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On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard
Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech?
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On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech?
iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue.
Such a stupid unit.
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On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech? iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue. Such a stupid unit.
I agree, Immortals do have a very bad design...
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On September 04 2012 07:07 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech? iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue. Such a stupid unit. I agree, Immortals do have a very bad design...
I was actually referring to the warhound, but the immortal isn't particularly interesting either 
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On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech? iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue. Such a stupid unit.
That doesn't make sense, why would they make up ridiculous rules like this rather than just redesigning the immortal's flawed ability? The game would have been better if they predicted what Immortals would actually be used for, high anti armor damage and immobile, it's more similiar to a reaver than colossus is. The shield's only served as overkill on tanks in TvP so that they never see use, so the shield never plays any major role since immortals are used more for their damage than their damage taking ability. It needs a redesign badly, they could bring it closer to reaver in the burst damage role, and it can be a far less boring unit. Zealots will always be the choice for eating damage.
I'd love to see the shield ability replaced with something cooler like a short rapid fire mode that maybe roots them in place for the duration or something else for that role. Something to make immortal drops more interesting.
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On August 16 2012 02:58 pallad wrote:Btw .. i always had bad luck with beta invites.. so i just wanna say something... + Show Spoiler +Im gonna trade my sister for beta account..-_-
Deal!
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People don't like the Colossi because kills anything that is light so fucking fast, but the Immortal, at design POV, is even worse and dumber. It kills almost alone (Chargelots and Blinkstarkers are a pain in the ass too) Tank play. There isn't anything on WoL factory that can counter it.
At least Warhounds trade OK with Immortals, so it can function as a metalwall so tanks can deal their AoE.
In the end, just warhound + BH is a retarded composition. It's weak against archons, storms, forcefields, mass chargelots. It doen't have any type of ranged AoE, skirmish play (besides warhound drops, that shit fucking destroys mineral lines) or ground control/presence (just see some HotS custom games casted by HDstarcrafrt, it's a pleasure to see such a dumb composition eating storms after storm and strugglin against good forcefields). To make Mech work, Terran will still need some sweet MIne/Tank play.
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On September 04 2012 07:29 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech? iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue. Such a stupid unit. That doesn't make sense, why would they make up ridiculous rules like this rather than just redesigning the immortal's flawed ability? The game would have been better if they predicted what Immortals would actually be used for, high anti armor damage and immobile, it's more similiar to a reaver than colossus is. The shield's only served as overkill on tanks in TvP so that they never see use, so the shield never plays any major role since immortals are used more for their damage than their damage taking ability. It needs a redesign badly, they could bring it closer to reaver in the burst damage role, and it can be a far less boring unit. Zealots will always be the choice for eating damage. I'd love to see the shield ability replaced with something cooler like a short rapid fire mode that maybe roots them in place for the duration or something else for that role. Something to make immortal drops more interesting.
I don't think Hardened shield is a flawed ability. First of all it halves (or more) the damage marauders do against it. Second of all the rule for hardened shield has always been that spells or abilities ignore it, so the fact that the missiles from the Warhound makes complete sense, in the same way that a Yamato Cannon and Thor Cannons can one-shot Immortals.
It also makes Immortals more resilient against roaches, ultra's, upgraded hydras, opposing archons (or other immortals), and I think it's quite unique and cool, and a fairly elegant solution to Mech Terrans. So I don't see hardened shield as being the enemy here. In any case, I don't think that's why mech isn't used against protoss, it's part of the reason but charge-lots and a big portion as well. Also the effectiveness of Bio which makes people reluctant to switch to mech. If you really want to counter immortals you can get some ghosts mixed in with your mech force as well (I understand that makes it somewhat difficult to pull off).
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On September 04 2012 07:54 PGLMilneCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:29 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss. No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss. No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard. ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield abilityYes thank you blizzard Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech? iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue. Such a stupid unit. That doesn't make sense, why would they make up ridiculous rules like this rather than just redesigning the immortal's flawed ability? The game would have been better if they predicted what Immortals would actually be used for, high anti armor damage and immobile, it's more similiar to a reaver than colossus is. The shield's only served as overkill on tanks in TvP so that they never see use, so the shield never plays any major role since immortals are used more for their damage than their damage taking ability. It needs a redesign badly, they could bring it closer to reaver in the burst damage role, and it can be a far less boring unit. Zealots will always be the choice for eating damage. I'd love to see the shield ability replaced with something cooler like a short rapid fire mode that maybe roots them in place for the duration or something else for that role. Something to make immortal drops more interesting. I don't think Hardened shield is a flawed ability. First of all it halves (or more) the damage marauders do against it. Second of all the rule for hardened shield has always been that spells or abilities ignore it, so the fact that the missiles from the Warhound makes complete sense, in the same way that a Yamato Cannon and Thor Cannons can one-shot Immortals. It also makes Immortals more resilient against roaches, ultra's, upgraded hydras, opposing archons (or other immortals), and I think it's quite unique and cool, and a fairly elegant solution to Mech Terrans. So I don't see hardened shield as being the enemy here. In any case, I don't think that's why mech isn't used against protoss, it's part of the reason but charge-lots and a big portion as well. Also the effectiveness of Bio which makes people reluctant to switch to mech. If you really want to counter immortals you can get some ghosts mixed in with your mech force as well (I understand that makes it somewhat difficult to pull off).
I actually find a lot of hellions counter immortals quite well when backed up with tanks. If you get them in close for maximum splash damage it can be really effective.
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On September 04 2012 05:46 Tenda wrote:I thought they changed the queen model; I guess they reverted it?
I would love to see an ultra graphics mode, where the blood lasts a LOT longer on the screen.
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On September 04 2012 08:17 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:46 Tenda wrote:On September 04 2012 05:44 Dauntless wrote:HotS creep on Terran structures is quite cool.. + Show Spoiler + I thought they changed the queen model; I guess they reverted it? I would love to see an ultra graphics mode, where the blood lasts a LOT longer on the screen.
So you mean gory mode? How would 16 year old leenock's parents feel when they see that?
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On September 04 2012 08:33 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:17 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:On September 04 2012 05:46 Tenda wrote:On September 04 2012 05:44 Dauntless wrote:HotS creep on Terran structures is quite cool.. + Show Spoiler + I thought they changed the queen model; I guess they reverted it? I would love to see an ultra graphics mode, where the blood lasts a LOT longer on the screen. So you mean gory mode? How would 16 year old leenock's parents feel when they see that?
isn't leenock 17??
EDIT yes his birthdate is April 1, 1995
source http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Leenock
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United States23455 Posts
I'm gonna get a beta key and just make lots of warhounds.
Then a-move.
Nothing can defeat me!
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I feel like they will either slow down warhounds or decrease their range or damage. They are just too versatile and fast atm and not really mech like...
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The rumors that China has the beta seems weird, since blizzard hasn't announced anything yet...
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On September 04 2012 05:38 testthewest wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 20:16 Grumbels wrote:
Or nerfing the Thor because supposedly it obscures vision so was problematic when massed, but not taking that to its logical conclusion and removing the colossus from the game in Heart of the Swarm - a unit that stands literally on top of other units and is widely hated by the community.
How about stop talking as if you knew what "the community" likes. Colossus is a great unit. It forces the opponent into doing things, i can actually win a game. If you wanna talk about a shitty unit, take the void ray. All it does is force a lol of the opponent.
lol? Colossi are by far the least liked unit. It's a slow onedimentional boring a-move unit who would ever like that? Also brings that weird viking/corrupter(to some extend) situation which is really stupid.
Bring us the Reaver, way more versatile, interesting and skillbased.
Btw that oracle and mothershipcore change is pretty retarded. These changes and obviously the Tempest are making me really pessimistic for the addon.
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On September 04 2012 08:52 Fionn wrote:
I'm gonna get a beta key and just make lots of warhounds.
Then a-move.
Nothing can defeat me!
Return of the one supply roach?
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On September 04 2012 08:57 Brahoono wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:38 testthewest wrote:On September 03 2012 20:16 Grumbels wrote:
Or nerfing the Thor because supposedly it obscures vision so was problematic when massed, but not taking that to its logical conclusion and removing the colossus from the game in Heart of the Swarm - a unit that stands literally on top of other units and is widely hated by the community.
How about stop talking as if you knew what "the community" likes. Colossus is a great unit. It forces the opponent into doing things, i can actually win a game. If you wanna talk about a shitty unit, take the void ray. All it does is force a lol of the opponent. lol? Colossi are by far the least liked unit. It's a slow onedimentional boring a-move unit who would ever like that? Also brings that weird viking/corrupter(to some extend) situation which is really stupid. Bring us the Reaver, way more versatile, interesting and skillbased.
Poll from May 14, 2012
Poll: Which unit would you most like to see removed?Colossus (1057) 67% Marauder (181) 11% Roach (92) 6% Other (70) 4% Infestor (69) 4% Corruptor (39) 2% Mothership (23) 1% Banshee (22) 1% Carrier (18) 1% Nydus Worm (10) 1% 1581 total votes Your vote: Which unit would you most like to see removed? (Vote): Colossus
(Vote): Roach
(Vote): Marauder
(Vote): Corruptor
(Vote): Mothership
(Vote): Nydus Worm
(Vote): Carrier
(Vote): Infestor
(Vote): Banshee
(Vote): Other
Poll from May 22, 2012
Poll: Most hated protoss unit?Colossus (348) 71% Sentry (54) 11% Void Ray (31) 6% Stalker (14) 3% Phoenix (13) 3% Mothership (13) 3% Immortal (12) 2% Warp Prism (5) 1% 490 total votes Your vote: Most hated protoss unit? (Vote): Stalker
(Vote): Sentry
(Vote): Immortal
(Vote): Warp Prism
(Vote): Colossus
(Vote): Phoenix
(Vote): Void Ray
(Vote): Mothership
Poll from July 24, 2012
Poll: The most Despised Sc2 UnitCollsi (296) 59% Infestors (100) 20% Marines (36) 7% Brood Lords (23) 5% High Templar (10) 2% Dark Templar (9) 2% Medivacs (5) 1% Phoenix/Voidray (5) 1% Carriers/CattleBruiser (4) 1% Reapers/Helions (4) 1% Banelings (4) 1% Siege Tanks (3) 1% 499 total votes Your vote: The most Despised Sc2 Unit (Vote): Collsi
(Vote): High Templar
(Vote): Medivacs
(Vote): Siege Tanks
(Vote): Brood Lords
(Vote): Infestors
(Vote): Carriers/CattleBruiser
(Vote): Reapers/Helions
(Vote): Dark Templar
(Vote): Marines
(Vote): Banelings
(Vote): Phoenix/Voidray
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On September 04 2012 08:52 Fionn wrote:
I'm gonna get a beta key and just make lots of warhounds.
Then a-move.
Nothing can defeat me!
This. I've been dying to see how the other 2 races feel.
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I'm really worried about how good the swarm host is going to be. It's a cool unit with a cool design and I like it, but I'm not sure when I would use it. Seems like I would always rather just get another infestor, you can't harras with it like a lurker drop did (although I have done it vs lower level people lol), and it seems like in battle they would be hard to really be effective.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4cIEP.jpg)
