US Politics Mega-thread - Page 10017

On March 06 2018 03:47 LegalLord wrote:

Well you do have to consider context and speaker, that much is true. Though there are clear and unpleasant neo-Nazi underpinnings to Charlottesville that are disturbing and noteworthy, there's also a more genuine concern about that Robert E 1337 statue and its removal, plus a desire to paint all folks in that crowd with one brush and the requisite level of animosity around the fact. And though disagreements can sometimes be significant, chances are your family member is not some aggressive, irredeemable extremist who cannot be negotiated with, but rather just has different priorities and makes a decision based on priorities you didn't really see.

Those of my family that I've queried on such disagreements, there usually is a fundamental reason that while I don't agree with, explains well why they take a different view of things. The exceptions are either those who can't shut the fuck up about their politics - like those who go person-to-person at a family party to preach their shit - or those who are a genuine candidate for the next unabomber. I've actually known one of the latter (a friend, not family, though) and I'm glad not to be in contact with him anymore. However, usually when you dig into it you find that the disagreement is far more pedestrian and based far more on blowing common left/right positions out of proportion and taking disagreement far too personally.

We can look at the context in this specific case and see someone who starts with "I can't talk to anyone in my family because they're all Trump supporters and I can't reason with them!" Dig a bit deeper and you find someone who wants to stop talking to his own mother because she watches Fox News and he can't convince her to stop (a pretty standard news broadcast for right-wing views, despite its notable faults). So perhaps the statement "my brother openly shills for neo-Nazis in Charlottesville" should be taken with a wee bit of a grain of salt. After all, if Fox news is a racist, fascist hate channel (it isn't), perhaps the statement on Charlottesville is also an embellishment to justify an aggressive stance. Rules like this one aren't without exception, but this doesn't look like it's one of them.

On March 06 2018 04:02 LegalLord wrote:

This is an issue on which I expect a significant party/popular divide, like on TPP. They will show resistance and either back off when the public outcry comes, or face the wave of primary challenges that will follow. Though isn't this something that the president doesn't need to pass legislation to do? Would make challenging it an uphill battle.

On March 06 2018 03:14 LegalLord wrote:
Generally absolutes like "politics destroys families" are a great excuse for not admitting that letting politics define your own identity to the point that political disagreements are grounds for destroying family ties is what's really at fault here. I mean, if I can get along with certain family members with roots in the Ukraine, I'm sure you can manage to bridge a mere left/right divide to be a family. Some people do have the sense not to let politics dominate in their interactions if it'd be so painful, and to talk about any of the literally every other topic that there is to talk about with family. Some don't, to be fair, and that's usually the ones that come and complain about how they've stopped talking to close family and how they're all Trump-loving nincompoops.

On March 06 2018 04:10 Danglars wrote:

I’m with you on this. I also guess many people heighten the problems to support their cause. The person who bashed a fake news story at the dinner table once suddenly becomes this nonstop political talker that won’t say what him and the gf are up to these days unless it was a Trump rally. If politics is breaking up your family, maybe the problem is overvaluing politics in family relationships, and you should work on your involvement in family problems before tackling the evil parallel-universe right wingers causing the country problems.

On March 06 2018 04:26 LegalLord wrote:
Not fictional people. Just irrational ones that can't shake their pet issues and aren't able to cope well with disagreements.

On March 06 2018 04:14 kollin wrote:

If you genuinely believe politics is a vehicle to improving the material conditions of people, and you believe it is important to do this, how can you possibly overvalue politics? You're essentially accusing people of caring too much, but when you look out at and a significant number of conservatives are calling liberals a threat to the country, or a disease that needs to be wiped out, how can you possibly care too much?