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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1516

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 11 2014 22:46 GMT
#30301
On December 12 2014 05:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Just realized that Democrats and Conservatives are aligned to oppose this bill. The Left against gutting of Financial Reform, the Right by acceptation of amnesty. Add tot eh fact that the White House is behind Boehner in support of the bill that makes every GOP who votes in favor voting for Obama. Then there are the Blue Dogs and Moderates that lost and will be replaced by Far Right Conservatives. Who won't support any of this when they arrive in DC.

Boehner is in a pickle.

I haven't heard anything about that. What would be changed?
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5093 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-11 22:57:46
December 11 2014 22:54 GMT
#30302
On December 12 2014 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
"But even more broadly it demonstrates an approach that has characterized this administration for 6 years, which is everything, everything, everything is George W. Bush’s fault. Enough already with blaming George W. Bush for every failure of this administration,"


Seriously... Like he's not making a joke there? I don't know if there was video but he can't actually be serious with that?


This is the whole question and its answer. I find it interesting that he focused more on the deals we had with other nations than about the tactics themselves. Seems to be taking a slightly different approach when talking about this matter. Or it could just be the venue.

+ Show Spoiler +


And the Bush blame game is going on, as it always is. He's not wrong there. All these articles on Bush and Cheney, ugh.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 11 2014 22:56 GMT
#30303
On December 12 2014 05:55 Nyxisto wrote:
I find it sad that the argumentation revolves around the utility of torture in the first place. How about the argument that for a country that holds itself to higher standards than say, Iran or North Korea, torture might be off table on principle?. Because how you treat your enemies is pretty much one of the things that distinguishes the good guys from the bad guys?

we are dealing with an imperfect world in the case of interrogating terrorists trained in counter-interrogation methods. they are still combatants under capture, because information is a part of the war.


with that said, obviously not ideal, but the more severe and repeated use of these techniques were limited to a handful of very high value targets.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-11 23:02:57
December 11 2014 22:57 GMT
#30304
On December 12 2014 07:56 oneofthem wrote:
we are dealing with an imperfect world in the case of interrogating terrorists trained in counter-interrogation methods. they are still combatants under capture, because information is a part of the war.

with that said, obviously not ideal, but the more severe and repeated use of these techniques were limited to a handful of very high value targets.


Like this guy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri

I mean given the fact that all he had in common with a known terrorist was his name I guess they could have just called to check his identity, but apparently it took about half a year of torture in a CIA blacksite to figure that out. Maybe it was his extensive training in counter interrogation techniques which fooled the highly professional CIA personnel.
Chewbacca.
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3634 Posts
December 11 2014 23:05 GMT
#30305
God the Q&A part of that video was horrible. How many times does he have to say that he can't know if information gathered was a result of the use of EITs, but people subjected to EITs did indeed provide valuable information.
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
December 11 2014 23:05 GMT
#30306
On December 12 2014 07:54 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2014 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
"But even more broadly it demonstrates an approach that has characterized this administration for 6 years, which is everything, everything, everything is George W. Bush’s fault. Enough already with blaming George W. Bush for every failure of this administration,"


Seriously... Like he's not making a joke there? I don't know if there was video but he can't actually be serious with that?


This is the whole question and its answer. I find it interesting that he focused more on the deals we had with other nations than about the tactics themselves. Seems to be taking a slightly different approach when talking about this matter. Or it could just be the venue.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktc_Ze_3VZg#t=3592


And the Bush blame game is going on, as it always is. He's not wrong there. All these articles on Bush and Cheney, ugh.


I'm sorry, but any discussion of the torture that went on at Guantanamo and other locations has to include at least some discussion about the administration that it was begun under (at their approval/direction).

Trying to smear this as a Bush "blame game" is genuinely a bit silly and really kind of disingenuous.
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 11 2014 23:34 GMT
#30307
Kentucky's proposed "creationist theme park," Ark Encounter, won't receive tax incentives from the state because of potentially discriminatory hiring practices, the news website Insider Louisville reported on Wednesday.

The secretary of the state's tourism and arts cabinet sent a letter to the theme park's lawyers on Wednesday explaining the decision. The park, being built in Williamstown, Ky., may have been eligible for up to $18 million in tax breaks from the state, according to the website. But Kentucky backed out after the proprietors of Ark Encounter refused to agree to hiring practices that wouldn't discriminate on the basis of religion, the site reported.

Secretary Bob Stewart explained the hiring practices proved to be an insurmountable obstacle despite the state's support of the project since it was proposed in 2010. (Gov. Steve Beshear (D) helped unveil the proposal that year.)

"We have strongly supported this project, believing it to be a tourism attraction based on biblical themes that would create significant jobs for the community," Stewart wrote in the letter to Ark Encounter's attorney.

Stewart wrote "the Commonwealth's position hasn't changed. The applicant's position has changed."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 11 2014 23:50 GMT
#30308
On December 12 2014 08:05 Chewbacca. wrote:
God the Q&A part of that video was horrible. How many times does he have to say that he can't know if information gathered was a result of the use of EITs, but people subjected to EITs did indeed provide valuable information.

until reporters stop trying to ask a simplistic question i guess.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 12 2014 02:41 GMT
#30309
WASHINGTON -- Democrats and a handful of Republicans rebelled against the government funding bill Thursday, with a possible government shutdown looming just hours away.

Republican leaders insisted that they would not let the government run out of money at midnight, and would pass a stop-gap measure if a deal could not be reached in time.

The inelegantly named "cromnibus" appropriations bill would fund the government after current funding expires at midnight. But Democratic lawmakers revolted against the must-pass legislation because it includes riders that would gut campaign finance rules and undo provisions in the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform act designed to curb risky trading at the heart of the 2008 financial crisis.

Trouble started in the morning when the House barely cleared a procedural hurdle to advance the bill, 214 to 212. GOP leaders managed to convince just enough of their unhappy members to stay in line, but 17 Republicans nonetheless spurned their own leadership, angry that the bill isn't conservative enough.

After the rule scraped by, the White House issued a statement urging passage of the omnibus bill, while also asking for the removal of special interest riders. But it did not issue a veto threat -- a move intended to sway some Democrats to support the bill's final passage, especially the 70 Democrats who voted with Republicans to pass a similar Dodd-Frank provision last year.

The White House also expressed disapproval of a short-term funding measure for the Department of Homeland Security, which is funded under the omnibus through Feb. 27, 2015.

Despite its reservations, the White House statement made clear that President Barack Obama would sign the omnibus bill if it clears Congress.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 12 2014 02:42 GMT
#30310
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-12 03:06:50
December 12 2014 03:06 GMT
#30311
Stick a fork in Obama as he's done for. The far right which comes in January will be no fan of is and won't to afraid to torpedo any type of bill like this. And he burned his bridge with the Progressives, which he will need to favor in hopes of type of air time with the new House and Senate.

Also he just backed for the repeal of every single reform that will still in place sine the Financial Crisis.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-12 03:34:10
December 12 2014 03:24 GMT
#30312
I'm officially going to predict that there will be a massive economic meltdown before the 2016 presidential election.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
December 12 2014 03:27 GMT
#30313
Depends on the odds. There's a good chance.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 12 2014 03:44 GMT
#30314
On December 12 2014 12:24 SnipedSoul wrote:
I'm officially going to predict that there will be a massive economic meltdown before the 2016 presidential election.

In Canada, perhaps, you guys are levered to the hilt these days. Plus, cheap oil.

As for the US, things can certainly change in two year's time but I haven't been seeing any signs of worry lately.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
December 12 2014 03:45 GMT
#30315
Lol. I wish we had jonny on record back in 2007.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 12 2014 03:56 GMT
#30316
On December 12 2014 12:45 IgnE wrote:
Lol. I wish we had jonny on record back in 2007.

There were signs back in '06 / '07 that a recession was on the near horizon. For example, a flat yield curve.

If you think a recession or crisis is on the horizon now, I'd have to ask what makes you think that. Gut feeling? Or can you justify your opinion somehow?
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-12 04:04:52
December 12 2014 04:02 GMT
#30317
well the one trillion dollar of student debt are certainly going to blow up at some point.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 12 2014 04:07 GMT
#30318
On December 12 2014 13:02 Nyxisto wrote:
well the one trillion dollar of student debt are certainly going to blow at some point.

Household debt is still below pre-crisis levels, and debt service is still quite low by historical standards. If you're worried about debt, you should be far more worried about Canada than the US.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
December 12 2014 04:09 GMT
#30319
On December 12 2014 13:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2014 13:02 Nyxisto wrote:
well the one trillion dollar of student debt are certainly going to blow at some point.

Household debt is still below pre-crisis levels, and debt service is still quite low by historical standards. If you're worried about debt, you should be far more worried about Canada than the US.


While public debt has doubled since 05, which in the end is going to be paid by the tax payer anyway. That rise of debt simply seems unsustainable.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 12 2014 04:26 GMT
#30320
On December 12 2014 13:09 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2014 13:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 12 2014 13:02 Nyxisto wrote:
well the one trillion dollar of student debt are certainly going to blow at some point.

Household debt is still below pre-crisis levels, and debt service is still quite low by historical standards. If you're worried about debt, you should be far more worried about Canada than the US.


While public debt has doubled since 05, which in the end is going to be paid by the tax payer anyway. That rise of debt simply seems unsustainable.

Tax hikes and spending cuts have cut the deficit. We'll have to do more over the long run, but last I checked the Eurozone was more indebted.
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