sLivko is not at all a patch zerg, he has been a badass for a while.
and who cares, anyways. they adapted to a change in the game and they went with it as an advantage, it just shows that those who have been good for a while and are struggling haven't fully adapted to said changes.
but sLivko needs to be off this list. thanks.

PlacidPanda

United States246 Posts

August 20 2012 04:15 GMT

#162

I feel like all of these players were on the upswing before the patch but only splashed later. What do we call Taeja? Antipatchterran? or seed? Patchtoss? 3 players playing well is not evidence of a patchzerg in the least.

Savant.GL

Germany502 Posts

August 20 2012 04:17 GMT

#163

Maybe if you have a weak matchup it is a good idea to practice it and get better. This could be a reason why they have increased.

Unless you actually give a fuck about gold league terrans crying about balance whilst you count your money.

Laughing all the way to the bank

IPA

United States3206 Posts

August 20 2012 04:19 GMT

#164

"Patchzerg" is frankly insulting to a lot of players who have been working incredibly hard to improve. They don't deserve it and I wish the community was above this kind of bs. But it's not.

pOnarreT

155 Posts

August 20 2012 04:22 GMT

#165

On August 20 2012 13:19 IPA wrote:
"Patchzerg" is frankly insulting to a lot of players who have been working incredibly hard to improve. They don't deserve it and I wish the community was above this kind of bs. But it's not.

Actually, if this thread wasn't created, a lot wouldn't even know what "patchzergs" are. I question the real motives of the OP.

Piledriver

United States1697 Posts

August 20 2012 04:22 GMT

#166

On August 20 2012 09:18 nkr wrote:
- What is a so called "patchzerg" ?

A zerg who only started making a splash in the scene after patch 1.4.3 balance changes (patch notes), released the tenth of may 2012, implying that this zerg only is where he is at due to the patch, and the supposed zerg imbalance that comes with it.

- Are patchzergs real, or are they just a figment of our imagination?

Axiom: If the last balance update in truth is the reason these zergs made it to the top, one would assume high winrates in especially TvZ and possibly PvZ (some would argue that the overlord change made it easier for zerg to be greedy in this matchup as well) while their ZvZ winrates dropped off.

Why? Well we can safely assume that the balance in ZvZ was not affected by this or any previous patch, and while getting further in tournaments, they will now face the better pre-patch zergs. If these zergs in truth got to where they are because of the patch, they should lose more of these matches.
---snip---

I think there is a very big fallacy in the original post, one that I'm afraid cannot be so easily overcome unless we come up with some way to quantify and factor in player skill.

The way to see if a player is a so called "patch-zerg", is to not just collect raw win-percentage data like you did, but also to record the change in win percentage while keeping the relative skill level of the opponents as a constant. For example a 50% win-rate vs Euro GM terrans in Playhems and MLG qualifiers, cannot be directly compared to a 65% win rate vs a collection of pro players that includes absolutely top class Terrans and Protoss including Code S players in a big tournament like IEM.

So in essence I strongly feel that the latest patches (and metagame changes), have led to the surge of a lot of new zerg "talents", while there have been no new notable players from other races coming out of Europe recently.

GTPGlitch

5061 Posts

August 20 2012 04:44 GMT

#167

Players that were already getting good use out of mass queen builds and actually had enough of a brain to simcity against hellion runbys didn't really get a bonus out of this patch, but players like JR (and, imo, Vortix but he's debatable) weren't getting the max out of their queens and with the buff got a big bonus to their earlygame survival rates. Thus, they are able to get to the blord/infestor deathball that is really hard to deal with if you aren't MVP, and then win more because not everybody is MVP...

plogamer

Canada3132 Posts

August 20 2012 04:45 GMT

#168

On August 20 2012 13:22 Piledriver wrote:

Show nested quote +

This.

Silly flawed statistic spreading misinformation on TL since most people won't bother reading responses like piledriver's.

honkeybeef

United States143 Posts

August 20 2012 04:56 GMT

#169

OP zerg is OP... seriously stop whinning about balance. Even if zerg is strong, its just part of the game, and we just need to develop a new metagame.

aFganFlyTrap

Australia212 Posts

August 20 2012 05:05 GMT

#170

patch zergs exist, you just picked the wrong 3 zergs to analyse.

Aterons_toss

Romania1275 Posts

August 20 2012 05:13 GMT

#171

Analyzing 3 players with a really small sample of game is pretty pointless imo, especially if you are going for winrates only.

KillingVector

United States96 Posts

August 20 2012 05:17 GMT

#172

So I've looked through the OP's comments and I've noticed that he is addressing questions of his statistics/numbers. This isn't nearly as important as addressing the point brought up by others that the strength of certain playstyles in ZvZ have been affected by the patch. Conclusions based on great statistics/numbers and bad assumptions are not great conclusions.

Azera

3800 Posts

August 20 2012 05:20 GMT

#173

I JohnnyRecco a patchzerg?

QuackPocketDuck

410 Posts

August 20 2012 05:22 GMT

#174

On August 20 2012 13:12 vultdylan wrote:
sLivko is not at all a patch zerg, he has been a badass for a while.
and who cares, anyways. they adapted to a change in the game and they went with it as an advantage, it just shows that those who have been good for a while and are struggling haven't fully adapted to said changes.
but sLivko needs to be off this list. thanks.

I know eh, glad Nerchio didnt end up on the list.
Patchzerg or not, part of being good at sc2 is being good at it at the stage its at (current patch) and not only being hypothetically good in 10 years time when there's no longer any balance changes.

algorithm0r

Canada486 Posts

August 20 2012 05:22 GMT

#175

Probably a well intentioned thread but why should we add to the current whining over Zerg with this. It is bad enough everyone says Zerg IMBA (including Violet).

pyrostat

Korea (South)70 Posts

August 20 2012 05:27 GMT

#176

amuzing. nothing more. nothing less. disappointed.

TRaFFiC

Canada1448 Posts

August 20 2012 05:27 GMT

#177

Such a small sample size in the OP. Would never hold up to Science.

Zaurus

Singapore676 Posts

August 20 2012 05:30 GMT

#178

The one dimensional play with not much change in BO is what makes me feel the OPness of Zerg. Is like some zergs found the winning formula and everybody is just copying it with little modification. I seriously can't differentiate their play style, all brood lords push looks identical to me. All early game mass queen defense and mid game infestors play are roughly the same. They are good not because of the patch, they are just ahead in the metagame now, cause someone (Stephano) figured it out for them.

But u just can't win games being Zerg, u have to be good too. Is just easier to practice one build at a time then multiple style that Terran and Protoss requires. Zerg is not OP, is just easier to be good at it IMO, u won't be as good if u switch race, the demands and approach is different for T n P.

Talin

Montenegro10532 Posts

August 20 2012 05:32 GMT

#179

On August 20 2012 13:22 pOnarreT wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually, if this thread wasn't created, a lot wouldn't even know what "patchzergs" are. I question the real motives of the OP.

Agreed. This thread seems like a very sneaky and underhanded way of encouraging this so-called "discussion" and focusing attention on the recent results of these three players.

If they weren't regarded as patchzergs before this thread, they probably will be (to a larger extent) now.

CaF-Lunar

Germany126 Posts

August 20 2012 05:34 GMT

#180

this