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On May 24 2012 16:59 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 16:26 coolcor wrote:No look at that page that is not the subscription link. http://day9.tv/tipjar/It is below the subscription link and it is for people who are already subscribing to give even more. Thats why is says "offer additional support" Anyone who does it is not doing it for monobattles. If the people do give him money just because they enjoy the content day9 has no reason to say "The subscription revenue, while helpful, only partially defrays the cost of operating Day[9]TV." Why not? Because it's free? Show nested quote +
If his business is not losing money this is a very misleading sentence. Thats what I don't like it is misleading your most loyal fans to get more money that they would not give if they had more correct information.
The show is free, but the show also costs money to make. It's not misleading. Show nested quote +f you have the means to offer additional support so that Day[9] can continue his efforts to grow eSports, He does not say the donation is to thank him for enjoying his content. It's implied. It's also to thank him for his contributions to esports as a whole and not just the show. He also thanks you back for donating by playing monobattles with you, and putting extra donations back into esports to bring awesome tournaments or lans, such as the AHGL. Show nested quote +
It is to continue to grow esports. A very vague goal with no meaning besides imply he'd stop his efforts without donations.
Day[9] has undoubtedly grown esports, that is just fact. If you like how he has helped esports grow so far, you may donate extra money. Show nested quote +
Would he quit esports all together without donations? I doubt it so I also find this misleading.
Do you think he was getting subscribers and donations when he started the daily in the first place? No, he was not. He's obviously doing the show because he WANTS to do the show. Show nested quote +
In conclusion I don't think is nice to write very misleading statements when asking for donations. Non misleading donation requests are ok because the donor has true information to make their decision.
The statements are only misleading when you purposefully misinterpret them.
I dunno I still feel like the vast majority of people with no other info who read subscription revenue, while helpful, only partially defrays the cost of operating Day[9]TV would think donations are necessary to prevent him from losing money so they would be encouraged to do that. There aren't many ways to interpret revenue<cost.
Thus making it misleading if he in fact does the opposite and makes lots of money the whole time because revenue>cost. He said Day[9]TV so it is his entire business not just the daily and people in the industry seem to imply it is super profitable but if I'm wrong and day9 does not make any money after costs I'm sorry.
He also thanks you back for donating by playing monobattles with you, no I just said this he thanks subscribers with monobattles not donators. Go the the page they are separate and I have no problem with the subscriber part just the donator part.
But if I'm mistaken and misinterpreted it then I'm sorry. I still think that donation paragraph is bad but I'll still be enjoying him cast the battlegrounds anyways 
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to be honest most performers/ perfomring artists tend to be fucked up one way or another so how could day9 even be specail in that regard..
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On May 24 2012 19:11 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 18:48 Pwnographics wrote:On May 24 2012 18:47 DaveVAH wrote:On May 24 2012 17:36 R3DT1D3 wrote:
Even so, being good enough to make what would likely be Masters in the current ladder with all three races is nothing to sneeze at.
Where is the proof that he is masters? in fact where is the proof that he plays any sc2 at all? Thats one of the big reasons people think he is a fake. No one has seen him playing the game he claims to love and makes loads of money off of. Because he gets master level knowledge by asking his chat right? Master level knowledge judged by who? He thinks seeker missiles are "stupidly good" and likes to talk about mech use in TvP. That sounds more like gold level talk to me. No one has ever seen him play sc2 competitively. No one. His claim that he has had 3 gm accounts seem very hollow if not an outright lie.
The winner of WCG America in BW who beat Artosis, IdrA, Incontrol, is gold in SC2. I like your 30 post logic buddy.
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I think the whole problem is related to SC2 fans being largely a group of late teens/college age guys. Among whom a large proportion are liberals. Now not to make it political but social ideologies generally have a lot of envy associated, anti-profit, egalitarian ideas that are against personal financial success. I think a lot of people would do well to reconsider their world view and maybe try to be less hostile against people trying to make riches.
User was warned for this post
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On May 24 2012 19:15 smallerk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 19:11 figq wrote:On May 24 2012 19:03 smallerk wrote:On May 24 2012 19:01 figq wrote:
Only people who basically don't understand the core of the work that Day[9] does are throwing mud on him. Idra is an exception, but Idra often throws mud on all kinds of people.
Seriously, 2GD (as much as I like the guy) or that esports journalist who got the hand, are so far from appreciating the depth of strategy analysis, and methodology for strategy development, which Day[9] has provided for the community (for free!) over the years. They probably don't even realize how much Day[9]'s work has pushed the competitive level of foreign RTS as a whole, simply because he helped a ton of people (for free! again) to actually start playing RTS efficiently and think productively and actually make progress - thus pushing the level of everybody up and up. Yeah, you're probably right, 2GD doesn't realize shit about esports, who is he again?Last time i checked analyzing RTS games didn't make you into a diva. 2GD just started learning RTS, like a few days ago, yes. I don't care he's pro at quake or other games, that's absolutely irrelevant. His experience with any game is irrelevant to determine if day9 is a shit person or not. I don't give a god damn no fuck if Day[9] is a shit person or he likes to kill puppies with his thought hammer.
He provided a great deal of analysis and methodology for the RTS community for free, for years, starting with a whole lot of Broodwar - from the position of panamerican champion, world WCG top 16 finisher etc - and then a whole lot of SC2. He single-handedly with A TON OF WORK raised the proficiency of foreign RTS and the interest in RTS at all, which of course was much lower when most people couldn't even learn how to play it right.
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Being liberal has nothing to do with it, while being predominantly teenagers steeped in stupid reddit/4chan cynicism and mind-numbing meme shit has everything to do with it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 24 2012 19:17 coolcor wrote:
Thus making it misleading if he in fact does the opposite and makes lots of money the whole time because revenue>cost. He said Day[9]TV so it is his entire business not just the daily and people in the industry seem to imply it is super profitable but if I'm wrong and day9 does not make any money after costs I'm sorry.
I think you are not correct here. Day9tv is the entity that does the dailies and the AHGL, and I'm pretty sure that most money from that company goes right back into paying employees and expenses. And even if it did comprise everything day9 did, you say that the issue is whether or not day9 makes any money after costs... but really the question is, do subscriptions alone cover the costs of the day9 daily? If his revenue > cost honestly that's fine, what you somehow overlooked is that you're talking about subscription revenue > cost which is something very different.
Like, yes he could use money he gets from casting tournaments to fund his daily and pay for employees and expenses from it, and he probably does, but I don't get why everyone's like "lol we can't have day9 making a living. No eating for you sean plott! starve!" or whatever. If the guy wanted to make money, he'd take his degree from the prestigious harvey mudd college tech school and his graduate degree from USC and go make some serious bank doing something. he gives up a lot of income to be a caster...
On May 24 2012 19:20 storkfan wrote:
I think the whole problem is related to SC2 fans being largely a group of late teens/college age guys. Among whom a large proportion are liberals. Now not to make it political but social ideologies generally have a lot of envy associated, anti-profit, egalitarian ideas that are against personal financial success. I think a lot of people would do well to reconsider their world view and maybe try to be less hostile against people trying to make riches.
This strikes me as utterly preposterous. First off, the sc2 community is bigger than just whatever ideas of "liberal" and "conservative" exist in the US. Secondly, people can be dicks and/or not respect what day9 has done for the community and/or not understand the evidence and/or be immature teenagers completely independent of political alignment.
Like, i don't even see how this is remotely relevant.
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I think its rediculous how much crap Day9 is getting from people saying he is "too G rated" or "too politically correct." I seriously don't want to hear some dolt say "yo that play was boss man, he did some serious bitchin shit."
I don't watch the dailies, but from what I have seen and heard of Day9 I have enjoyed his contributions to casting, etc. He seems like a great guy and he only adds to a cast. I prefer Tastosis to Husky/D9, but thats mostly because I dislike Husky's casting.
Are we seriously listening to the opinions of some random non-SC2 gamer and Idra as canon? Do we expect these people to have an unbiased view of the situation? Day9 has called out idra on SotG for not just manning up and learning new playstyles, and I think Idra is probably just buthurt about this. Day9 didn't spend 5 minutes talking to some random guy he met at MLG? He works 14 hour days and sees people who want his time all day long. These should definitely be our contexts for judgement of him.
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Day[9] has a freaking song written about him. (Search youtube. If it already hasn't been dropped in this thread.) It's quite true that a wide swathe of the community really love him, and (like any others) his rabid fans will get upset if you jab at him. Same thing applies though to a number of figures in eSports. His brother Nick, for example. Or TotalBiscuit. Or Victorycat. (I hope Victorycat has rabid fans. It can be helpful to a new mother.) Or Idra.
This sounds like it's just a continuation of the "casters make more than players" kerfluffle that I vaguely remember a few months back. Day[9]'s finances are, of course, his own. However, people are making a lot of assumptions on what his potential income is, without looking at ANY of his liabilities. The guy has to pay for bandwidth to his site (the more popular it is, the more it costs), hosting/colo costs, business overhead, travel costs, any staff he may have (I think it's a pretty small company - internet startups can do that), healthcare... and a bunch of things I can't come up with. His company can't do too bad (Forbes did a blurb on him once) but that's only his company. There's also things like paying off his student debt (not sure if he made a lot in his prior progaming career, to avoid having some kind of student debt for going to both undergraduate and graduate school), food, rent, etc.
Honestly, if Day[9] was really making as much money as you think he is, would he still have a roommate and be casting his daily show from his room? Internet advertising is not a very profitable business model (look at Facebook, already being sued by its shareholders) - it doesn't carry the kind of return many people think it does. It can be profitable for some, but not for all. Mercenary casting (ie, he doesn't really stick to only one organization) is much better. Not sure if he makes any money on the events he does - but then that's no different from IPL or MLG.
As for donation - it's more like that check box on US tax forms. "Give $3 to presidential candidates?" Sure, some people check that box. I don't. Both parties are huge moneymaking concerns, but people give them money. If you want to give financial support to something, for whatever reason, you can. If you don't, you don't. Simple.
Now, if Day[9] were to post a donation link in this thread with a heartfelt plea, pictures of starving probes and scvs, and bounce it through a Russian malware server - maybe then get the pitchforks.
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Scumbag who doesn't format correctly.
"Just as a sidenote computercompanies besides Intel don`t support esports that much.If you are talking about Razer I seriously doubt you spend about 2000 usdollars on a gaming laptop considering that you are building your pc and most of the companies have premade systems available.But nevertheless the information is unverifiable
Again, if you can find someone to finance the scene better then our those currently tossing us crumbs, tell us where.
I also hate seeing politically correct corect internetusers such as yourself throwing the word `community` around when most of the viewers form tournaments who keep the sc2 scene alive(that is the tenths of thousands of viewers needed for a tournament to be succesfull)only watch a tournament for specific stars and drama.just watch as the ratings go down when a well known celebrity leaves a tournament.But you don`t care about that now do you.Personally if you consider my post garbage,i consider you garbage also and yes users such as yourself are a plague to the esports community.
Unsubstantiated garbage. People watch a number of different reasons. If a tournament can fill all those requirements, great casters, great players, great production, then people will watch. All components are important. Casters have an extremely important role in being the frontline of entry into the scene for those uneducated in the game.
In reference to the last few sentences: I have so many creative insults floating around in my head, but I shan't give you the satisfaction.
You don`t make any sense.You don`t watch him yet state he is interesting and helpfull for the community.This is exactly my point.Who watches Day9?How do you know he is doing good if you don`t watch him?"
If other people enjoy watching him, then more power to them. He entertains people, he expands the games influence to a broader audience and he looks for ways to include corporate interests so to bring in more money.
He is most certainly not a detracting influence for sc2, and therefore he may do as he pleases in my eyes.
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Well, he seems nice on camera but he is a human, i think if i would be at his position i would like to make 20$k...All of this public people (actors, singers, public figures) they seem nice, but once you take camera off of them, they became vile corrupted people (most of them)...
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 24 2012 19:25 felisconcolori wrote:
Day[9] has a freaking song written about him. (Search youtube. If it already hasn't been dropped in this thread.)
It's called "Day9 made me do it" :D I've included it inside the spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 24 2012 19:25 felisconcolori wrote:
Now, if Day[9] were to post a donation link in this thread with a heartfelt plea, pictures of starving probes and scvs, and bounce it through a Russian malware server - maybe then get the pitchforks.
Except for the bounce through the Russian malware server, I'd find this utterly hilarious. Seriously though the man's gotta eat and if people want to GO to his donate page and click on his donate button and give him money, who are we to say they can't do that?
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On May 24 2012 19:14 parduebob11 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 19:06 Kyuki wrote:On May 24 2012 18:52 parduebob11 wrote:On May 24 2012 18:47 Kyuki wrote:
People who are extremly public will always falter at times and Day9 is without fail the biggest personality in the industry, so it's only natural.
Dude what planet are you living on?day9 the biggest personality in the industry?What industry?he is a successfull caster,I give him that but there are tons of personalitites that keep sc2 alive for fans.MKP,Violet,Idra,naniwa,Incontrol,MC,MMA,Nestea and virtually every single progamer out there is more known than day9.When I watch a tournament I watch it because I want to see MKP vs DRG or Squirtle or MVp not some caster. Dude, what world are YOU living in. Learn to read, I never said there were no other personality that helps this industry, because they're all joint, but Day9 has done alot of things for this community and by doing that he's also gained alot of fame not only inside the community but outside of it promoting e-sports and SC2. I can almost promise you that more people know about Day9 than any of the names you put out there, especially the players (sadly). Why do I even respond to your post, seems to me you just wanted to say that there are other people in the industry that does alot of good (which was never up for discussion, because it's pretty damn obvious and not related to this topic). Reread your initial post man.You specified Day9 is the most wellknown perosnality in the sc2 industry.Which is completly fake and stupid.All major progamers are more wellknown than day9.The fact that Day9 does good for the community I give him that-he is a grinder and works dayly to put that analysis of his on youtube.
Day9 has been a caster for each and every major sc2 tournament to date (he used to cast IEM as well). Also, he has his Dailies, he's doing casual stuff like playing amnesia, promoting games, going to panels promoting esports. He's been in freaking forbes. In comparison to a player like MKP, he's a billion times more well known. Of course hardcore sc2 players will think of a player first instead of a caster when asked about who's the most well known sc2 guy. But you're not the majority, neither am I. My girlfriend knows Day[9]. She will just look at me puzzled when I mention MarineKingPrime.
Hell, I'm sure there are more people who know Husky or DjWheat than MKP in the western world.
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day9 is extremely narcissistic
I don't think anyone understands that he has a niche following and doesn't really appeal to the mainstream. He basically just fits this role of super pumped nerd that loves to hear his own voice and ideas.
As long as day9 is a main caster only nerds will watch. Tastosis has a lot more mainstream appeal than day9 / anyone. I can't stand day 9 at all, when he first started doing shows (sc:bw) and had maybe 100 viewers it was okay but the ego is really affecting him and he honestly thinks he is better than the pros in these tournaments. He's like secretly super insecure too and at every point must mention how much better he is than X.
User was warned for this post
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Ah, Starcraft community. Still as pitchforky as ever.
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On May 24 2012 19:25 Shai wrote:
I think its rediculous how much crap Day9 is getting from people saying he is "too G rated" or "too politically correct." I seriously don't want to hear some dolt say "yo that play was boss man, he did some serious bitchin shit."
I don't watch the dailies, but from what I have seen and heard of Day9 I have enjoyed his contributions to casting, etc. He seems like a great guy and he only adds to a cast. I prefer Tastosis to Husky/D9, but thats mostly because I dislike Husky's casting.
Are we seriously listening to the opinions of some random non-SC2 gamer and Idra as canon? Do we expect these people to have an unbiased view of the situation? Day9 has called out idra on SotG for not just manning up and learning new playstyles, and I think Idra is probably just buthurt about this. Day9 didn't spend 5 minutes talking to some random guy he met at MLG? He works 14 hour days and sees people who want his time all day long. These should definitely be our contexts for judgement of him.
I actually consider husky to being a very good blend of politically correctness and amusement.Husky is a funny caster in the right circumstances.Day9 seems like Obama reading text out of a prompter.No problem with that,just saying that some people might want some more lighthearted,personal,internet humor.As far as him not wanting to talk to some random esport writer I think Day9 made the right call.I mean he does have the right to refuse to talk to people who he doesn`t know or does not want to talk to.This personal drama of his is actually making him look more interesting.
Imagine the writer walking up to Day9 and Sean is extending is hand and goes like:`talk to the hand`.Some funny stuff right there.Should have filmed it.
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The winner of WCG America in BW who beat Artosis, IdrA, Incontrol, is gold in SC2. I like your 30 post logic buddy.
Being pro at bw doesn't mean you will be good at a completely different game, nor that you will love that game. especially if you don't play it for years.
what people are saying is that he doesn't give a shit about sc2 and doesn't play the game any-more as there is no evidence for it. But he is making loads of money off it and pretending to be something he is not (ie super nice all the time or GM with 3 races)
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So much jealousy in this thread. The guy is a good face for e-sports. SO WHAT if he wants to earn some cash of his passion. This is his careerer now. He has every right to earn as much money as he wants.
Seriously though, stop being bitter and jealous and go find something your passionate about and work hard at it. Then see how you feel.
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With regards to the 2GD incident, I would reckon that no one can say too much either way. The vast majority of this forum have probably never met any of them, and going to conclusion to either of their "real-life" personas wont be to productive, as it seems to depend a lot on hearsay.
But the problem that many, including Idra (if I am not mistaken, and if I am i apologize), is that he has often in his Day9 daylies complained about paying his rent, that donations are welcome. I think many people feel a bit confused when they now finds out that he probably makes more than enough to cover his costs on the dailies while still being able to leave a comfortable life. If the figures of what he earns on a weekend casting is correct (xx xxx$), he should not be complaining about his rent, income or advertise to much about donating to him and his site. In my opinion at least.
Can you donate to people making a lot of money? Sure, but it would also make a lot of people think that their money is used better elsewhere. This is the main problem, regarding his financial situation.
Basically putting up a front of being a struggling artist (while making more money than most of the guys on these forums) and then asking for donations puts a lot of people off when they later learn that he makes five-figured sums for each casting job.
That is just my take on it.
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On May 24 2012 19:21 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 19:15 smallerk wrote:On May 24 2012 19:11 figq wrote:On May 24 2012 19:03 smallerk wrote:On May 24 2012 19:01 figq wrote:
Only people who basically don't understand the core of the work that Day[9] does are throwing mud on him. Idra is an exception, but Idra often throws mud on all kinds of people.
Seriously, 2GD (as much as I like the guy) or that esports journalist who got the hand, are so far from appreciating the depth of strategy analysis, and methodology for strategy development, which Day[9] has provided for the community (for free!) over the years. They probably don't even realize how much Day[9]'s work has pushed the competitive level of foreign RTS as a whole, simply because he helped a ton of people (for free! again) to actually start playing RTS efficiently and think productively and actually make progress - thus pushing the level of everybody up and up. Yeah, you're probably right, 2GD doesn't realize shit about esports, who is he again?Last time i checked analyzing RTS games didn't make you into a diva. 2GD just started learning RTS, like a few days ago, yes. I don't care he's pro at quake or other games, that's absolutely irrelevant. His experience with any game is irrelevant to determine if day9 is a shit person or not. I don't give a god damn no fuck if Day[9] is a shit person or he likes to kill puppies with his thought hammer. He provided a great deal of analysis and methodology for the RTS community for free, for years, starting with a whole lot of Broodwar - from the position of panamerican champion, world WCG top 16 finisher etc - and then a whole lot of SC2. He single-handedly with A TON OF WORK raised the proficiency of foreign RTS and the interest in RTS at all, which of course was much lower when most people couldn't even learn how to play it right.
You are missing the point of the thread.
Plenty of good RTS analysers that aren't two faced, treat people like shit at live events, or beg for donations they don't need.
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EPT
