EPTOn November 15 2012 10:48 ppshchik wrote:
Job well done Israel for killing this terrorist scum.
Job well done Israel for killing this terrorist scum.
jew-brainwashed american.
User was temp banned for this post.
Israel Bombs Palestine; Kills Hamas Leader - Page 15
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Xadar
497 Posts
jew-brainwashed american. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Aristodemus
England1993 Posts
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
Just a note, you might want to edit it. But if you do get banned, I hope the idiot above you gets banned as well :D. I mean the Hamas leader dying? That's probably a good thing (I say probably because I'm uneducated in him specifically), but the civilians and children killed around him? inexcusable and such a post like "job well done Israel" is blatantly uncalled for. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13931 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:16 Aristodemus wrote: Israel once again showing what a disgrace they are. Do people really wonder why Hamas were chosen as leaders with these actions part of a Palestinians daily life. The US need to stop funding their military equipment. US can't/won't show anything but total support for Israel. Its a political must for any politician and suggesting otherwise is just as silly as asking the palistinians to just accept peace in the region. I don't think theres ever going to be a solution to this problem. and things are only going to get worse before they get better. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:11 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Sorry so they just, by total accident with a much more superior armed forces technologically and trained, manage to rack up more civilian deaths by "oops my bad" then a state actively trying to kill civilians? It's like your argument is "Well it wasn't our intent to kill 10x as many civilians, are hands are clean" You can't just shoot rockets and cry foul play when someone strikes back. Yes collateral damage should be minimized, and so far it's been going much better than the last time the IDF attacked Hamas. Next you say I'm being ridiculous but you never refuted how either side are different, except that Hamas kills less civilians than Israel that is. Like I said, targeting a civilian population is bad. Collateral damage isn't good either. I never once mentioned how Hamas kills less civilians, you did. And then you note "ways Palestinians can get what they want without killing civilians" which doesn't even address my last quote whatsoever, how are they going to get Israel to stop demolishing settlements and expanding. It's like you're washing your hands of everything Israel does and saying "It's Palestine's fault" Let me make this clear, I am not, in any way, saying the actions of the current leadership is justified regarding settlement policies. You know who ends up justifying it though, not just to Israeli citizens but to the whole world? People like Hamas. | ||
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sgfightmaster
38 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:10 Passion wrote: It truly is horribly ironic. And yes, it's almost inappropriate, if it weren't a fairly accurate comparison. Israel doesn't call them concentration camps, but how else should we call the Gaza strip? Just because the UN brokered the treaty (which I'd consider an incorrect starting point of the conflict; this happened while Palestine still was a UK mandate) this doesn't make it legitimate. I wouldn't want to see all out war, I want to see the UN / civilized world invade Israel and take away power from their extremist government. I'd like to see the land being given back to the Palestines. And then, for all I care, the UK/US can give Israel a part of their own territory. This is also because I don't see a peaceful solution happening. The conflict has lasted close to a century, we've put a complete different culture and religion in the middle of tense region already, there is no way to legitimise Israels creation and existence... But you are right to say you can't truly blame Israel in the bigger picture, but they're sure not helping, and they are the problem now. Looking forward to the answers on your last questions. in concentration camps: babies were roasted in ovens people were herded into gas chambers and killed women were made to strip naked and paraded before nazi soldiers etc etc etc does this stuff happen in the gaza strip? i'm not exactly clear what happened in the past. if the UN unilaterally partitioned land from what was palestinian in the past then i suppose you could argue it was unfair. like a previous poster mentioned, though, basing claims to land simply on "they were mine in the past" is not indisputable. i dont quite see how an invasion and more "might is right" is very different from all out war. the scale would not approach millions dead presumably, but the no-holds-barred approach is something that i would not like to see taking place, for one because we are supposed to be more enlightened these days. i would think that a solution amenable to all in the short term is - terrorists stop firing rockets at israelis so israelis have no reason to fire back, and israel take steps to give palestinians a fair deal in terms of land. this completely sidesteps a violent solution. i'm not sure what you're trying to say with your last statement - you can't blame them for everything, but they are the problem, hence... you can blame them for everything? | ||
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mindjames
Israel322 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:00 NeMeSiS3 wrote: True it was an ad hominem but you're making it sound like Palestine has this massive death toll in Israel when about 9-10 Palestinians die compared to every Israel who dies. It's like you're living in a separate world saying "They kill all the civilians! We just kill more by accident! grrr rawr rawr" So either your military is incredibly poor or they disregard civilians as much as the Hamas disregards civilians such that it's rather equal footing. Except one side is actively demolishing Palestinian settlements without warning and relocating to ghetto's. You wonder how a group like the Hamas finds followers. Comparing casualties is not the fair thing to do. The vigilantes that are operating the missile launchers have been using human shield tactics from day 1. On the other side, Israel has invested billions in developing a missile interception system that will cover southern Israel, and the people living in that area are notified (via alarm) about 30 seconds before rockets hit, so they have time to run for shelter. Truly, due to the IDF's preparation, not many people are hurt these days relative to the amount of rockets being fired, but that doesn't mean the Gazan vigilantes are on the peaceful side of things, now does it? Also as said earlier in this thread, there's a major difference between launching rockets in your general direction - and launching attacks on ammunition, launchers, and heads of terrorist organizations (and this is NOT an arbitrary definition). | ||
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sgfightmaster
38 Posts
regarding my earlier question, what do you guys think of the fact that israel overstepped the original UN mandated boundaries? | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:35 sgfightmaster wrote: @ novalisk/hooahah/rezj regarding my earlier question, what do you guys think of the fact that israel overstepped the original UN mandated boundaries? Most of the territory comes from wars waged against Israel. That's something I don't really mind. What I do mind though are the illegal settlements in the west bank, where the PLO has been cooperative. | ||
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Op
73 Posts
Just read that the attack coincides with the palestinian effort to move up their status to that of s state in the UN general assembly. They might actually manage to do this since the US has no veto there, and the journalist mentions that the Israeli attack might have to do with Israel escalating the violence to undermine this palestinian diplomatic effort. Anyone else read this ? What's your opinion ? To the israeli guys: what should the palestinians need to do in order to get to some kind of peace settlement ? and what would israel be ready to offer besides the current status-quo ? | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:43 Op wrote: Just read that the attack coincides with the palestinian effort to move up their status to that of s state in the UN general assembly. They might actually manage to do this since the US has no veto there, and the journalist mentions that the Israeli attack might have to do with Israel escalating the violence to undermine this palestinian diplomatic effort. Anyone else read this ? What's your opinion ? To the israeli guys: what should the palestinians need to do in order to get to some kind of peace settlement ? and what would israel be ready to offer besides the current status-quo ? acknowledge the state if israel, cease all firing onto israeli territory, cease suicide bombing I guess that's pretty much it as for the status of a state, that's not the reason. If it were then Israel would've done so last time they tried to get a state, not to mention I think they're already acknowledged as one? I definitely remember something along that line. | ||
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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sgfightmaster
38 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:42 Novalisk wrote: Most of the territory comes from wars waged against Israel. That's something I don't really mind. What I do mind though are the illegal settlements in the west bank, where the PLO has been cooperative. as i understand it though, israel initially gained control over the west bank after the six day war? so what makes the west bank different from other territories annexed by israel in the course of war? | ||
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theJob
272 Posts
Imagine if the countries with legit issues with the west resolved their grudges by precision strikes in London, Washington and Paris. | ||
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:57 theJob wrote: What's there to discuss. It's an illegal tactic. Imagine if the countries with legit issues with the west resolved their grudges by precision strikes in London, Washington and Paris. Well said sir, well said. | ||
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sgfightmaster
38 Posts
i asked the second question to probe for inconsistencies in his reasoning as to which territories israel "deserved" and which they arguably took by force. was hoping for the discussion to achieve something rather than emotive responses. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On November 15 2012 23:02 sgfightmaster wrote: asking the question as to whether or not israel has good reasons for overstepping its initial boundaries has implications if an ideal situation is ever found i.e. deciding how to divide the land such that israelis have space to live while palestinians get a fair shot at moving out of the third world. i asked the second question to probe for inconsistencies in his reasoning as to which territories israel "deserved" and which they arguably took by force. was hoping for the discussion to achieve something rather than emotive responses. its hard to have a discussion with those who believe the situation is just he-said-she-said | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17257 Posts
On November 15 2012 18:14 Cirqueenflex wrote: it ain't that easy. Thousands of years ago, isael did not belong to the jews. Then they occupied it (according to the bible at least) as their holy land. Then lost it again (they all went into slavery in babylon iirc), got it again, and so forth. According to history about the crusades, it also swapped a couple of times between arabs and europeans. Fact is, there is no right or wrong on who owns the land, pretty much all of it is a grey area. I don't think the current palestine citizen can track their line down to people who lived there before the jews occupied it, but they have been living there for several hundred years. So yeah, everything is messed up, and the fact that the UK gave israel (or at least a part of it) to the jews after WW2 is reasonable (given that they had to suffer so much, being mostly innocent) but it does not help either. What does not help however is the fact, that israel gets bombed and attacked by rockets on a daily basis. This has severely diminished since they started to control everything with their superior military and the wall they build, so that was at least a success for the population that has to live in daily fear of a rocket exploding in their childs face. Also, since religion is involved, you cannot expect people to listen to reason. Religion is first of all a decision of faith after all. So there is never an easy solution. On a related subject, i am already pretty darn impressed that israel has never decided to destroy the Dome of the Rock, given that it is a holy place for the jews (actually the most holy of them all), and they had their main temple up there for quite some time. The arabs were not as kind when they conquerored Jerusalem, they destroyed the main jewish temple and build this ugly thing instead. Putting Israel where it is now was the dumbest decision ever. It creates so many problems that it's unvelievable. All the territorial claims with neighbours aside, even looking at simple things like sports, where Israeli teams have to compete in European leagues instead of their regional league. Come on... They should also give some land to the Romani people while at it. They've suffered just as much from the Nazis but didn't get their own country afterwards, why? | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On November 15 2012 22:54 sgfightmaster wrote: as i understand it though, israel initially gained control over the west bank after the six day war? so what makes the west bank different from other territories annexed by israel in the course of war? The current territories Israel is stepping on in the west bank are not war-related, they're just letting the religious zealots have their way. That's the difference. The PLO is not attacking Israel, yet Israel is still taking their territories. That's miles different from the six-day war. | ||
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Op
73 Posts
Apparently Hamas is a major obstacle to peace, why not simply try to make peace with the palestinians in the west-bank which are not firing rockets (as far as I know). Make a peace between the willing which will isolate Hamas. Israel will prove it really wants peace, and improvements in the situation of the people in the west-bank will show the people in the Gaza strip peace is possible and what is needed to get it (with or without Hamas)... | ||
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