data on cannabis possesion arrests that I posted?
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On April 29 2015 07:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 07:26 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 07:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data. You posted shitty incomplete data, which is why I asked if you looked how they gathered it and you didn't respond... I still don't see how that means I was saying all media = Fox News. What people were talking about is how the coverage particularly from the right but on CNN as well was racist. People denied that was the case I demonstrated they didn't know what they were talking about when it came to media coverage (particularly on the right) of riots depending on the majority race of the composition or what was racist about it and why. What are you talking about concerning the data? The articles are in full. The data is neither shitty nor incomplete (and they seem to have been rather rigorous in collection to be honest). The studies are some of the most cited (and in the other articles I have found only positively so). And even if you were right that this data was a troublesome as you try to portray it, the data is still better than anything you have posted (and need I remind you that I have consistently asked you to provide better - or any - data?). I can show you the very post where you as the first bring up right-wing media in response to Millitron talking about national news coverage. The next post to you was asking why you specifically targeted right-wing media to which you responded that the reason why no one was posting right-wing media was because it was racist. That the right-wing media coverage is racist does not make the media coverage in it's entirety racist - that was however what you attempted to portray it as. I can't respond fully from my phone but... How about the data on cannabis possesion arrests that I posted?
I'm pretty sure we are talking about police violence and not cannabis right now.
EDIT: I also can't seem to find the data you are talking about.
EDIT2: I'm going to bed now but I will respond tomorrow if you post anything of relevance that does not include any more personal attacks towards me.
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On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look.
I mean, you straight up called someone racist earlier because you didn't like what they said. I saw it before the edit. So it got personal when you made it.
And I understand you care about all the facts. I am pointing out that you might not have them all as you not are from the US. The history of Baltimore is a fucking bummer, which is why people are not shocked there are riots.
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On April 29 2015 07:27 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 05:30 Jormundr wrote:Here is what the right has to say about Baltimore. People’s perception of freedom never ceases to amaze me. French revolutionaries sent the ruling class to the guillotine, only to enslave themselves to the class structure of socialism. The Russian Tsars were chased out of their own country so that “freedom fighters” could live under the tyranny of communism. And, after more than a century of civil liberty battles and triumphs, African-Americans are flocking to the party that opposed every measurable civil rights initiative since the Emancipation Proclamation. It should stun historians that the party of the Ku Klux Klan and segregation now has an undeniable stranglehold on black America. Source Tard who don't know what they are talking about. Mixing every form of "insurrections", from the french revolution to the civil right movement, without any context... So stupid.
Well, it is true that the Democrats used to be the party accused of racism. They were the ones who instituted poll taxes, Jim Crow, and all sorts of other bullshit.
Fun fact, the first gun control laws in the US were pushed by Democrats and the KKK to keep black people unarmed.
On April 29 2015 07:53 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 07:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 07:26 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 07:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 07:07 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I don't think anyone ever said all media =Fox News. If I missed that and you aren't making it up I guess you have a point there? I just asked because SF is a terrible place to assess race relations (particularly black-white). People were talking about the media coverage in general with regards to different riots. You were the one to focus only on right-wing media and claiming that everyone was in denial of facts because they in their ignorance didn't admit that the right wing media coverage was racist. I still don't see the relevance of my person to that of the validity of the statements made in this thread. Once again, unlike you, I have actually posted concrete data. You posted shitty incomplete data, which is why I asked if you looked how they gathered it and you didn't respond... I still don't see how that means I was saying all media = Fox News. What people were talking about is how the coverage particularly from the right but on CNN as well was racist. People denied that was the case I demonstrated they didn't know what they were talking about when it came to media coverage (particularly on the right) of riots depending on the majority race of the composition or what was racist about it and why. What are you talking about concerning the data? The articles are in full. The data is neither shitty nor incomplete (and they seem to have been rather rigorous in collection to be honest). The studies are some of the most cited (and in the other articles I have found only positively so). And even if you were right that this data was a troublesome as you try to portray it, the data is still better than anything you have posted (and need I remind you that I have consistently asked you to provide better - or any - data?). I can show you the very post where you as the first bring up right-wing media in response to Millitron talking about national news coverage. The next post to you was asking why you specifically targeted right-wing media to which you responded that the reason why no one was posting right-wing media was because it was racist. That the right-wing media coverage is racist does not make the media coverage in it's entirety racist - that was however what you attempted to portray it as. I can't respond fully from my phone but... How about the data on cannabis possesion arrests that I posted? I'm pretty sure we are talking about police violence and not cannabis right now. EDIT: I also can't seem to find the data you are talking about. EDIT2: I'm going to bed now but I will respond tomorrow if you post anything of relevance that does not include any more personal attacks towards me.
Earlier, GH posted some data showing that black people were arrested much more often for marijuana-related offenses despite having similar use rates. The claim is that this inequality is evidence that black people are being targeted.
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On April 29 2015 07:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) will launch a campaign seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 2016 on Thursday.
Sanders will be the first official challenger for the Democratic nomination to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who launched her campaign earlier this month.
Sanders' decision was first reported byVermont Public Radio, and confirmed by The Huffington Post. Source
I think sanders just wants to give a Hillary a somewhat tough run, so that after primaries she'll look more vulnerable for the elections, so people will actually go out and vote.
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On April 29 2015 07:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:52 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:On April 29 2015 06:28 Ghostcom wrote:On April 29 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Question: how much Fox news and American news coverage is played in Denmark? All politics are local. Racism is the same. I lived 12 months in San Francisco and have been back to the US (other other parts) for 2x4 months each place. Personally, I would be reluctant to comment on race relations in Denmark even if I lived there for several years. Or really any social issue in a country I was not from and had not experienced previous conflicts over race/social issue. The history with Baltimore and racism has been decades in the making and the news coverage of it sucks. And the need to blame "the black community" like there is some black community news letter/mailing list than goes out every morning is ridiculous. It is pretty racist that Fox news is asking "were are all the civil rights leaders" as if they have some magic powers to stop riots when the national guard is required. I don't really care about what you feel... I care about facts and so far I'm the only one who has linked anything concrete. It's a good thing I don't feel a need to blame "the black community" (and I haven't once done so). The "where are all the civil rights leaders" question is obviously moronic and I have not once stated otherwise. I have however pointed out that it is wrong to equal all media to FOX news. I really don't understand why this had to become about my person instead of my statements? EDIT: And I'm not going to disclose the other two locations as 1) it should be statements that mattered, not my person and 2) It would become rather easy to identify me provided you knew where to look. I mean, you straight up called someone racist earlier because you didn't like what they said. I saw it before the edit. So it got personal when you made it. And I understand you care about all the facts. I am pointing out that you might not have them all as you not are from the US. The history of Baltimore is a fucking bummer, which is why people are not shocked there are riots.
Uhh no - it got personal on the page prior to that where GreenHorizons called me a racists for using the word "apparently" to convey that I was taking his word for the right-wing media coverage being racist.
Someone then called him out for the idiocy of labeling me a racist to which GH responded:
On April 29 2015 06:21 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 06:19 zlefin wrote:
GH, I'm gonna ignore all accusation of racism you level, because you throw it around WAY too freely and unjustifiably. Do what you want but I'm done not calling racism racism because people here don't know what racism is.
The reason why I edited out the word "racist" was because it became obvious to me after hitting post that it would not be clear that I was saying it in jest to the notion that no one but GreenHorizon understood what racism was.
I have also never claimed to be shocked as to the riots in Baltimore. You are trying to make it seem like I'm arguing for something that I'm not. GrenHorizons is arguing that police brutality is racially motivated when there is no evidence to back it up - if anything it looks like race is simply a proxy through which poor socioeconomic status (and thus problematic neighborhoods) is working.
EDIT: Your understanding of my posts is so poor that I'm beginning to question my English - is it that bad?
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There was a study that came out a while ago that showed that even black police officers suffered from racial bias. I don't believe that the policing in Baltimore is a product of intentional racism. I do believe that the police department there is likely very guilt of racial bias, unconscious profiling and everything else. The Baltimore and city government are well known for being ineffective at dealing with issues of race and crime. There is a reason the show the Wire exists and the city tried to eject them.
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On April 29 2015 08:16 Plansix wrote:
There was a study that came out a while ago that showed that even black police officers suffered from racial bias. I don't believe that the policing in Baltimore is a product of intentional racism. I do believe that the police department there is likely very guilt of racial bias, unconscious profiling and everything else. The Baltimore and city government are well known for being ineffective at dealing with issues of race and crime. There is a reason the show the Wire exists and the city tried to eject them.
How do you propose dealing with unconscious profiling? It seems to me that there's no real way to fight it. Any sensitivity training you provide will be countered by real life. Given the fact that black people make up a disproportionate amount of the nation's poor, police will still have confrontations more often with black people. Every time a black suspect is combative will undermine the anti-bias training.
Now, I actually was able to provide solutions that didn't rely on denying reality. Mandatory cameras, Internal Affairs departments, getting rid of fines and the War on Drugs are all possible.
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On April 29 2015 08:26 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 08:16 Plansix wrote:
There was a study that came out a while ago that showed that even black police officers suffered from racial bias. I don't believe that the policing in Baltimore is a product of intentional racism. I do believe that the police department there is likely very guilt of racial bias, unconscious profiling and everything else. The Baltimore and city government are well known for being ineffective at dealing with issues of race and crime. There is a reason the show the Wire exists and the city tried to eject them. How do you propose dealing with unconscious profiling? It seems to me that there's no real way to fight it. Any sensitivity training you provide will be countered by real life. Given the fact that black people make up a disproportionate amount of the nation's poor, police will still have confrontations more often with black people. Every time a black suspect is combative will undermine the anti-bias training. Now, I actually was able to provide solutions that didn't rely on denying reality. Mandatory cameras, Internal Affairs departments, getting rid of fines and the War on Drugs are all possible.
Here is a good article about acknowledging and reducing implicit bias. http://www.ncsc.org/~/media/Files/PDF/Topics/Gender and Racial Fairness/IB_Strategies_033012.ashx Denying implicit bias' effects on justice and saying it is impossible to deal with is to actually deny reality.
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Okay, so rhetoric aside, here's my question: What are everybody's policy prescriptions?
Obviously there is a problem, Baltimore is burning, as Ferguson did before it. What specific actions should the protesters be pushing for? They will obviously accomplish nothing without specific demands.
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On April 29 2015 08:35 Sandvich wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 08:26 Millitron wrote:On April 29 2015 08:16 Plansix wrote:
There was a study that came out a while ago that showed that even black police officers suffered from racial bias. I don't believe that the policing in Baltimore is a product of intentional racism. I do believe that the police department there is likely very guilt of racial bias, unconscious profiling and everything else. The Baltimore and city government are well known for being ineffective at dealing with issues of race and crime. There is a reason the show the Wire exists and the city tried to eject them. How do you propose dealing with unconscious profiling? It seems to me that there's no real way to fight it. Any sensitivity training you provide will be countered by real life. Given the fact that black people make up a disproportionate amount of the nation's poor, police will still have confrontations more often with black people. Every time a black suspect is combative will undermine the anti-bias training. Now, I actually was able to provide solutions that didn't rely on denying reality. Mandatory cameras, Internal Affairs departments, getting rid of fines and the War on Drugs are all possible. Here is a good article about acknowledging and reducing implicit bias. http://www.ncsc.org/~/media/Files/PDF/Topics/Gender and Racial Fairness/IB_Strategies_033012.ashx Denying implicit bias' effects on justice and saying it is impossible to deal with is to actually deny reality.
Haven't read the article (skimming now) but I'd agree that you can manage the bias. IMO the harder part is separating outcomes that arise from bias vs one group is legitimately committing more crime.
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To help deal with bias in hiring, iirc some larger companies have blanked out the name on job applications for the person making the hiring decision. (obviously someone else at the company looks up the name to check out the history and such, but as long as that doesn't raise issues, they keep it separate).
It would seem quite hard to have a justice system wherein the accused's face/name/other identifiers are blanked; though there may be subsections of the justice system where you could do that.
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Your understanding of my posts is so poor that I'm beginning to question my English - is it that bad?
That's funny because I was thinking the same thing about you and Mili.
OK mili the point isn't that the numbers show that all police are 'targeting' black people (although if we're being honest we all admit some are) stop saying straight bullshit like that please.
As for Ghost. Show me where I called you as a person "a racist"?
What we are talking about is not just criminal violence committed by the police motivated soley by intentional racist targeting as people like you and mili try to paint (although it is a portion of it) what at least I and a few others were talking about is disproportionate/unequal/inexplicable/unacceptable treatment at every level of the criminal justice system regarding people of color and people of less means. It's been mentioned that many of the socioeconomic problems were passed on from what everyone agrees was open and government supported institutional racism and the blatant denial of constitutional rights for over 100 years.
What people on the right seem to be focused on largely to the exclusion of every other relevant piece of information is all the things black people are doing wrong and little or no attention is given to the things the police or the system is doing wrong. Notice the total vacuum of leadership that is the republican party around this issue/situation.
What you noticed today was far more people out in the streets and they were/are peaceful, so what are right wing outlets talking about/showing video on loop? Not the people praying among the rioting, not the people protecting shops and homes when the police stood idly by, not the people who cleaning their own streets, not the representative they interviewed that actually explained the rioting and the response, not any of the things the vast majority of the oppressed comunity did right, just the same footage of the same shit over and over again, cars burning , kids throwing rocks, people taking liquor, over and over again. Only after all day of peaceful protesting have they even entertained the idea that the community is who is responsible for fixing this and the government didn't do shit even though it is the core of everything they claim to believe.
EDIT: That being said as for solutions I think mili's are a good start. Another thing I have suggested at least a month ago was Investigating more departments and making recommendations for them to fix their problems. I'd like to see criminal officers and departments actually face jail time as a result of their crimes but correcting the behavior is more important than punishing the ones who did it so focusing on that part first makes sense. Implicit bias education would be nice too, then the cop from earlier could of at least said that he knew drug use was similar across races but that his experience made him feel otherwise, as opposed to being surprised by what is a commonly known fact among many people with far less responsibility and/or authority around such stuff.
Forcing departments to keep and report better records regarding people they kill would be important too. There are plenty more but those are the ones that seem like we should all be in agreement on and I can't think of a good reason why they aren't done already or getting support from any presidential candidates?
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EPT
