EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 10047
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
Learning is ones own responsibility. Even if a teacher is shitty it is still the responsibility of the parent and student to learn the material. No one is going to give you a break later because you dont know shit and say it was because you had shitty teachers. The end result is still you not "knowing" anything. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12610 Posts
On March 13 2018 05:38 Sadist wrote: Nobody wants to admit that parenting is really the largest part of the problem and has a huge impact on how children view school and how well they do. Learning is ones own responsibility. Even if a teacher is shitty it is still the responsibility of the parent and student to learn the material. No one is going to give you a break later because you dont know shit and say it was because you had shitty teachers. The end result is still you not "knowing" anything. Guess all these people sending their kids to private schools are really stupid then. Spending good money on that education when they could instead send their kids to shitty public schools where they'll do just as great cause they have the parenting and the Per-so-nal Res-pon-si-bi-li-ty. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18487 Posts
On March 13 2018 05:54 Sadist wrote: The private school mostly insulates them from knuckleheads. I dont see what your point is. The private school kids parents GENERALLY would have more of a vested interest in their kids education. So you're saying it's not bad schooling that causes us to trail behind oecd average, it's bad parenting? Why are parents so much worse in the US than elsewhere? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12610 Posts
On March 13 2018 05:54 Sadist wrote: The private school mostly insulates them from knuckleheads. I dont see what your point is. The private school kids parents GENERALLY would have more of a vested interest in their kids education. You're arguing that the quality of the school system is not very important to the resulting education, it's more a failure of the people. If that was the case, sending kids to private school would be a massive waste of money. Wouldn't you rather spend that money on things that are important for your life, since we've established that having a good school system isn't that important and is overcome by good parenting and personal responsibility, which are both things that you have? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Investigators believe a package bomb that killed a teenager and wounded a woman in Austin on Monday is linked to a similar bombing that killed a man elsewhere in the city this month, and they are considering whether race was a factor because all of the victims were black. Shortly after police chief Brian Manley held a news conference in which he linked the Monday morning attack that killed a 17-year-old boy and injured a woman with a 2 March attack that killed a 39-year-old man, authorities rushed to the scene of a third blast, which badly injured a woman. Authorities have not said whether the most recent blast was also caused by a package bomb or if the victim, like those killed or injured in the two confirmed bombings, is black. Austin-Travis county EMS tweeted that the woman is in her 70s and was taken to Dell Seton medical center with potentially life-threatening injuries. The explosions happened with hundreds of thousands of visitors in the city for the South by Southwest festival, and authorities urged the public to call the police if they receive any packages they are not expecting. The explosions happened far from the festival’s events, and there was no immediate word from organizers about additional safety precautions they were taking. Source | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
You are misunderstanding my argument entirely. Anyone who thinks family and home life can be solved by attacking teachers and the education system needs to get real. I grew up in a neighborhood where only a handful of 20 or 30 kids went to college. My highschool had a 50%dropout rate. Making the school "better" and attacking teachers wasnt going to solve that problem. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12610 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:10 Sadist wrote: You are misunderstanding my argument entirely. Anyone who thinks family and home life can be solved by attacking teachers and the education system needs to get real. That's very different from what you said earlier, which probably explains why you were "misunderstood"... | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:15 Nebuchad wrote: That's very different from what you said earlier, which probably explains why you were "misunderstood"... No it isnt. Whether the school "sucks" or not at the end of the day the students and parents live with the results of their kid not knowing shit. It is their responsibility to learn material. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12610 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:19 Sadist wrote: No it isnt. Whether the school "sucks" or not at the end of the day the students and parents live with the results of their kid not knowing shit. It is their responsibility to learn material. So in what way was I misunderstanding you when I said that in that case, it's a huge waste of money to send your kids to private school, since the "suckage" of the school doesn't really matter that much? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:10 Sadist wrote: I am all for adding money into education. You are misunderstanding my argument entirely. Anyone who thinks family and home life can be solved by attacking teachers and the education system needs to get real. I grew up in a neighborhood where only a handful of 20 or 30 kids went to college. My highschool had a 50%dropout rate. Making the school "better" and attacking teachers wasnt going to solve that problem. Academic (and future) success is driven by both home life and schools. But those two things are separate. A good teacher can inspire a passion for learning, and extra curriculars can keep a kid more engaged and help them develop interests. There's a lot of impact that good schools can have on a kid's trajectory in life, regardless of their situation at home. A good school can't fix that home situation, but it can help the kid in a lot of ways. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:21 Nebuchad wrote: So in what way was I misunderstanding you when I said that in that case, it's a huge waste of money to send your kids to private school, since the "suckage" of the school doesn't really matter that much? What do you think makes private schools better? Better teachers? Admins? What? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:19 Sadist wrote: No it isnt. Whether the school "sucks" or not at the end of the day the students and parents live with the results of their kid not knowing shit. It is their responsibility to learn material. Objectively true. But you ignore context, hence people "misunderstanding" you. It is also the responsibility of the school to foster the best possible environment for learning, and for empowering and inspiring students to step forward and realize their potential. There are subjects I've learned over the years where my having a great teacher and class made all the difference. Sometimes bashing your head against a book only gets you so far. Just ask yourself the simple question: if it's entirely up to the students to learn the material, why don't we then just have a system where we hand the student a textbook and tell them good luck? On March 13 2018 06:25 Sadist wrote: What do you think makes private schools better? Better teachers? Admins? What? Um, everything? They get all the money they want, so they don't have a shitty infrastructure, years-old textbooks, nonexistent extra-curriculars, etc. Is this a question? | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:22 ticklishmusic wrote: Academic (and future) success is driven by both home life and schools. But those two things are separate. A good teacher can inspire a passion for learning, and extra curriculars can keep a kid more engaged and help them develop interests. There's a lot of impact that good schools can have on a kid's trajectory in life, regardless of their situation at home. A good school can't fix that home situation, but it can help the kid in a lot of ways. Yes it can help but you are implying its the 100% the schools responsibility if kids dont succeed. I think thats bs. It still also takes a choice from the kid to buy in. Especially as they get 9lder. The number of teachers who inspire kids is few n far between. Does that mean 95% of teachers are bad? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:28 Sadist wrote: Yes it can help but you are implying its the 100% the schools responsibility if kids dont succeed. I think thats bs. It still also takes a choice from the kid to buy in. Especially as they get 9lder. The number of teachers who inspire kids is few n far between. Does that mean 95% of teachers are bad? Not one person in this thread ever said or implied such a thing. Fuck, the post you're quoting literally describes how they're both non-zero factors. Stop talking in absolutes and maybe you'll get into less stupid arguments like this one. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On March 13 2018 06:28 Sadist wrote: Yes it can help but you are implying its the 100% the schools responsibility if kids dont succeed. I think thats bs. It still also takes a choice from the kid to buy in. Especially as they get 9lder. The number of teachers who inspire kids is few n far between. Does that mean 95% of teachers are bad? I think you're trying to make some point about personal responsibility. Sure. I don't think anyone disagrees with personal and parental responsibility and initiative playing a role. The debate here is not about that, it's if schools/ the education system could be doing more to set kids up for success, and if so how? | ||
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