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On February 02 2015 08:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:Not to say that I don't understand the apathy people feel regarding global warming (or anything, really) - but at least feel apathetic because you feel powerless to change anything, not because you don't care about the people who can be affected. Stating "we'll be fine" indicates the latter, because yes, you personally will be fine, but literally hundreds of millions of people are looking to be affected in very negative ways by even moderate global warming predictions.
no, i pretty much don't care about the people who can be affected... it's not like this is the only hugely harmful issue affecting a large percentage of the global population. i'm fine with misanthropy, even if it came out of rationalizing powerlessness. i see no use for impotent empathy; i'm highly cynical with regards to "you have the power" campaigns and charities that encourage lazy and ineffective attempts at fixing things; and even if i had the power to change things on a significant scale, i'd still have to play favorites and only help a select slice of the population...
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On February 02 2015 12:38 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 08:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:Not to say that I don't understand the apathy people feel regarding global warming (or anything, really) - but at least feel apathetic because you feel powerless to change anything, not because you don't care about the people who can be affected. Stating "we'll be fine" indicates the latter, because yes, you personally will be fine, but literally hundreds of millions of people are looking to be affected in very negative ways by even moderate global warming predictions. no, i pretty much don't care about the people who can be affected... it's not like this is the only hugely harmful issue affecting a large percentage of the global population. i'm fine with misanthropy, even if it came out of rationalizing powerlessness.
Well at least you admit and are open about being a sociopath.
That's something, I guess.
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better than being a hypocritical (or at best logically inconsistent), impotent empathic being in my eyes. i'm still somewhat of a "help everyone" liberal type deep down, but i'm so opportunistic that i'd only support efforts along those lines if i have a high degree of certainty of efficacy (and i'm in a position where my "support" might actually mean something). intentions are nothing to me, consequences are everything.
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and people who purport to care about things across the globe that they scarcely understand usually disgust me, e.g. current issues in the middle east, china, developing nations, etc. the people who talk about that shit usually do absolutely nothing relevant with regards to the actual happenings and simply use their opinions to feel self-righteous, which is entirely abhorrent (read: all of the commenters on /r/worldnews and those types of people)
EDIT: i would actually like to note my own hypocrisy at this moment, because i'm anxious for someone to bite onto this argument so i can continue it, even though it's mostly useless. though i guess i can rationalize it by thinking that if i can convince someone they're an impotent opinion-holder rather than a effective one, that's a victory in my book. i don't even think most self-righteous opinion-holders are deluded into thinking their opinions matter, but the important fact that their opinions really don't matter rarely get brought to the forefront of their conscious thought.
tl;dr metaopinions on impotence > impotent opinions IMO
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On February 02 2015 12:47 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
better than being a hypocritical (or at best logically inconsistent), impotent empathic being in my eyes. i'm still somewhat of a "help everyone" liberal type deep down, but i'm so opportunistic that i'd only support efforts along those lines if i have a high degree of certainty of efficacy (and i'm in a position where my "support" might actually mean something). intentions are nothing to me, consequences are everything.
Look! A practical liberal! You're quite the rare breed.
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Just go all the way and say that opinions don't matter because opinions never affect actions.
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On February 02 2015 12:47 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
better than being a hypocritical (or at best logically inconsistent),
Better to be a sociopath than a hypocrite? When did being a hypocrite become the worst thing a man can be?
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Since when does being powerless make one a hypocrite? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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President Barack Obama's fiscal 2016 budget proposes a 19 percent tax on the future foreign earnings of companies based in the United States and a one-time 14 percent tax on roughly $2 trillion of profits being held offshore, the White House said on Sunday.
"This transition tax would mean that companies have to pay U.S. tax right now on the $2 trillion they already have overseas, rather than being able to delay paying any U.S. tax indefinitely," a White House official said.
Revenues from the one-time tax would be used to fund projects to fix crumbling U.S. infrastructure and fill the projected shortfall in the Highway Trust Fund.
"Unlike a voluntary repatriation holiday, which the president opposes and which would lose revenue, the president’s proposed transition tax is a one-time, mandatory tax on previously untaxed foreign earnings, regardless of whether the earnings are repatriated," the official added.
The U.S. corporate tax rate is currently 35 percent, but loopholes allow many major corporations to avoid paying U.S. taxes altogether. Under current policies, foreign corporate earnings can be held offshore for years if they are classified as indefinitely invested abroad.
Obama’s proposal is aimed at closing that tax loophole. His administration has long been critical of practices by U.S. companies that it views as avoiding tax responsibilities at home. In 2013, the president proposed a similar plan that would cut the corporate tax rate to 28 percent as part of a grand bargain to bring profits home.
The 2016 budget, which is set for release on Monday, requires passage from Congress to take effect, and approval by the Republican-controlled legislature is unlikely. Republican response to the proposal has been lukewarm so far.
Source
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On February 02 2015 13:47 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 12:47 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
better than being a hypocritical (or at best logically inconsistent), Better to be a sociopath than a hypocrite? When did being a hypocrite become the worst thing a man can be?
I like honest sociopaths more than I like hypocrites.
Happy Birthday, btw.
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On February 02 2015 13:46 IgnE wrote:
Just go all the way and say that opinions don't matter because opinions never affect actions.
that's not a logical extension of what i've said. most opinions expressed on the internet though, do not reflect meaningful action
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On February 02 2015 13:48 IgnE wrote:
Since when does being powerless make one a hypocrite? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
being powerless and flaunting your opinions as if they mean or do anything is pretty hypocritical (or maybe the better word is ironic?) to me. at least talk to someone with power who sympathizes with your position rather than random people who disagree with you and are likely impotent with respect to the object of your opinions anyway
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On February 02 2015 13:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +President Barack Obama's fiscal 2016 budget proposes a 19 percent tax on the future foreign earnings of companies based in the United States and a one-time 14 percent tax on roughly $2 trillion of profits being held offshore, the White House said on Sunday.
"This transition tax would mean that companies have to pay U.S. tax right now on the $2 trillion they already have overseas, rather than being able to delay paying any U.S. tax indefinitely," a White House official said.
Revenues from the one-time tax would be used to fund projects to fix crumbling U.S. infrastructure and fill the projected shortfall in the Highway Trust Fund.
"Unlike a voluntary repatriation holiday, which the president opposes and which would lose revenue, the president’s proposed transition tax is a one-time, mandatory tax on previously untaxed foreign earnings, regardless of whether the earnings are repatriated," the official added.
The U.S. corporate tax rate is currently 35 percent, but loopholes allow many major corporations to avoid paying U.S. taxes altogether. Under current policies, foreign corporate earnings can be held offshore for years if they are classified as indefinitely invested abroad.
Obama’s proposal is aimed at closing that tax loophole. His administration has long been critical of practices by U.S. companies that it views as avoiding tax responsibilities at home. In 2013, the president proposed a similar plan that would cut the corporate tax rate to 28 percent as part of a grand bargain to bring profits home.
The 2016 budget, which is set for release on Monday, requires passage from Congress to take effect, and approval by the Republican-controlled legislature is unlikely. Republican response to the proposal has been lukewarm so far. Source
Silly. They should be trying to close real loopholes rather than trying to tax what are basically foreign businesses.
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On February 02 2015 13:47 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 12:47 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
better than being a hypocritical (or at best logically inconsistent), Better to be a sociopath than a hypocrite? When did being a hypocrite become the worst thing a man can be?
i just think wastes of time are wastes of time... being somewhat sociopathic allows me to clear my conscience and brush off discussions about stuff i vaguely care about but in a completely useless way, which again, is a waste of time to me. selective empathy is a virtue in my eyes, my gut feelings do not always lead to good or useful or meaningful things, even though i am a naturally empathetic person.
not saying it's the worst thing to waste time on impotent opinions, but i'd rather not (and again i'm being somewhat hypocritical here). i just see this as a form of intellectual honesty to not delude myself into thinking such opinions are meaningful without power or a logistical path to power in mind
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On February 02 2015 08:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:
the point is it's impossible to be a: accepting of man made global warming and aware of its possible global consequences, b: caring about people outside your personal sphere and c: maintaining the notion that "we'll be fine". As a well educated, reasonably wealthy Norwegian with a stable, caring family and a healthy network surrounding me, there's little chance I'm gonna be personally affected by anything short of the apocalypse. But that doesn't mean I can just dismiss global warming, IS, rise of anti-semitism and racism throughout Europe, or all the various other global threats to people's well being.
Or, I can, but then I have to accept that I'm a selfish, hedonistic jerk. Frankly, that idea is growing on me- but at least I can support policy changes that can make things slightly better for people elsewhere at virtually no cost to myself. Not to say that I don't understand the apathy people feel regarding global warming (or anything, really) - but at least feel apathetic because you feel powerless to change anything, not because you don't care about the people who can be affected. Stating "we'll be fine" indicates the latter, because yes, you personally will be fine, but literally hundreds of millions of people are looking to be affected in very negative ways by even moderate global warming predictions.
I currently fall into the A and C demographic. Yes, climate change is real. I think we will be fine because we can fight tomorrow's problems with tomorrow's technology(I think not teaching climate studies in school is idiotic). I also think humans and a vast majority of nature will be able to adapt to our worst case model of 4 degrees hotter and 1.5m higher sea levels by 2100.
Me and you are definitely on the same page, I get asked "what if you weren't you?" way too often.
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On February 02 2015 14:08 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 13:48 IgnE wrote:
Since when does being powerless make one a hypocrite? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. being powerless and flaunting your opinions as if they mean or do anything is pretty hypocritical (or maybe the better word is ironic?) to me. at least talk to someone with power who sympathizes with your position rather than random people who disagree with you and are likely impotent with respect to the object of your opinions anyway
Let me call up the president then and get off this internet messageboard.
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On February 02 2015 14:18 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 14:08 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 02 2015 13:48 IgnE wrote:
Since when does being powerless make one a hypocrite? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. being powerless and flaunting your opinions as if they mean or do anything is pretty hypocritical (or maybe the better word is ironic?) to me. at least talk to someone with power who sympathizes with your position rather than random people who disagree with you and are likely impotent with respect to the object of your opinions anyway Let me call up the president then and get off this internet messageboard.
you say that sarcastically, but if you were someone who had clout with the president, calling him up would obviously be a more meaningful action than expressing your opinions here (though obama himself might not have the power with respect to whatever you care about, depending on what you care about)
remember all that "write your congressman" crap from civics? it works for some people in some places
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Well thanks, I didn't know that it would be more effective to call up the President if I were his friend then talk to you on TL. This has been a productive conversation.
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no prob buddy. i hope you keep this logic in mind in the future to waste less of your own time rather than just using it to mock me~
i mean my main point is evangelizing the virtue of not engaging in pointless arguments, and with that i'll be done with this thread. i just have to say personally, i'm pretty glad i don't engage in as many political / current events discussions as i did, say, 3-7 years ago. here, i got kind of baited by hannahbelle's terrible logic, kind of a relapse so to speak
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Plenty of point to the arguments though.
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EPT
