|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 26 2015 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't thinking calling America out for bad gun culture is any better or worse than calling black families out for "culture problems"
A lot of bs rhetoric from holier than thou types for both issues. It's ignoring the realities that makes both groups look bad.
i fail to see how these are even remotely similiar
|
Black culture and gun culture stereotypes are just as problematic as fundamentalist religious culture.
|
10000 people being killed by guns every year isnt just a stereotype anymore
and i still think that racists sterotypes against a oppressd minority are clearly worse than gun culture stereotypes, whatever these are.
|
On March 26 2015 08:01 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't thinking calling America out for bad gun culture is any better or worse than calling black families out for "culture problems"
A lot of bs rhetoric from holier than thou types for both issues. It's ignoring the realities that makes both groups look bad. i fail to see how these are even remotely similiar
Gun issues are largely connected to culture as are problems in the black community.
In both cases you have clueless people on both sides of the issue using rhetoric around culture to explain problems that are both more complex and more simple.
In both groups people who see any commentary as an attack on who they are, no matter how reasonable the point, are a large part of the problem.
Not so ironically, all this is always missing that there has already been a mass legal disarming of minorities by using bullshit drug laws to plaster millions of men as felons stripping them of the right to bear arms.
Kind of like all the fear mongering around the government oppressing the population, then when they actually see it happening on a city wide scale they practically ignore it.
EDIT: As far as stereotypes for gun owners, we aren't all trying to open carry to legislative meetings. Lots of us are actually reasonable sane people. One would think, based off common rhetoric, that most if not all gun owners would be Republicans, but that's certainly not the case. Most of us owners support responsible ownership, we however don't get the airtime the gun nuts do. That being said, I'm still a "cold dead hands" type person when it comes to total disarmament.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
You guys are missing the point. The question that started this discussion was:
On March 25 2015 13:56 Aveng3r wrote:
Guy on deadspin writes "shouldn't cops have to treat those that they shoot?"
Kinda seems like a decent idea. has a motion like this ever been passed around congress?
Then Sermakola made it into a "cops have to kill suspects as effective as they can to keep us all safe, because fuck suspects"
So please stop discussing "total disarmament" or some kind of ridiculous straw man and focus on the brought up issue: should police serve and protect, even criminals and suspects?
|
On March 26 2015 09:00 puerk wrote:You guys are missing the point. The question that started this discussion was: Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 13:56 Aveng3r wrote:
Guy on deadspin writes "shouldn't cops have to treat those that they shoot?"
Kinda seems like a decent idea. has a motion like this ever been passed around congress? Then Sermakola made it into a "cops have to kill suspects as effective as they can to keep us all safe, because fuck suspects" So please stop discussing "total disarmament" or some kind of ridiculous straw man and focus on the brought up issue: should police serve and protect, even criminals and suspects?
I already agreed with that sentiment. Serma's comment was obviously ridiculous. My comment was on the 'gun culture' stuff. Just reminding those that wish to paint with a broad brush that all American gun owners don't think the same (even if we all agree we are never going to be 'gun-free').
I didn't notice this part of it though....
They're first responders as it is and the shit they see from that is half the reason why they're how they are today.
People who say this fail to realize the 'shit they (cops) see' is the same shit the residents of the neighborhood see every day and night. Except they most likely don't have a gun, badge, company car, back up, and a justice system on their side. They are just out their alone with whatever family they have.
So trying to play the pity/scared child card is tired and pathetic. If they are so scared they shouldn't be cops, and they should stay the hell out of those neighborhoods.
Going to the neighborhoods/situations that "scare" them so much then gunning down people and/or watching them die is not helping anyone. Hanging it on an excuse of justified fear is absolutely absurd.
|
Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the Enemy
This is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass.
|
On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass.
he's still an american soldier, even if he did do those things, it's still within US interest to get him back...
|
|
|
On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass.
He's lucky they aren't pushing for the death penalty. His desertion led to the release of 5 known terrorists.
I'm surprised they aren't hitting him with a treason charge as well as desertion.
|
On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass.
Yes, the very same person that the Republicans said should be brought home only to turn into stark disapproval when Obama actually did it.
Just another day in Washington.
|
On March 26 2015 09:27 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. he's still an american soldier, even if he did do those things, it's still within US interest to get him back...
Get him back by trading 5 terrorists, who btw went right back to join the terror networks, without notifying the US Congress? And let's remember all the fanfare which took place soon after his trade... You've got to kidding me. Not to mention that people died looking for his deserted ass.
|
On March 26 2015 09:32 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:27 wei2coolman wrote:On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. he's still an american soldier, even if he did do those things, it's still within US interest to get him back... Get him back by trading 5 terrorists, who btw went right back to join the terror networks, without notifying the US Congress? And let's remember all the fanfare which took place soon after his trade... You've got to kidding me. Not to mention that people died looking for his deserted ass.
They should send him back. I'm sure ISIS or whoever would be happy to have him as a guest.
|
On March 26 2015 09:30 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. He's lucky they aren't pushing for the death penalty. His desertion led to the release of 5 known terrorists. I'm surprised they aren't hitting him with a treason charge as well as desertion.
Don't talk about things you obviously don't understand. This is the talk of someone who has no idea how the legal charge of treason works at all. Desertion is going to be hard enough to prove on its own lol.....it's as though you think the standard goes "guilty until proven innocent."
|
United States43590 Posts
On March 26 2015 09:32 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:27 wei2coolman wrote:On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. he's still an american soldier, even if he did do those things, it's still within US interest to get him back... Get him back by trading 5 terrorists, who btw went right back to join the terror networks, without notifying the US Congress? And let's remember all the fanfare which took place soon after his trade... You've got to kidding me. Not to mention that people died looking for his deserted ass.
Can you rule out the fact that whatever fucked up mental issues that led him to think leaving the base was a good idea was caused by being a kid sent out to a war in Afghanistan? Cause most American civilians don't wander off of Afghan army bases. When you put those kids out there you have a responsibility to bring them back.
Maybe this is a controversial opinion but I think that the best thing you can do for your troops, to really show them you understand their sacrifices, is to stop asking them to make so many damn sacrifices. Failing that you accept that a lot of them are gonna come back with PTSD, a horrifying number are gonna try and kill themselves, they're going to form most of the homeless population and a lot of them will have a lot of trouble reintegrating back into civilian life. You accept all that stuff and you decide if you still want to send them to war. If you still want to then that's the price of admission and you better take care of them afterwards. You can't have it both ways, you can't blame them for the things you (the American voting public) did to them.
|
On March 26 2015 09:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:32 jellyjello wrote:On March 26 2015 09:27 wei2coolman wrote:On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. he's still an american soldier, even if he did do those things, it's still within US interest to get him back... Get him back by trading 5 terrorists, who btw went right back to join the terror networks, without notifying the US Congress? And let's remember all the fanfare which took place soon after his trade... You've got to kidding me. Not to mention that people died looking for his deserted ass. Can you rule out the fact that whatever fucked up mental issues that led him to think leaving the base was a good idea was caused by being a kid sent out to a war in Afghanistan? Cause most American civilians don't wander off of Afghan army bases. When you put those kids out there you have a responsibility to bring them back.
Not arguing that he should have been brought back. There was not much to content against the possibility that he was being tortured by the taliban. However, it is the extend to which this Obama admin resourced to secure Bergdahl that I have a problem with. You don't trade 5 terrorists for a deserter (if proven guilty, which is highly likely) and then justify it as announcing him as someone who "served with honor and distinction".
|
why did he leave the base?
|
On March 26 2015 09:44 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:37 KwarK wrote:On March 26 2015 09:32 jellyjello wrote:On March 26 2015 09:27 wei2coolman wrote:On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. he's still an american soldier, even if he did do those things, it's still within US interest to get him back... Get him back by trading 5 terrorists, who btw went right back to join the terror networks, without notifying the US Congress? And let's remember all the fanfare which took place soon after his trade... You've got to kidding me. Not to mention that people died looking for his deserted ass. Can you rule out the fact that whatever fucked up mental issues that led him to think leaving the base was a good idea was caused by being a kid sent out to a war in Afghanistan? Cause most American civilians don't wander off of Afghan army bases. When you put those kids out there you have a responsibility to bring them back. Not arguing that he should have been brought back. There was not much to content against the possibility that he was being tortured by the taliban. However, it is the extend to which this Obama admin resourced to secure Bergdahl that I have a problem with. You don't trade 5 terrorists for a deserter (if proven guilty, which is highly likely) and then justify it as announcing him as someone who "served with honor and distinction".
do you have info that we don't? cuz chances are more likely that he won't even see court, and probably get a dishonorable discharge. Just because you're charged, doesn't mean you'll go to court.
|
On March 26 2015 08:10 Paljas wrote:
10000 people being killed by guns every year isnt just a stereotype anymore
and i still think that racists sterotypes against a oppressd minority are clearly worse than gun culture stereotypes, whatever these are.
Living in a rural area where murders are rare and helping to protect the environment? Yeah let's go with that 
|
On March 26 2015 09:36 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 09:30 Millitron wrote:On March 26 2015 09:22 jellyjello wrote:Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion and Misbehavior Before the EnemyThis is the guy who Susan Rice described as "served with honor and distinction"? The same guy the US traded 5 known terrorists for, which the current President defended as he would do it again if given the same opportunity? How ridiculous. The whole prisoner swap was nothing more than a political stun by the Obama administration, and it has now come back to bite them in the ass. He's lucky they aren't pushing for the death penalty. His desertion led to the release of 5 known terrorists. I'm surprised they aren't hitting him with a treason charge as well as desertion. Don't talk about things you obviously don't understand. This is the talk of someone who has no idea how the legal charge of treason works at all. Desertion is going to be hard enough to prove on its own lol.....it's as though you think the standard goes "guilty until proven innocent."
Court martials are much harsher than civilian trials. They have much less trouble convicting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dHObZwZ.png)
