|
Byun did his homework. Unfortunate for Nestea, but he should have noticed.
GOM are at fault here, but yeah, can't really take away Byun's win.
|
Gomtv failed so hard. They should have had stop the game right away. Now all results are discredited.
Also players should say it's wrong and don't abuse everything they find.
|
opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On July 12 2012 23:42 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:30 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake? 1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Yes It is definitely Nestea mistake for losing that game.I did said that but to say it was completely Nestea mistake fault for losing Game 1 is just ridiculously. He could be practicing on the Metropolis with depots on.So he clearly wasn't expecting a 2 bunker ramp block and clearly wasn't prepared for it since GSL maps should have removed that possibility. Honestly there are three possible explanations of what happened. 1) NesTea did not practice Metropolis at all. This makes it his own damn fault. 2) NesTea practiced on Metropolis with depots. This makes it his own damn fault for practicing on a wrong map. Unless you are playing on the official map hosted by the official hoster you are accepting the risk that you are playing on the wrong map. 3) NesTea practiced on Metropolis without depots. This makes it his own damn fault for having practice partners that are incapable of seeing a very good opportunity.
probably went
"tehee metropolis zvt 70% no need to practice free win ezpz"
jokes :p
|
On July 12 2012 22:23 XenOsky- wrote:
something really similar happened to BoxeR in an OSL when he wasn't able drop his tanks on a really narrow cliff because the map designer put there the logo of the sponsor...
But on the practice map he could. But now I am sure you cal load official maps for games.
|
On July 12 2012 23:44 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:43 HolyArrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:39 Emix_Squall wrote:
The situation about the depot is real but I love how all the Nestea fanboys are using this to argue he lost the set because of it. That's just plain ridiculous. Byun was just WAAAAAYYYYY better than Nestea today during their set. There's no arguing whether this incident had a big impact on the overall result or not since Nestea got crushed in all 3 games.
Nestea was just not in a good shape while Byun was obviously on top of his game. Posts like this make me wonder if people even understand the concept of player psychology in a Bo5 (or a Bo3, Bo7, etc). It's not as simple "X played well so he would have won anyway". The first set can mean a lot for a player's mentality and can set the pace for the rest of the series, I'm sure any progamer would agree with me on that. I'm not saying Nestea would have won. But it's ridiculous to say that he would have definitely lost. The point is that we just don't know. No. We understand player psychology. Mentality has alot to do with it. But you can't use it to determine the outcome of a series. You dont have magic bro
Uhh... yeah. You can't use it to determine the outcome. I said exactly that, "bro". Read my post again. I explicitly say "The point is that we just don't know [how the series would go]". -_-;;
|
On July 12 2012 23:36 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:30 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake? 1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Yes It is definitely Nestea mistake for losing that game.I did said that but to say it was completely Nestea mistake fault for losing Game 1 is just ridiculously. He could be practicing on the Metropolis with depots on.So he clearly wasn't expecting a 2 bunker ramp block and clearly wasn't prepared for it since GSL maps should have removed that possibility. Fair point, let's restate "It was Nestea's fault that he lost set 1, with some slopiness by GOM involved in creating the circumstances that led to Nestea's mistakes". Peace? 
If only we could close a thread on this one post. But i suppose people are going to wanna bitch about it and make this into a way bigger problem then it actually is. :p
|
Though LG-IM's head coach made a complaint after the end of the second set, GomTV decided there could be no action as there had been no complaint during the actual game.
This I find quite weird, seeing as GomTV has rules in place to discourage player's from pausing a game unless something is very wrong. Obviously Nestea wont pause and risk getting punished for it.
|
I'm glad that they are adding the the depo at the bottom of the ramp again. I can't believe they actually removed it >_<
|
On July 12 2012 23:47 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:44 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 23:43 HolyArrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:39 Emix_Squall wrote:
The situation about the depot is real but I love how all the Nestea fanboys are using this to argue he lost the set because of it. That's just plain ridiculous. Byun was just WAAAAAYYYYY better than Nestea today during their set. There's no arguing whether this incident had a big impact on the overall result or not since Nestea got crushed in all 3 games.
Nestea was just not in a good shape while Byun was obviously on top of his game. Posts like this make me wonder if people even understand the concept of player psychology in a Bo5 (or a Bo3, Bo7, etc). It's not as simple "X played well so he would have won anyway". The first set can mean a lot for a player's mentality and can set the pace for the rest of the series, I'm sure any progamer would agree with me on that. I'm not saying Nestea would have won. But it's ridiculous to say that he would have definitely lost. The point is that we just don't know. No. We understand player psychology. Mentality has alot to do with it. But you can't use it to determine the outcome of a series. You dont have magic bro Uhh... yeah. You can't use it to determine the outcome. I said exactly that, "bro". Read my post again. I explicitly say "The point is that we just don't know [how the series would go]". -_-;;
Somehow i missed the last two sentences. Calm down ,
|
Imagine if Nestea lost 2-3 instead of 0-3, and Byun proceeded to win this GSL.
This would have become the moment you don't forget for years.
I personally think SCV movement inconsistency is a bigger problem.
Nestea lacked skill and attention for sure, but random number generator that decided to move the constructiing SCV into narrow position also contributed to Byun's win. If random number generator decided to move SCV into southern open position, then Nestea would have held much better at least. Almost nothing else in game is decided by random factor like this. I don't know why this isn't a concern. Balance aside, this destroys the whole SC2 concept of "deterministic" game.
|
It's unfortunate that this occurred, but we're lucky that Byun 3-0d anyway, leaving no doubt that he was the stronger player. It would have been much shittier had this occurred in a 3-2 series with the final game coming down to a Bunker rush.
|
On July 12 2012 23:44 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:43 HolyArrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:39 Emix_Squall wrote:
The situation about the depot is real but I love how all the Nestea fanboys are using this to argue he lost the set because of it. That's just plain ridiculous. Byun was just WAAAAAYYYYY better than Nestea today during their set. There's no arguing whether this incident had a big impact on the overall result or not since Nestea got crushed in all 3 games.
Nestea was just not in a good shape while Byun was obviously on top of his game. Posts like this make me wonder if people even understand the concept of player psychology in a Bo5 (or a Bo3, Bo7, etc). It's not as simple "X played well so he would have won anyway". The first set can mean a lot for a player's mentality and can set the pace for the rest of the series, I'm sure any progamer would agree with me on that. I'm not saying Nestea would have won. But it's ridiculous to say that he would have definitely lost. The point is that we just don't know. No. We understand player psychology. Mentality has alot to do with it. But you can't use it to determine the outcome of a series. You dont have magic bro your entire post isn't even relevant to this thread. Your contributing to pollution as well. If you want to make compltains about my posting. Do it in a pm, your just gonna add garbage on top of my so-called garbage when your not even posting about the OP
It is funny because you come off as SUPER defensive. Are people saying they should regame? No. Seems like most people just feel it is unfortunate situation and feel bad for Nestea. And that it MIGHT have affected the later games. You, however, seems to feel 100% certain it had NO impact because Nestea is a 3 time GSL champ and his mentality should be tough enough. Funny how you seem to be an expert on pro player mentalities.
|
opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On July 12 2012 23:50 Shiori wrote:
It's unfortunate that this occurred, but we're lucky that Byun 3-0d anyway, leaving no doubt that he was the stronger player. It would have been much shittier had this occurred in a 3-2 series with the final game coming down to a Bunker rush.
reminds me of another IM multi-gsl champion 
|
On July 12 2012 23:51 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:50 Shiori wrote:
It's unfortunate that this occurred, but we're lucky that Byun 3-0d anyway, leaving no doubt that he was the stronger player. It would have been much shittier had this occurred in a 3-2 series with the final game coming down to a Bunker rush. reminds me of another IM multi-gsl champion
Luckily, back then, Bunker rushes were pretty standard and weren't something you got faked out of by the map.
|
On July 12 2012 23:51 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:50 Shiori wrote:
It's unfortunate that this occurred, but we're lucky that Byun 3-0d anyway, leaving no doubt that he was the stronger player. It would have been much shittier had this occurred in a 3-2 series with the final game coming down to a Bunker rush. reminds me of another IM multi-gsl champion
Wow, imagine if this actaully happened in G7 of MVP vs Squirtle!!!
|
On July 12 2012 23:49 Chenz wrote:Show nested quote +Though LG-IM's head coach made a complaint after the end of the second set, GomTV decided there could be no action as there had been no complaint during the actual game. This I find quite weird, seeing as GomTV has rules in place to discourage player's from pausing a game unless something is very wrong. Obviously Nestea wont pause and risk getting punished for it.
If a map bug (about which you complain after the game) isnt "very wrong" - then what is?
Still weird that not many ppl seem to have noticed this bug earlier, crazy^^
|
Ridiculous that naniwa got harsh punishment for being unprofessional by probe rushing but when byun act unprofessionally by abusing a bug that he known had existed, he got away with it.
|
On July 12 2012 23:55 havox_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:49 Chenz wrote:Though LG-IM's head coach made a complaint after the end of the second set, GomTV decided there could be no action as there had been no complaint during the actual game. This I find quite weird, seeing as GomTV has rules in place to discourage player's from pausing a game unless something is very wrong. Obviously Nestea wont pause and risk getting punished for it. If a map bug (about which you complain after the game) isnt "very wrong" - then what is? Still weird that not many ppl seem to have noticed this bug earlier, crazy^^
Seeing as the change had been in place for over a week, there was no reason for anyone to assume it wasn't an intentional change by GomTV.
On July 12 2012 23:56 MaNaVoId wrote:
Ridiculous that naniwa got harsh punishment for being unprofessional by probe rushing but when byun act unprofessionally by abusing a bug that he known had existed, he got away with it.
Why would he think it was a bug? As has been pointed out, this version of the map has been in use for two weeks.
|
Ohhhhh shit.
Wow.
Poor Nestea ;___; though Byun really did prepare well, that just sucks for Nestea :/
|
That's really unfortunate. Not sure how much it might have mattered - Nestea got completely outplayed in the other two games. Good on Byun - kid did his homework and played extremely well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
