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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-13 01:20:09
December 13 2014 01:18 GMT
#30341
i don't think rush to sell will create any sort of panic style market movement. for one, it is a gradual phenomenon, and second, old people may smooth consumption with their house values, but they do this without literally dumping the houses into the housing market. they just put them into the financial system as assets in exchange of fixed income or whatnot arrangement with banks.

there is also no clear danger of a sudden and drastic change of future expectations with respect to housing prices. without future expectation shock there is unlikely to be a sell panic. people still see housing, particularly housing in big and good cities, as good stores of value.

real estate is also more international now, with a lot of buy side money from east asia and other growth regions.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
December 13 2014 01:37 GMT
#30342
On December 13 2014 09:26 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2014 04:49 IgnE wrote:
Because they have no retirement savings. Reverse mortgages are booming.

Reverse mortgages are a wat tot make your bricks liquid that doesn't really have to do a whole lot with the amount of retirement savings you have.


Yes, yes it does. If you have no savings except some equity in your house then you take out a reverse mortgage to get enough money to live on. If you are retired with a reverse mortgage you aren't going to pay it off. By the time you die your bank gets the house.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-13 01:51:58
December 13 2014 01:50 GMT
#30343
WASHINGTON (AP) — When Republicans take control of Congress next month, top on their agenda will be undoing environmental regulations they claim will harm the economy, chief among them President Barack Obama's plans to limit heat-trapping carbon pollution from coal-fired power plants.

The results of a new poll from the Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research and Yale University show their priorities may be misplaced.

Six in 10 Americans, including half of all Republicans, said they support regulation of carbon dioxide pollution, although they weren't asked how. Nearly half of Republicans said the U.S. should lead the global fight to curb climate change, even if it means taking action when other countries do not. And majorities across party lines said environmental protections "improve economic growth and provide new jobs" in the long run, a popular Obama administration talking point.

The picture of Republicans that emerges from the poll runs counter to the monolithic view of Republicans in Washington as a global warming-doubting, anti-environmental regulation party keen on attacking Obama's environmental plans. And the results come as the Obama administration continues to forge ahead on its own with aggressive plans on climate change, even if it means going head-to-head with a Republican-controlled Congress that could derail the administration's environmental legacy.

"The American people have made it clear they know climate change is real, and that we can protect the planet and grow the economy at the same time," Frank Benenati, a White House spokesman, said after reviewing the poll results. "Climate deniers in Congress and those who would try to block efforts to address the climate challenge would do well to listen."

Still, climate change itself ranked near the bottom of environmental problems tested in the poll.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-13 02:00:16
December 13 2014 02:00 GMT
#30344
The death of Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old Cleveland boy who was shot last month by a police officer, has been ruled a homicide by the Cuyahoga County medical examiner.

Tamir suffered gunshot wounds to the torso and suffered injures of "major vessel, intestines and pelvis," the examiner's report said.

Tamir, who was carrying a replica gun, was shot by rookie Officer Timothy Loehmann on Nov. 23. We reported at the time:

"Police responded to a 911 call complaining of a 'guy' who was pointing a 'probably fake' gun at people near a playground. Police say when they got to the scene, they asked the boy to put his hands up and he instead reached for his waistband.

"A police officer fired two rounds, hitting Tamir Rice's torso. It turned out he was carrying a replica gun that fires plastic BBs. Rice died at a local hospital on Sunday."


Surveillance video, which the police released, shows Tamir was shot within seconds of a patrol car stopping near him. A graphic video of the encounter can be seen here.

Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolman's Association, said today that the officers involved in the fatal shooting were not informed by the dispatcher that the suspect's gun might be a toy or he a child.

Tamir's family last week filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city of Cleveland and the police department.

A grand jury will now consider whether to bring charges against the officer.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 13 2014 02:58 GMT
#30345
On December 13 2014 09:18 Nyxisto wrote:
But this isn't really an indicator if a country is crisis proof or not. Quite the contrary actually if these jobs are created purely by money printing, debt and social inequality. Increase of nominal values just looks nice but don't actually help anyone. The talk of Europe being in a worse situation seems a little weird. That a lot of people in Spain are unemployed does not change the fact that they have healthcare and a place to live. How is that better than having two jobs in the US and having none of it?

How does the average American college student profit from the amazing economic growth if their college tuition and rent rises five times faster than their income?

The fundamentals for the US are pretty good compared to the Eurozone. Your demographics are worse, huge structural imbalances, poorly capitalized financial institutions (and a joke political system that pretended they were well capitalized), high housing prices that will fall, and a dearth of investment in Germany (not sure anywhere else).
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 13 2014 03:47 GMT
#30346
On December 13 2014 09:18 Nyxisto wrote:
But this isn't really an indicator if a country is crisis proof or not. Quite the contrary actually if these jobs are created purely by money printing, debt and social inequality. Increase of nominal values just looks nice but don't actually help anyone. The talk of Europe being in a worse situation seems a little weird. That a lot of people in Spain are unemployed does not change the fact that they have healthcare and a place to live. How is that better than having two jobs in the US and having none of it?

How does the average American college student profit from the amazing economic growth if their college tuition and rent rises five times faster than their income?


healthcare and places to live are not economic value creation activities per se. the U.S. is a high tech, entrepreneur driven economy. that is what creates economic growth and value.

of course, we'd like less wasteful heatlhcare and less financialization for the sake of financialization, but the u.s. economy is fundamentally the most sound in the world.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
December 13 2014 04:03 GMT
#30347
Well I personally like to think that the economy is supposed to exist for the people, and not the other way around. If economic indicators don't really reflect anymore how well the majority of people is doing when it comes to fundamental needs then I don't know how relevant these indicators are.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 13 2014 04:13 GMT
#30348
On December 13 2014 13:03 Nyxisto wrote:
Well I personally like to think that the economy is supposed to exist for the people, and not the other way around. If economic indicators don't really reflect anymore how well the majority of people is doing when it comes to fundamental needs then I don't know how relevant these indicators are.

Economic indicators do tell you how the general public is doing.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-13 04:59:20
December 13 2014 04:47 GMT
#30349
On December 13 2014 13:03 Nyxisto wrote:
Well I personally like to think that the economy is supposed to exist for the people, and not the other way around. If economic indicators don't really reflect anymore how well the majority of people is doing when it comes to fundamental needs then I don't know how relevant these indicators are.

i agree, but the discussion was about long term economic health and crisis. it is easier to create a social welfare system, or effect some reforms that focus on distribution, make social investments, when you have a productive economy in support of it.

the problem of making growth equitable and across diverse cultural and social conditions is not simple. it'll have to involve development of the productive capacity of 'the poor' and/or forms of economy that involve them. for all the black and white this problem tends to be rendered in left-right politics, there is a lot of space for creative, non-political solutions.

but of course politics is highly important too.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
December 13 2014 04:47 GMT
#30350
A grand jury will now consider whether to bring charges against the officer.


I don't think I'll be holding my breath on this one...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2014 06:29 GMT
#30351
The United Nations climate change talks in Lima, which opened on Dec. 1 with hopes for new momentum, officially ended on Friday without much progress on the question that has stymied negotiators for years: who should bear the burden of reducing greenhouse gas emissions?

"We are almost there," Peruvian Environment Minister Manuel Pulgar-Vidal told delegates. "I am sure we will find solutions." The talks had been due to end on Friday afternoon but were extended to last overnight.

China and the United States announced a bilateral climate change pact last month, raising expectations for the Lima talks, which focused on the scope of pledges that all 190 members states of the U.N. are due to make in 2015 to tackle global warming. Those national pledges, due by an informal deadline of March 31, 2015, will be the basis of a deal to be agreed on in Paris in December 2015 and are meant as a step toward reversing rising world greenhouse gas emissions.

Lack of progress in Lima throws new doubt on what can be accomplished in Paris. In a brief visit to Lima, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry urged governments to stop bickering over who should do what to rein in the carbon pollution blamed for heating the planet. "Pretty simple, folks: It's everyone's responsibility, because it's the net amount of carbon that matters, not each country's share," Kerry said Thursday.

Rich countries like the U.S. acquired wealth through fossil-fuel dependent industrialization, contributing the lion’s share of historial greenhouse gas emissions Emerging economies, meanwhile, are also relying on cheap fossil fuels to grow and are contributing an increasing proportion of current emissions. Some developing countries have urged wealthier counterparts to reduce their emissions first, and to contribute to a global fund aimed at helping poorer nations adapt to the unpredictable weather and rising oceans brought on by climate change.

Latin American countries came under criticism in Lima for their ambitious plans to increase production and use of fossil fuels. Brazil and Mexico defended their stance during the Lima talks. They say they are also making large investments in renewable energy and reducing deforestation, which can counter the effects of greenhouse gas emissions. Trees breathe in carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen, so they are important bargaining chips for countries seeking to emit more greenhouse gases.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
December 13 2014 07:40 GMT
#30352
On December 13 2014 13:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2014 13:03 Nyxisto wrote:
Well I personally like to think that the economy is supposed to exist for the people, and not the other way around. If economic indicators don't really reflect anymore how well the majority of people is doing when it comes to fundamental needs then I don't know how relevant these indicators are.

Economic indicators do tell you how the general public is doing.


to some extent, yes.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Alex1Sun
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
494 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-13 09:01:45
December 13 2014 08:49 GMT
#30353
On December 13 2014 16:40 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2014 13:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 13 2014 13:03 Nyxisto wrote:
Well I personally like to think that the economy is supposed to exist for the people, and not the other way around. If economic indicators don't really reflect anymore how well the majority of people is doing when it comes to fundamental needs then I don't know how relevant these indicators are.

Economic indicators do tell you how the general public is doing.


to some extent, yes.

Another good solution is (in addition to purely economic indicators) to also look at actual tangible social progress: http://www.socialprogressimperative.org/data/spi This is a really nice index, you can check how exactly it is measured, how accurate it is and check its individual components. It appears to be a rather comprehensive and rigorous measure. USA according to the social progress index is overall worse than Northern Europe, but better than Southern Europe.
This is not Warcraft in space!
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11998 Posts
December 13 2014 09:48 GMT
#30354
On December 13 2014 15:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The United Nations climate change talks in Lima, which opened on Dec. 1 with hopes for new momentum, officially ended on Friday without much progress on the question that has stymied negotiators for years: who should bear the burden of reducing greenhouse gas emissions?

"We are almost there," Peruvian Environment Minister Manuel Pulgar-Vidal told delegates. "I am sure we will find solutions." The talks had been due to end on Friday afternoon but were extended to last overnight.

China and the United States announced a bilateral climate change pact last month, raising expectations for the Lima talks, which focused on the scope of pledges that all 190 members states of the U.N. are due to make in 2015 to tackle global warming. Those national pledges, due by an informal deadline of March 31, 2015, will be the basis of a deal to be agreed on in Paris in December 2015 and are meant as a step toward reversing rising world greenhouse gas emissions.

Lack of progress in Lima throws new doubt on what can be accomplished in Paris. In a brief visit to Lima, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry urged governments to stop bickering over who should do what to rein in the carbon pollution blamed for heating the planet. "Pretty simple, folks: It's everyone's responsibility, because it's the net amount of carbon that matters, not each country's share," Kerry said Thursday.

Rich countries like the U.S. acquired wealth through fossil-fuel dependent industrialization, contributing the lion’s share of historial greenhouse gas emissions Emerging economies, meanwhile, are also relying on cheap fossil fuels to grow and are contributing an increasing proportion of current emissions. Some developing countries have urged wealthier counterparts to reduce their emissions first, and to contribute to a global fund aimed at helping poorer nations adapt to the unpredictable weather and rising oceans brought on by climate change.

Latin American countries came under criticism in Lima for their ambitious plans to increase production and use of fossil fuels. Brazil and Mexico defended their stance during the Lima talks. They say they are also making large investments in renewable energy and reducing deforestation, which can counter the effects of greenhouse gas emissions. Trees breathe in carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen, so they are important bargaining chips for countries seeking to emit more greenhouse gases.


Source


"Reducing deforestating can counter the effects of greenhouse gas emissions." People suck at maths. If you are destroying less forests, that still means that you destroy forests, which is an effect that increases the effects of greenhouse gas emissions due to less trees being around. To actually counter greenhouse gases, you would need negative deforestation, or actually plant new trees instead of just burning less of them.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
December 13 2014 15:17 GMT
#30355
Alright guys, I've followed politics and this thread for quite some time and after the congress live feeds I was kinda of infuriated on how they balanced things. I made this in that kind of temper, obviously it's not the best way to approach it, but what if we started doing something like this in the future with the obvious taxes needed to be taken out.

"As a U.S Citizen, why am I not allowed to choose where I want my hard earned taxed money to be distributed? My petition deals with citizen rights. We elect our congress to vote on our behalf, but when congress votes against what really matters it makes me question my faith in this system."

http://wh.gov/i16KT

Note: I used to be a web developer at the Library of Congress. I got paid shitty while congress members make six figures easily by sticking their fingers up their ass and smearing it on our budgets.
Life?
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
December 13 2014 17:11 GMT
#30356
If you're not making a ton of money already you will clearly be worse off in that system. It seems to be massively regressive.
日本語が分かりますか
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
December 13 2014 18:03 GMT
#30357
Andrew Cuomo Meets With Admitted Former Crack Dealer Jay-Z to Discuss Police Policy


When you need advice on a subject, you go to an expert.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-N.Y.) did just that when he had a policy meeting on the subject of how cops enforce the laws with hip-hop mogul Jay Z — who earned most of his expertise in crime as a crack dealer.

In addition to his rap boasts about drug dealing, his criminal justice experience includes being charged with stabbing people and bashing them on their heads with bottles at his favorite city nightclubs.


Source



Yeah... Not racial at all... So oblivious...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2014 18:59 GMT
#30358
WASHINGTON (AP) — First it was objections by House Democrats that stood in the way of passage of a $1.1 trillion catchall spending bill. Now it's the Senate Republicans' turn, specifically Ted Cruz of Texas and Mike Lee of Utah.

The two lawmakers demanded a vote Friday night on a proposal to cut funds from the bill that could be used to implement President Barack Obama's new immigration policy, ending any chance the measure could clear the Senate and be sent to the White House with a minimum of fuss.

Officials in both parties said the bill remains on track for clearance by early next week. Even so, the move led Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., to abandon plans to adjourn the Senate for the weekend, and raised the possibility of a test vote on the spending bill shortly after midnight on Saturday.

Senate Republican leaders have pledged to challenge Obama's immigration policy early in the new year, after the GOP takes control of the Senate. But Cruz suggested they shouldn't be entirely trusted to keep their pledge.

"We will learn soon enough if those statements are genuine and sincere," he said, in a clear reference to Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell and Speaker John Boehner.

Ironically, Cruz and Lee played a major role in events slightly more than a year ago that led to a partial government shutdown — an event McConnell, Boehner and most Republicans have vowed to avoid repeating. This time, Republican officials said they may have inadvertently given Reid an opening to win confirmation for several of Obama's nominees that might otherwise have languished.

With the end of the two-year Congress approaching, Reid is pressing to confirm about 20 Obama nominees to fill posts such as surgeon general, director of the Social Security Administration and federal judgeships.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
December 13 2014 19:03 GMT
#30359
On December 13 2014 17:49 Alex1Sun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2014 16:40 Doublemint wrote:
On December 13 2014 13:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 13 2014 13:03 Nyxisto wrote:
Well I personally like to think that the economy is supposed to exist for the people, and not the other way around. If economic indicators don't really reflect anymore how well the majority of people is doing when it comes to fundamental needs then I don't know how relevant these indicators are.

Economic indicators do tell you how the general public is doing.


to some extent, yes.

Another good solution is (in addition to purely economic indicators) to also look at actual tangible social progress: http://www.socialprogressimperative.org/data/spi This is a really nice index, you can check how exactly it is measured, how accurate it is and check its individual components. It appears to be a rather comprehensive and rigorous measure. USA according to the social progress index is overall worse than Northern Europe, but better than Southern Europe.

that's a pretty cool site, thanks
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 13 2014 19:33 GMT
#30360
On December 14 2014 03:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
Andrew Cuomo Meets With Admitted Former Crack Dealer Jay-Z to Discuss Police Policy


When you need advice on a subject, you go to an expert.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-N.Y.) did just that when he had a policy meeting on the subject of how cops enforce the laws with hip-hop mogul Jay Z — who earned most of his expertise in crime as a crack dealer.

In addition to his rap boasts about drug dealing, his criminal justice experience includes being charged with stabbing people and bashing them on their heads with bottles at his favorite city nightclubs.


Source

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9zM6EUwAc

Yeah... Not racial at all... So oblivious...

Sorry, what are you complaining about? I couldn't tell what the two guests were saying while they were yelling. Was it something in there?
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