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On November 15 2012 20:07 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 19:58 zalz wrote:On November 15 2012 19:53 BluePanther wrote:On November 15 2012 19:50 don_kyuhote wrote:
These kinds of events will continue to happen over there until it escalate into another Yom Kippur War-esque Israel vs. multi-muslim nation war. With Mubarak gone, I can definitely see Egypt throwing their peace treaty with Israel out the window in the near future. Doubt it. They've pledged to back it. Truth be told, the last thing that country needs right now is to get involved in an external war. They can barely keep their legitimacy at home. I'd be far more worried about Iran and the Saudis. Not that the Israelis wouldn't whoop them, but in terms of long term peace. I wouldn't worry too much about Saudi. I think the royal family is closer to Israel than they could ever publicly admit. Sure, they don't like the Israelis, and if they were all-powerful, they would eradicate every last Jew, but in reality, they are far more occupied with winning the war for Islam and defeating Iran. They need America, and they know that going against Israel in any serious fashion is not an option when the greater evil of Iran looms over them. Even with Iran out of the picture, while it might cause them to focus on the Israel issue with more gravity, I can't imagine them anything extreme at all. Risking negative relations with the U.S. while simultaneously focusing their resources on an enemy that would destroy them even if Iran for some incomprehensible reason joined the cause and worked seemlessly with them as opposed to against them.... such a hypothetical simply doesn't concern me. I'm not going to lie though, while I do follow events in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia is often not a regular topic in U.S. media unless oil is concerned, so I have a very limited picture on what I imagine the Saudi Arabian military actually consists of... in terms of numbers, technology, and loyalty/training.
The Saudi's have influence, and that's both useful and dangerous to us. We have no influence, and we use them to sorta help us out. But if we were to lose that and have it turned against us, we'd be screwed in that region. There is only so much that a military can do if you don't have someone to take over when you're done.
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On November 15 2012 20:14 OOAK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... Are you serious man ?! just this morning 3 civilians were killed from Hamas rockets. in total from the year 2000 981 civilians were killed and 17200 were injured by palastinian suicide bombers and terrorists. The difference is that plastinian terrorist are hiding behind their kids and women, in schools, in hospitals like cowards after shooting rockets to israel.
Dude you lot killed so many more Palestinians, you're denying their right to their ancestral lands in which they've lived long before the UK was pressured into giving it to the Jews, you're pretty much putting an entire people in a freaking concentration camp.
Quickly from Wikipedia: 7978 Palestinian fatalities, of which 1620 children, versus 1503 Israeli dead of which 142 children.
Palestinian freedom fighters hiding? You're throwing the entire USA modern arsenal on their wives, their kids, their houses. They have no way to resist and no where to hide. Stop acting like a freaking hypocrite and start apologising for this genocide.
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On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men....
I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so).
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On November 15 2012 20:29 Passion wrote:
Dude you lot killed so many more Palestinians, you're denying their right to their ancestral lands in which they've lived long before the UK was pressured into giving it to the Jews, you're pretty much putting an entire people in a freaking concentration camp.
Ancestral land? Are we a bunch of savages? Murdering people over land, honestly, get in the 21st century, please.
These people are condemming themselvse, and their children, to a lifetime of suffering, over land? What land? The vast majority of the Palestinians has never even seen "their" land, so what makes it theirs? Because a bunch of ancestors lived there?
I don't see you volunteering to give our land back to the Roman empire. Stop this barbaric tribalism. It's bad enough to hear it at all, but to have someone with internet buy into such a primitive mindset is idiotic.
Palestinian freedom fighters hiding? You're throwing the entire USA modern arsenal on their wives, their kids, their houses. They have no way to resist and no where to hide. Stop acting like a freaking hypocrite and start apologising for this genocide.
Hamas is well known to integrate its military assets in civillian regions.
If they park a tank or a rocket installation right next to a hospital, what Israel to do? Not fire back? They might as well surrender if they gave in to such repugnant moral blackmail.
Israel tries to avoid civillian casualites, Hamas tries to ramp up the casualties so they can be used for propaganda.
Quickly from Wikipedia: 7978 Palestinian fatalities, of which 1620 children, versus 1503 Israeli dead of which 142 children.
You dare call that a genocide?
8000/50 = 160 a year.
Smoking probably killed more Palestinians than Israel did, but I don't see you calling that a genocide, or a concentration camp. Revolting use of language which trivializes the meaning of these words to the point of being little more than political slogans.
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On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so).
I'm not sure you know how this entire conflict started... Israel just stole the Palestinian homeland. Tolerance? Restraint? You can't really be serious.
On November 15 2012 20:35 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:29 Passion wrote:
Dude you lot killed so many more Palestinians, you're denying their right to their ancestral lands in which they've lived long before the UK was pressured into giving it to the Jews, you're pretty much putting an entire people in a freaking concentration camp. Ancestral land? Are we a bunch of savages? Murdering people over land, honestly, get in the 21st century, please. These people are condemming themselvse, and their children, to a lifetime of suffering, over land? What land? The vast majority of the Palestinians has never even seen "their" land, so what makes it theirs? Because a bunch of ancestors lived there? I don't see you volunteering to give our land back to the Roman empire. Stop this barbaric tribalism. It's bad enough to hear it at all, but to have someone with internet buy into such a primitive mindset is idiotic. Show nested quote +Palestinian freedom fighters hiding? You're throwing the entire USA modern arsenal on their wives, their kids, their houses. They have no way to resist and no where to hide. Stop acting like a freaking hypocrite and start apologising for this genocide. Hamas is well known to integrate its military assets in civillian regions. If they park a tank or a rocket installation right next to a hospital, what Israel to do? Not fire back? They might as well surrender if they gave in to such repugnant moral blackmail. Israel tries to avoid civillian casualites, Hamas tries to ramp up the casualties so they can be used for propaganda. Show nested quote +Quickly from Wikipedia: 7978 Palestinian fatalities, of which 1620 children, versus 1503 Israeli dead of which 142 children. You dare call that a genocide?
Right, we were totally fine with the Nazi's taking over the Netherlands. Resistance against that regime was wrong, how dared we fight them.
Give back land to the Roman empire? Are you silly? 1st the Romans never conquered the Netherlands beyond the Rhine, second, as stated, they CONQUERED the land south of it. They were the INVADERS.
The issue perhaps isn't purely the fact that a foreign power controls your lands, though please try to reason how this would be a great, fun and nice thing. The issue rather is the utter suppression of the culture and freedom of the original inhabitants.
Hamas turned to violence as did every resistance movement in every single war. Those people are heroes. How dare you deny their right to fight for the freedom of their family, of their friends, of their people.
And more than ten times the number of under aged fatalities on the Palestine side clearly shows how hard Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties. You're such a bright guy.
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On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so).
If they have shown more tolerance, why have they killed 6,617 Palestinians in the last 12 years?
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an eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.
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On November 15 2012 20:36 Passion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so). I'm not sure you know how this entire conflict started... Israel just stole the Palestinian homeland. Tolerance? Restraint? You can't really be serious.
Well, if you put it like that, then the Israeli position is obvious isn't it?
There can be no negotiation, and Israel will not permit itself to be destroyed or abolished.
If you come into it from your angle, one where there can be no middle ground, then why should Israel seek any? You want to fight for that piece of land? Fine, says Israel, lets fight then.
Aren't you, and others like you, getting exactly what you want? A battle to the death, no negotiation.
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Thoughts and sympathy to the people dying and getting harmed in this conflict.
But when that is said..... I can pretty much only phrase it in one way: Fuck Israel, and fuck palestine. The governments of the respective countries bomb the shit out of each other - and who dies? the people. SIGH.
Look at this attack for example. I don't doubt that the dude was a treath, but children and what I'd reckon to be innocent people had to die as well. That's terrorism, but we do not define it like that - and why? Because the western countries support Israel. makes me want to vomit.
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On November 15 2012 20:40 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:36 Passion wrote:On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so). I'm not sure you know how this entire conflict started... Israel just stole the Palestinian homeland. Tolerance? Restraint? You can't really be serious. Well, if you put it like that, then the Israeli position is obvious isn't it? There can be no negotiation, and Israel will not permit itself to be destroyed or abolished. If you come into it from your angle, one where there can be no middle ground, then why should Israel seek any? You want to fight for that piece of land? Fine, says Israel, lets fight then. Aren't you, and others like you, getting exactly what you want? A battle to the death, no negotiation.
You're saying we should give these extremists what they want, because one can't reason with them?
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On November 15 2012 20:36 Passion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so). I'm not sure you know how this entire conflict started... Israel just stole the Palestinian homeland. Tolerance? Restraint? You can't really be serious. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:35 zalz wrote:On November 15 2012 20:29 Passion wrote:
Dude you lot killed so many more Palestinians, you're denying their right to their ancestral lands in which they've lived long before the UK was pressured into giving it to the Jews, you're pretty much putting an entire people in a freaking concentration camp. Ancestral land? Are we a bunch of savages? Murdering people over land, honestly, get in the 21st century, please. These people are condemming themselvse, and their children, to a lifetime of suffering, over land? What land? The vast majority of the Palestinians has never even seen "their" land, so what makes it theirs? Because a bunch of ancestors lived there? I don't see you volunteering to give our land back to the Roman empire. Stop this barbaric tribalism. It's bad enough to hear it at all, but to have someone with internet buy into such a primitive mindset is idiotic. Palestinian freedom fighters hiding? You're throwing the entire USA modern arsenal on their wives, their kids, their houses. They have no way to resist and no where to hide. Stop acting like a freaking hypocrite and start apologising for this genocide. Hamas is well known to integrate its military assets in civillian regions. If they park a tank or a rocket installation right next to a hospital, what Israel to do? Not fire back? They might as well surrender if they gave in to such repugnant moral blackmail. Israel tries to avoid civillian casualites, Hamas tries to ramp up the casualties so they can be used for propaganda. Quickly from Wikipedia: 7978 Palestinian fatalities, of which 1620 children, versus 1503 Israeli dead of which 142 children. You dare call that a genocide? And more than ten times the number of under aged fatalities on the Palestine side clearly shows how hard Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties. You're such a bright guy.
As someone who has served in the IDF during Cast Lead, you really have no idea how hard Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties. Think about it - don't you find it odd that despite having a massive arsenal, and firing into a really dense population, the casualties are relatively low? just look north to Syria to see how much death there is when the army doesn't give a fuck about casualties.
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On November 15 2012 14:34 Redox wrote:
Biased OP is biased.
In my opinion its impressive how effective and precise Israel is able to go against the leadership of those who commit terrorist attacks against it.
Key word here is "in your opinion", stop giving me shit for not waxing eloquent about how evil terrorists are, I included al-Jabari's wikipedia page.
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On November 15 2012 20:43 Passion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:40 zalz wrote:On November 15 2012 20:36 Passion wrote:On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so). I'm not sure you know how this entire conflict started... Israel just stole the Palestinian homeland. Tolerance? Restraint? You can't really be serious. Well, if you put it like that, then the Israeli position is obvious isn't it? There can be no negotiation, and Israel will not permit itself to be destroyed or abolished. If you come into it from your angle, one where there can be no middle ground, then why should Israel seek any? You want to fight for that piece of land? Fine, says Israel, lets fight then. Aren't you, and others like you, getting exactly what you want? A battle to the death, no negotiation. You're saying we should give these extremists what they want, because one can't reason with them?
no he's actually saying that based on your reasoning that israel stole the palestinian homeland and hence should have the land taken back from them there is no middle ground. so why should israel bother with negotiation or giving quarter if the only option left to them is fight for their land or give it up? hence the fight to the death
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On November 15 2012 10:36 Cush wrote:
Israel's always getting shit for defending themselves. I don't get it.
That is probably because you dont know anything about the conflict. read up on it and you will realize why so many people hate Israel. Much of what they do (the sionists) resemble what the Nazi did. I'm not saying that Hamas are good people, they have killed many civilians. But Just look at the number of deaths. Isreal have killed so many more civilians its not even fun...
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On November 15 2012 20:59 Mefano wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:36 Cush wrote:
Israel's always getting shit for defending themselves. I don't get it. That is probably because you dont know anything about the conflict. read up on it and you will realize why so many people hate Israel. Much of what they do (the sionists) resemble what the Nazi did. I'm not saying that Hamas are good people, they have killed many civilians. But Just look at the number of deaths. Isreal have killed so many more civilians its not even fun...
It tends to sway back and forth. Both sides, IMHO, are evil as fuck.
In the 60s the Palestinians 'used' an Israel attack, lying and saying pregnant women had been raped, to gain support from their people for an all out war.
More recently the treatment of Palestinians has been so inhuman its insane.
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first: i really know to little about the conflict to take a side (like most people imo)
The thing i dont get: why is israel constantly establishing new settlements in palestinian terretory, while claiming to defend itself?
Or am i getting the whole thing wrong here?
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On November 15 2012 21:06 Snotling wrote:
first: i really know to little about the conflict to take a side (like most people imo)
The thing i dont get: why is israel constantly establishing new settlements in palestinian terretory, while claiming to defend itself.
or am i getting the whole thing wrong here?
Well, there are different definitions of Palestinian Territory. In Israel's definition that land has been there's since 1967 or 1948 (depending on which land). The Palestinians claim that all of the land is theirs. I believe Syria claims that a very small part of the land is theirs. Egypt and Lebanon used to claim some land but they gave up their claims (in 1967 I think).
Basically, a long time ago Israel said that the land was theirs, and since then they have been gradually developing that land.
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Tbh this whole situation is one of the many sores left by Hitler, even 70 years on.
The whole problem was that after being butchered like cattle for 8 years and losing a strong Percentage of their population, pretty much the whole political force of the Allies felt they owed the Jewish something
. Sadly for our generation they were too short-sighted/rushed into what they did(founded Israel).
There have been atrocities on both sides, I give Israel a break because in their short history, they had to endure the largest genecide in recent history, then had multiple Arab nations try to wipe them off the grid for 10-20 years with multiple high-casualty open wars, while terrorist threats against them have been constant throughout.
Although I emphasize with the Palestine situation and they should aim for political solution to give them slightly more land, terrorism is unforgivable...
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On November 15 2012 20:51 sgfightmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 20:43 Passion wrote:On November 15 2012 20:40 zalz wrote:On November 15 2012 20:36 Passion wrote:On November 15 2012 20:31 BluePanther wrote:On November 15 2012 20:05 NesquiKGG wrote:
Israel are good at telling stories about getting bombed and losing citizens .. but are they actually true? some of them might be but its not compareable to what happened to Gaza when Israel killed dozen of innocent people and call it "War" and then apologies at Davos.... YouTube itself has like thousends of Videos where Isreal soldiers threaten, kill or abuse Palastine Womens, Children and Old People... did you hear anything about a palastine man, chil or women who threaten, abused or killed a jew or isreal people?... Hamas is evil .. but this doesnt give anyone the right to kill so many innocent people... and you people defending isreal should aks yourself if you're not biased and blinded or manipulated by some fake news... :/ I rly dont know how we people gonna get a long if there are still morons killing innocent people and still getting support from their country men.... I'm sorry, I don't approve some of the stuff Israel has done, but if I had to pick who I wanted to win in this fight, it would be Israel 100% of the time. They've shown loads more tolerance and restraint than the Palestinians have, both recently and throughout the history of that region (last 100 years or so). I'm not sure you know how this entire conflict started... Israel just stole the Palestinian homeland. Tolerance? Restraint? You can't really be serious. Well, if you put it like that, then the Israeli position is obvious isn't it? There can be no negotiation, and Israel will not permit itself to be destroyed or abolished. If you come into it from your angle, one where there can be no middle ground, then why should Israel seek any? You want to fight for that piece of land? Fine, says Israel, lets fight then. Aren't you, and others like you, getting exactly what you want? A battle to the death, no negotiation. You're saying we should give these extremists what they want, because one can't reason with them? no he's actually saying that based on your reasoning that israel stole the palestinian homeland and hence should have the land taken back from them there is no middle ground. so why should israel bother with negotiation or giving quarter if the only option left to them is fight for their land or give it up? hence the fight to the death
But that's their choice. And I figure that's the price of freedom. Or should we have given Nazi Germany half of France?
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EPT
