EPTLockdown: The Terran Solution - Page 2
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
On September 27 2012 04:47 kcdc wrote: Lockdown is lame, and if it had to go on any unit, the ghost might be my last choice. Putting units in time out is a lame effect. Moreover, a spell that the opponent can't prevent or respond to is lame. And lastly, the ghost just makes no sense as the target for the spell. Who would use it over EMP vs P? And in TvT, you'll be better off using the resources to make more of your own tanks than you would be making ghosts to put your opponents tanks in time out. And in late game, ghosts already have nukes to break enemy siege lines. It's no lamer than mind control, vortex, graviton and fungal. Also it's entirely preventable through phase shields, feedbacking / killing the ghosts, or recalling the units. Also, EMP and lockdown would work together (who wouldn't want to EMP and lock down a clumped up Protoss army) | ||
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On September 27 2012 04:53 Prime Directive wrote: It's no lamer than the lamest spells in the game. Also it's entirely preventable through phase shields, feedbacking / killing the ghosts, or recalling the units. Also, EMP and lockdown would work together (who wouldn't want to EMP and lock down a clumped up Protoss army) That's not really a selling point. It emphasizes the bad in the game. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
If something is about as lame as fungal and vortex are, it needs to stay the heck out of this game. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
On September 27 2012 03:53 Prime Directive wrote: I disagree with this. Lockdown in brood war was hardly used at all as deathball play was not that common. I think lockdown in sc2 would be a different sort of animal and feel completely original, even if it isn't lol. Right now too much of the tvp matchup revolves around protecting colossus and immortals. Lets change that. ? Are you a young person that didn't play a lot of BW games ? In which case, I can understand your view, and yes lockdown was an awesome ability and very handy to use versus carriers or battlecruisers mainly. Maybe not something you would see on your every day competitive matches, but a very nice and fun tool to play with as a mediocre terran (thinking BGH with friends, or friendly 3v3, 4v4 for instance). I just feel that SC2 should have "stuff" of his own, and not recycle old units / concepts... (hello, spider mines). | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On September 27 2012 04:35 zeratul_jf wrote: Didnt protoss just get an ability to counter single target abilities?? i think that should fix that problem or like another poster suggested just add research at an academy Yeah through the Oracle which comes out of the Stargate, If you open Stargate in PvT you are pretty much dead to any 2 base stim timings. Also you won't have colossus or High templar. Since Oracles mean you can't tech because they cost 200 gas. | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And Lockdown doesn't work on Siege tank lines in a cost effective way, even in SC2. Range 13 makes these Ghosts never return and Snipe is really strong against Ghosts. A nuke would be a more efficient way. That being said, a banshee is perfect at picking at siege lines. The ability to break siege lines in TvT are enough already. Especially since you don't even need vision if you invest into a Sensor turret. Imo Lockdown would add nothing to the game except making it a high risk for a Protoss to send out a warp prism for harass for example. Sure key units can be stunned, but what forces the Protoss to not go into a Deathball, so they can prevent you from killing the stunned units. I surely wouldn't even think of using a warp prism, because there could be a 2 supply unit out that that instant kills my unit on range 9 basically. Even Fungal and cannonHT isn't such a powerful drop defense. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12024 Posts
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Jasiwel
United States146 Posts
On September 27 2012 04:59 Blackknight232 wrote: in all honesty it would just behoove all terrans if the science vessel just made a appearance in the game again i mean it can heal mech units, use irridate, and can be upgraded to use lockdown and defensive matrix(again) I would be glad to see this back. I always hated the Science vessel, but at the same time it was because how effective it could be. Terrans do have the Raven though, but I see that simply opening more techpaths for Terran and giving them more capabilities. It would also oblige Blizzard to make the Battle Hellion as a Mechanical unit again. However, I could definitely see Lockdown being imbalanced and too good for Terran in SC2. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On September 27 2012 03:31 Blackknight232 wrote: the only problem i see with this is that if your going for a 'pure' mech play why bother giving the ghost the lockdown ability? why not give it to a unit like the raven or make a caster mech unit with that ability? some people say that it's hard to get ghost with a mech army since that it costs a lot to have. I mean the yamato cannon just about solves the problem with immortals as they one shot them all the time. A pure composition working past midgame would be pretty broken and go against the design that's really key to SC2. Why the Raven? Neither the ghost nor raven are mech units, and are already gotten as support units. Also the OP didn't mention anything about pure mech, just mech. Also someone raised a good point that lockdown wasn't used much in BW, and hence it wouldn't "just" be bringing back a BW ability. | ||
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
as for your second point i have no clue what the hell you're talking about mind explaining that more | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On September 27 2012 04:16 Prime Directive wrote: First, I would argue that the oracle's phase shields also prevent this (not just recall), concussive shells, strike cannons, and emp revealing cloak so this is still very preventable. Not to mention revelation lets you spot the ghosts without an oracle. Also, the templar already has a similar added utility against T right now with feedback that snipe is definitely not comparable to. The more I think about it the more I do think it needs to be a researched skill however. I already alluded to this. EMP removes one of the protoss defenses by sapping energy and shield. You can keep them in the back, but then they can't protect anything. Put them in the front and it's a matter of timing to send in a decent emp. I believe revelation's taken out, might be wrong. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
I had a very similar thought (thread above). I think lockdown addresses all sorts of concerns while at the same time making the game very exciting to watch. This is another interesting suggestion: EMP shockwave, temporarily disrupts electric signals found in biological and mechanical units, causing units in the radius to become stunned and slowed. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
The Ghost is fine in TvP, it only needs work in TvT and TvZ. I'd much rather see a buff to Nukes (from range 12 to range 14 would give Browder his anti-siege line tool), which would improve the Ghost in TvT and TvZ without making it overblown in TvP. Timing Nukes in-between Swarm Hosts spawns could add some really cool tension to the matchup. Do I spawn all my locust together, which will do the most damage but risk letting a Ghost sneak in? Or do I stagger my locust spawns, which would keep me protected against Ghosts but at the cost of doing less damage to the enemy front? Or do I use Viper energy to tug Ghosts instead of tugging Tanks/Thors? I think Lockdown would be a better fit for the Raven. It would give Ravens a fighting chance vs Robo/Stargate while keeping them weak to Templar tech. Trading Seeker Missile or PDD for Lockdown might work. The thing is...I think we have too many anti-micro spells in the game already. The Oracle shouldn't need a spell to counter bad gameplay design...and the fact it does have one is very telling. I guess I'd rather not have lockdown at all, and get a brand new ability instead. | ||
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MeteorRise
Canada611 Posts
Dont take the suggestion too seriously, I just thought it would be a unique and cool idea! | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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