EPTWhether they are pre-patch Zergs or not they aren't winning anything and i am sure they never will (at the highest level of play).
Looking forward to the next MLG and watch some "real" TvZ .
Patchzergs, Real or Imagniary? - Page 16
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Swiipii
2195 Posts
Whether they are pre-patch Zergs or not they aren't winning anything and i am sure they never will (at the highest level of play). Looking forward to the next MLG and watch some "real" TvZ . | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
Then I realised that zergs were just figuring out how to play correctly and Terrans hadn't worked it out quite yet. Well, pro Terran's haven't, my TvZ hasn't gotten any worse, tbh. I definitely think Zerg is favoured right now vs Terran (and probably Protoss to a lesser and constantly lessening extent), but I don't think it's got anything much to do with balance, the meta game just needs to evolve. | ||
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EzZzZzZz
Canada25 Posts
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:37 althaz wrote: I actually had this thought in my own mind a little while ago, mostly because my own ZvT improved immensely after the patch (the correct way to play just became so clear to me, I've thought ZvP is easy for about a year). Then I realised that zergs were just figuring out how to play correctly and Terrans hadn't worked it out quite yet. The only figuring out zergs did was that 4 hellions were easy to hold with pre patch queens. Blizzard still held their hands and nullified it and a host of other openings for no particular reason. No, there hasn't been any figuring out on the zergs side. | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
I think all zergs benefitted from the patch but would not go as far as saying these "patchzergs" are only doing well because of the patch, they are just getting further in tournaments then they would without the patch as they are no longer beaten by terrans slightly better then them. I was really liking how this game was shaping up balancewise before the queen + ov patch  . | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
Greg "Idra" Fields: before patch(01/01/2012 to 09/05/2012): - ZvT Record: 12 wins - 27 losses (30.77%) - ZvP Record: 7 wins - 18 losses (28.00%) after patch(10/05/2012 to today): - ZvT Record: 8 wins - 14 losses (36.36%) - ZvP Record: 10 wins - 12 losses (45.45%) (sourc: TLPD) So maybe Idra is a patchzerg? :o edit: added zvp | ||
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Nourek
Germany188 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:29 gakkgakk wrote: Yeah this is really not true. Zerg dont HAVE to be +1 base against terran. Equal bases is very much fine for zerg. That depends. Vs triple OC, you need a third actually to keep up in income. 3 Mules provide mineral income equal to almost an extra base (16 workers: 11 minerals/sec, 3 mules: 9 minerals/sec). I agree though, you don't have to always be up a base, but you do want to expand sooner as Zerg. | ||
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sage_francis
France1823 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:29 gakkgakk wrote: Yeah this is really not true. Zerg dont HAVE to be +1 base against terran. Equal bases is very much fine for zerg. Indeed, it was true in early days of the game and in bw ofc. But right now it is absolutely untrue. There is obviously "patchzergs". Just take a look a reeco/keen games or some of the iem games. A lot of them are only relying on powermacro with pretty poor decision making, infestors micro, and creep spread. Right now u play zvt like pvt. Just sit down and macro, defend with infestors, T3 like a boss and Amove. Good creep spread, micro, flanks and good decision making are optionnal. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:30 Wombat_NI wrote: The entire reason people are annoyed is because this isn't a consequence of Zergs discovering new things, Blizzard are holding their hands and giving them the tools to defend what the other two races have been doing. The knock-on effects are pretty big too, in terms of interesting pressures and harassment. I play Protoss, and I used to like to do zealot/zealot/stalker pressures off one gate against Zerg, but it just doesn't really work anymore because Queens hold off those kind of small forces pretty easily. So instead of doing non-committal pressure harassment to force units, I found that I had to rely on 2 base timings much more given how good a catch-all defence Queens can be. Just makes for a more boring and less varied game What the fuck man? Protoss has gotten more buffs in the past year than zerg. Blizzard patches those things, because they don't work out the way they think they should. But yeah, please go and figure out how to play 5range immortal allin and do 40HP warp prism harass. | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:35 Swiipii wrote: I don't think that anyone is denying the fact that Zerg are doing quite well vs Terrans atm . But saying that Zerg is just "A+click trololol sdsdsdsds 1a1a1a1a" and that SortOf/JR/etc.. can be compared to players like DRG or even Stephano is just bullshit . Whether they are pre-patch Zergs or not they aren't winning anything and i am sure they never will (at the highest level of play). Looking forward to the next MLG and watch some "real" TvZ . See, I don't think anyone is saying that every Zerg is just a+click 1a1a1a1 and that SortOf = DRG; what annoys people is that there is very little difference in results between players like SortOf/JR/Vortix who are obviously not anywhere close to being Code S levels in their control and mechanics etc compared to Code S level zergs, at least in ZvT. It's entirely possible that the current ZvT situation is very temporary, but in the meantime it's frustrating watching that kind of play going as far as it did in tournaments like IEM which was 'supposed' to be pretty loaded with talent. I don't want to say that Vortix or JohnnyRecco or whatever is talentless and bad - but I don't see how can anyone deny that their games in IEM & TSL were awful in every sense of that word. It's obvious that the way the game was patched has a lot to do with viability of the style of play they used, hence the hate on the patches and the 'patchzergs'. It's silly to sit around guessing whether they'd be any good without the queen / infestor patches or not (or if the patches were different), but looking at how they play - in the game as it is now, 'patchzerg' does seem like a pretty fitting name. :p | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:50 sage_francis wrote: Indeed, it was true in early days of the game and in bw ofc. But right now it is absolutely untrue. There is obviously "patchzergs". Just take a look a reeco/keen games or some of the iem games. A lot of them are only relying on powermacro with pretty poor decision making, infestors micro, and creep spread. Right now u play zvt like pvt. Just sit down and macro, defend with infestors, T3 like a boss and Amove. Good creep spread, micro, flanks and good decision making are optionnal. Yeah, a game that really is worth checking out for this point is MVP vs Vortix on Cloud Kingdom from IEM. Votix got ahead by crushing MvPs army on creep, but then just tried to 1A his entire army towards MVPs 4th when MVP had a giant ass concave and Vortix had like 3 infesters, which was horrible and probably the only way he could have lost that army. Vortix also kept sending his entire army to deal with drops, but was doing a horrible job dealing with them, he lost his pool and so many drones every game. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
You are patch Terran. You are patch Protoss. You are patch Zerg. No one can escape from this. | ||
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avc
121 Posts
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
However, it amazes me that most of the successful foreign players are zerg. It really bothers me, why protoss players aren't that good? Imbalance or simply not talented enough? I would really want to know. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:51 Big J wrote: What the fuck man? Protoss has gotten more buffs in the past year than zerg. Blizzard patches those things, because they don't work out the way they think they should. But yeah, please go and figure out how to play 5range immortal allin and do 40HP warp prism harass. Dual forges builds existed before the upgrade buff, I don't really get why the buff was put in there. From my past posts I actually disagreed with the idea to buff the immortal to hold 1/1/1s, it was tough to hold back in the day but that was as much a result of the map pool at that time than it was a consequence of the build itself. The warp prism buff was to encourage a less deathball-centric style, and to an extent it did this. However for me it's only really HerO's PvZ that consistently does this, as timing attacks and deathballs are still just as viable. Bit of a shame as I love to watch HerO's multitasking at work | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:57 Adonminus wrote: I know that Vortix, SortOf and Nerchio were all good players. I usually check the grandmaster league from time to time and there were many times I saw either Nerchion or Vortix in rank 1. SortOf is also quite good, I believe he was gm since it first came out. However, it amazes me that most of the successful foreign players are zerg. It really bothers me, why protoss players aren't that good? Imbalance or simply not talented enough? I would really want to know. There was the same discussion as well, when all the Terran whining was about TvP some months ago. Feast and elfi come to mind that weren't well known before. Socke and HasuObs that suddenly managed to get very stable results. I think people even whined about Grubby and how HuK and Naniwa were the only foreigners to be able to compete in Code S. It's the same blabla from the same people, just that the last time some Zergs tuned in and described their race as "so much harder than Protoss and TvZ is the only good MU" and this time some Protoss tune in to describe "PvT as the most balanced and skillbased MU ever and Zerg is just supereasy amove". | ||
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 20 2012 21:58 Wombat_NI wrote: Dual forges builds existed before the upgrade buff, I don't really get why the buff was put in there. From my past posts I actually disagreed with the idea to buff the immortal to hold 1/1/1s, it was tough to hold back in the day but that was as much a result of the map pool at that time than it was a consequence of the build itself. The warp prism buff was to encourage a less deathball-centric style, and to an extent it did this. However for me it's only really HerO's PvZ that consistently does this, as timing attacks and deathballs are still just as viable. Bit of a shame as I love to watch HerO's multitasking at work what's your point? Those patches happened regardless, whether you think they were needed or not. I could say the same thing about the queen range. It was not needed, but it happened. If they don't want to remove it, then they should try to fix other parts of the one MU that got really affected too much by it. Hey wait, that's what they are doing! | ||
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Sc2Null
United States3754 Posts
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