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On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake?
It is a very different scenario here, because they've been playing Metropolis for some time. There's a good chance that when they originally analyzed it back when it first came out, they considered whether the ramp wall-off was still viable. From then on, they would not bother to re-check something that should be a foregone conclusion, since it would normally be a waste of time. The fact that the map was changed without notice is a big difference here.
If Nestea realized the missing supply depot, then he would also have been mentally prepared for this possibility, and there's a good chance that his response would have been much smarter.
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On July 12 2012 23:25 MaNaVoId wrote:
Lost all respect for byun for not reporting the bug to GOM even though he noticed it beforehand
...he didn't report a map change that GOM made (intentionally or not). I hope you are just trying to start a flame war.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 12 2012 23:31 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:25 MaNaVoId wrote:
Lost all respect for byun for not reporting the bug to GOM even though he noticed it beforehand ...he didn't report a map change that GOM made (intentionally or not). I hope you are just trying to start a flame war.
he's just a massive prime antifan
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On July 12 2012 23:25 MaNaVoId wrote:
Lost all respect for byun for not reporting the bug to GOM even though he noticed it beforehand
Did you lose all respect for ByuN's entire team for not reporting it to GOM and practicing with Byun on the map without the neutral depot?
Byun said that he noticed the depot was missing and then checked previous games played on the map and noticed that the depot was missing for awhile. Why should he assume he's the only person that noticed that and that Gom didn't know about it? You can't really blame Gom or the mapmaker either, because it's such a small change and professional players playing on the map didn't even notice it aside from Byun.
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As competitors (hopefully) interested in a fair match that adheres completely to the rules and regulated maps, the onus is upon both players to report a problem with the map, not just the player that the problem is detrimental toward.
I'll give Byun the benefit of doubt here and assume that he just thought the version without depots was the right one because Byun is a good guy and I doubt he'd try to purposely say nothing about a map problem just to try to sneak a win, but I fail to see how it was solely Nestea's responsibility to point out the bug.
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lol. Almost 10 pages. Nestea Fanboy Defense-FUCKING DEPOT COST THE SERIES
It hasn't changed yet, when we have stated about 10 different things that Nestea fucked up on, the fanboys come back with the same old map excuse. And then trying to use the mental aspect, like they can judge that, and make a conclusion off of it
Shit, he only pulled 2 drones, he would have lost to a normal bunker rush even if the depot was there
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On July 12 2012 23:30 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake? Stop being so narrow minded. 1) Nestea had no reason to believe that he was practicing on the wrong version of the map (it shouldn't have been the wrong version; no announcement was made by GOM). Therefore no reason to believe he would be bunker blocked. 2) Can't really decide on this to be honest. It depends on what actions would be taken after the pause. 3) Nestea knows more than you about how to defend a 2 rax.
Of course the practicing problem is his mistake, regardless of any announcements made by GOM. Unless you practice all the time on the official map hosted by the official hoster you are knowingly and willingly putting yourself in a position where it turns out you played on the wrong map.
What would have happened after the pause? They would have picked the correct version or if that for some reason didn't exist on Battle Net at all they would have picked either another map or possibly even a regame. A regame would still have given Byun the option to do it again but with NesTea knowing it it shouldn't do any damage.
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I'm just glad that Byun crushed NesTea in the other games, so that we don't have all the controversy of "Byun only manged to advance 3-2 because of the free-win on metropolis.
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On July 12 2012 23:30 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake? 1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Yes It is definitely Nestea mistake for losing that game.I did said that but to say it was completely Nestea mistake fault for losing Game 1 is just ridiculously. He could be practicing on the Metropolis with depots on.So he clearly wasn't expecting a 2 bunker ramp block and clearly wasn't prepared for it since GSL maps should have removed that possibility.
Fair point, let's restate "It was Nestea's fault that he lost set 1, with some slopiness by GOM involved in creating the circumstances that led to Nestea's mistakes". Peace? 
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On July 12 2012 23:34 ohampatu wrote:
lol. Almost 10 pages. Nestea Fanboy Defense-FUCKING DEPOT COST THE SERIES
It hasn't changed yet, when we have stated about 10 different things that Nestea fucked up on, the fanboys come back with the same old map excuse. And then trying to use the mental aspect, like they can judge that, and make a conclusion off of it
Shit, he only pulled 2 drones, he would have lost to a normal bunker rush even if the depot was there
You are here to only bait aren't you? Almost nobody said it went like that...
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On July 12 2012 23:32 MVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:25 MaNaVoId wrote:
Lost all respect for byun for not reporting the bug to GOM even though he noticed it beforehand Did you lose all respect for ByuN's entire team for not reporting it to GOM and practicing with Byun on the map without the neutral depot? Byun said that he noticed the depot was missing and then checked previous games played on the map and noticed that the depot was missing for awhile. Why should he assume he's the only person that noticed that and that Gom didn't know about it? You can't really blame Gom or the mapmaker either, because it's such a small change and professional players playing on the map didn't even notice it aside from Byun.
Really, if you want to take all the 'nestea' fanboys 'reactions' as legit. We have to assume that all KR programers are fucking terrible at their jobs. They dont practice on maps they are supposed to. They dont scout the map when they are playing. They dont watch GSL/GSTL at all, etc/etc. The excuses are mind blowing
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That's so unfortunate for Nestea =/
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On July 12 2012 23:36 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:34 ohampatu wrote:
lol. Almost 10 pages. Nestea Fanboy Defense-FUCKING DEPOT COST THE SERIES
It hasn't changed yet, when we have stated about 10 different things that Nestea fucked up on, the fanboys come back with the same old map excuse. And then trying to use the mental aspect, like they can judge that, and make a conclusion off of it
Shit, he only pulled 2 drones, he would have lost to a normal bunker rush even if the depot was there You are here to only bait aren't you? Almost nobody said it went like that...
if i could bait a response that wasn't 'goms' fault, or somethign to do with mental aspects that be fine.
But when there are still 1 sentence posts saying things like 'lost all respect for byun', 'gom is so terrible for not catching this', etc, its hard to have a conversation. And ive made multiple 'paragraph' long posts, idk how thats baiting. But yea, that one your quoting was me replying a little to heatedly.
But you should read other posts before judging , id actually like a legit discussion, i just dont think its possible because this isn't a controversy thing, and my attempts have been spammed by fanboys, as have other peoples attempts
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The situation about the depot is real but I love how all the Nestea fanboys are using this to argue he lost the set because of it. That's just plain ridiculous. Byun was just WAAAAAYYYYY better than Nestea today during their set. There's no arguing whether this incident had a big impact on the overall result or not since Nestea got crushed in all 3 games.
Nestea was just not in a good shape while Byun was obviously on top of his game.
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On July 12 2012 23:36 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:30 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake? 1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Yes It is definitely Nestea mistake for losing that game.I did said that but to say it was completely Nestea mistake fault for losing Game 1 is just ridiculously. He could be practicing on the Metropolis with depots on.So he clearly wasn't expecting a 2 bunker ramp block and clearly wasn't prepared for it since GSL maps should have removed that possibility. Fair point, let's restate "It was Nestea's fault that he lost set 1, with some slopiness by GOM involved in creating the circumstances that led to Nestea's mistakes". Peace?
Yeah i guess you could put it that way.Peace i guess.
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On July 12 2012 23:30 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:24 Wroshe wrote:On July 12 2012 23:20 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 ACrow wrote:On July 12 2012 23:03 FakeDeath wrote:On July 12 2012 22:56 ohampatu wrote:On July 12 2012 22:54 Lorch wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 baldgye wrote:
thats not what cost NesTea that game, what cost him the game was totally failing to block, or deal with it. The fact that he didn't know that depo wouldn't be there showed a lack of practice and game analysis that Byun had. We have depots on every fucking map for a reason, it's certainly not nestea fault for not defending a build that is considered so fucked up that we modified every single map to make sure it's not possible. What is his faults, goms fault and pretty much everyones fault who was at that studio since they disappeared to not notice the change. If this series would have went 3-2 in byuns favor there would be a huge amount of rage going on atm. As it stands nestea got stomped anyways... Actually. Its completely Nestea's fault. He let that scv live with 5 hp. He also knew about the no depot change before the first minute of the game was up (before he scouted 2 rax). He could have complained, manned up and won anyway, or numerous o ther things. Nestea is the only person who didn't notice, and some of you fans apparently (its been like this for 3 weeks now almost). Byun stomped Nestea. Hard. Get over it No just no. The guy you quoted said make more sense. Byun did completely outplayed Nestea in the entire series overall but to say it is completely Nestea fault for losing Game 1 is ridculously stupid. There is a reason why there is a neutral depot in every natural ramp is every GSL map. GSL made a blunder and it is also partially Nestea fault for not defending it well. Let me ask you: 1. Byun and Nestea had the same map to prepare for. One notices a map imbalance in his practice, the other does not. Noticing anything in thorough training and trying out map-specific strats is a very important aspect of a drawn-out, preparation based league such as the GSL (as opposed to more marathon-like tournaments such as MLG). 2. Pulling TWO drones to defend against a scouted 11-11 rax is generally considered to be not enough of a reaction (regardless of "normal" 11-11 rax or this variant with the ramp wall-off). If you agree with either of these two statements, then I don't see how you could not agree with the statement " Its completely Nestea's fault. ", because either of these two statements necessarily imply the latter. Don't really want to argue over this since we clearly have different opinions on this matter. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake? 1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Yes It is definitely Nestea mistake for losing that game.I did said that but to say it was completely Nestea mistake fault for losing Game 1 is just ridiculously. He could be practicing on the Metropolis with depots on.So he clearly wasn't expecting a 2 bunker ramp block and clearly wasn't prepared for it since GSL maps should have removed that possibility.
Honestly there are three possible explanations of what happened.
1) NesTea did not practice Metropolis at all.
This makes it his own damn fault.
2) NesTea practiced on Metropolis with depots.
This makes it his own damn fault for practicing on a wrong map. Unless you are playing on the official map hosted by the official hoster you are accepting the risk that you are playing on the wrong map.
3) NesTea practiced on Metropolis without depots.
This makes it his own damn fault for having practice partners that are incapable of seeing a very good opportunity.
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Fuck, this sucks. It really felt like that first game put Nestea on a huge tilt, he looked devastated after game 1. Goddamnit.
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On July 12 2012 23:39 Emix_Squall wrote:
The situation about the depot is real but I love how all the Nestea fanboys are using this to argue he lost the set because of it. That's just plain ridiculous. Byun was just WAAAAAYYYYY better than Nestea today during their set. There's no arguing whether this incident had a big impact on the overall result or not since Nestea got crushed in all 3 games.
Nestea was just not in a good shape while Byun was obviously on top of his game.
Posts like this make me wonder if people even understand the concept of player psychology in a Bo5 (or a Bo3, Bo7, etc). It's not as simple "X played well so he would have won anyway". The first set can mean a lot for a player's mentality and can set the pace for the rest of the series, I'm sure any progamer would agree with me on that. I'm not saying Nestea would have won. But it's ridiculous to say that he would have definitely lost. The point is that we just don't know.
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On July 12 2012 23:39 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:36 Assirra wrote:On July 12 2012 23:34 ohampatu wrote:
lol. Almost 10 pages. Nestea Fanboy Defense-FUCKING DEPOT COST THE SERIES
It hasn't changed yet, when we have stated about 10 different things that Nestea fucked up on, the fanboys come back with the same old map excuse. And then trying to use the mental aspect, like they can judge that, and make a conclusion off of it
Shit, he only pulled 2 drones, he would have lost to a normal bunker rush even if the depot was there You are here to only bait aren't you? Almost nobody said it went like that... if i could bait a response that wasn't 'goms' fault, or somethign to do with mental aspects that be fine. But when there are still 1 sentence posts saying things like 'lost all respect for byun', 'gom is so terrible for not catching this', etc, its hard to have a conversation. And ive made multiple 'paragraph' long posts, idk how thats baiting. But yea, that one your quoting was me replying a little to heatedly. But you should read other posts before judging , id actually like a legit discussion, i just dont think its possible because this isn't a controversy thing, and my attempts have been spammed by fanboys, as have other peoples attempts
There's probably about 50% legitimate discussion, and 50% garbage in this thread. By responding to the garbage with statements like this:
On July 12 2012 23:34 ohampatu wrote:
lol. Almost 10 pages. Nestea Fanboy Defense-FUCKING DEPOT COST THE SERIES
You are contributing to the problem, and helping to pollute the discussion.
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On July 12 2012 23:43 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:39 Emix_Squall wrote:
The situation about the depot is real but I love how all the Nestea fanboys are using this to argue he lost the set because of it. That's just plain ridiculous. Byun was just WAAAAAYYYYY better than Nestea today during their set. There's no arguing whether this incident had a big impact on the overall result or not since Nestea got crushed in all 3 games.
Nestea was just not in a good shape while Byun was obviously on top of his game. Posts like this make me wonder if people even understand the concept of player psychology in a Bo5 (or a Bo3, Bo7, etc). It's not as simple "X played well so he would have won anyway". The first set can mean a lot for a player's mentality and can set the pace for the rest of the series, I'm sure any progamer would agree with me on that. I'm not saying Nestea would have won. But it's ridiculous to say that he would have definitely lost. The point is that we just don't know.
No. We understand player psychology. Mentality has alot to do with it.
But you can't use it to determine the outcome of a series. You dont have magic bro
You are contributing to the problem, and helping to pollute the discussion.
your entire post isn't even relevant to this thread. Your contributing to pollution as well. If you want to make compltains about my posting. Do it in a pm, your just gonna add garbage on top of my so-called garbage when your not even posting about the OP
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EPT
