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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today.
I was gonna get involved in this thread, but I think I'll just bump this. +10000 esports points for actually being reasonable/cogent in a Destiny thread.
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On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right.
This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.
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On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right. This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.
If you buy his sponsors products you are supporting him...............
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On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right. This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.
Yeah, wide reaching implications to players who actively use racial slurs in their laddering. Don't be absurd.
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On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right. This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.
Too bad even in the most civilized forums, you'll still have people who are at the same level of kids on facebook who are desperate to gather as many "likes" as possible. Quite sad for a community of such a complex game.
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On May 05 2012 06:45 HorsemasterK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today. I was gonna get involved in this thread, but I think I'll just bump this. +10000 esports points for actually being reasonable/cogent in a Destiny thread.
I also done from this thread. This post is allot more resaonbile that any thing i brought up in this thread xD
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On May 05 2012 06:41 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:39 StarStrider wrote:
Just FYI to anyone with the wrong facts, the Quantic team sponsorship is small stuff compared to his income, popularity, and publicity from his personal stream. he really fucked himself then when he took a shit on the tl.net website/mods and got himself banned from the sidebar.
Yeah that was the only thing that he said that I think was truly in his worst interest. In SC2, getting banned from TL is a big hindrance to your stream viewership.
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On May 05 2012 06:47 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 StarStrider wrote:
Just FYI to anyone with the wrong facts, the Quantic team sponsorship is small stuff compared to his income, popularity, and publicity from his personal stream. he really fucked himself then when he took a shit on the tl.net website/mods and got himself banned from the sidebar. Yeah that was the only thing that he said that I think was truly in his worst interest. In SC2, getting banned from TL is a big hindrance to your stream viewership.
yep. they didnt even do that to idra who was banned for 90 days after he sent his minions against chill. its like destiny has an agenda of screwing himself over as much as possible.
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The freedom of speech that is protected by laws in this country that allowed Destiny to say those words also allowed people the freedom to go complain to Quantic and Razer.
Remember, what goes around always comes back around. This whole situation is just that; nothing more nothing less. Personally, I just try to live my life by the golden rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself, whether it be in "real" life or the internet.
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On May 05 2012 06:41 Pudge_172 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:35 Smat wrote:On May 05 2012 06:27 Pudge_172 wrote:
What shocks me most is how many people are supportive of the use of blatantly offensive/racists speech. While one can legally use such speech, one must also face the consequences of using such speech.
I would hate to see the young people watching he stream go up to several fine African Americans and call them the n word.
People need to learn to be civil when dealing with each other. Hate speech is not funny. Hate speech is not entertaining. Well it obviously is funny and entertaining to a lot of people. Different strokes. If people are truly entertained by hate speech, then they need to grow up quickly. Hate speech is never entertaining and never funny. That's FACT.
You are simplifying things and stating if all his stream was hate speech.
He is prone to ragequits and strong language when he loses. he is also prone to insane giggling when he destroys somebody.
And he and his guests (Catz, Minigun, Kyle, Sheth and so on) can be hilarious in a group.
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On May 05 2012 06:46 Pudge_172 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right. This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh. If you buy his sponsors products you are supporting him...............
Unless you email razer every time you buy something, and tell them that a big reason you bought it is because of him, that really isn't true at all. They sell millions of products all over the world. The don't know who buys what and why. I buy plenty of razer products. I have a mouse, mousepad, headset, and earbuds. None of them were bought because of Destiny. Me buying these products did not support him in any way. (No idea who his sponsors are, just an example).
On May 05 2012 06:47 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right. This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh. Yeah, wide reaching implications to players who actively use racial slurs in their laddering. Don't be absurd.
If Quantic loses a sponsor because of this, then it effects plenty of players who do not actively use racial slurs while laddering. That's not absurd at all.
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On May 05 2012 06:47 Anomi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:45 HorsemasterK wrote:On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today. I was gonna get involved in this thread, but I think I'll just bump this. +10000 esports points for actually being reasonable/cogent in a Destiny thread. I also done from this thread. This post is allot more resaonbile that any thing i brought up in this thread xD
Well said BroOd.
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Once again, I feel like too many people are hating on Destiny's stream personality
If you guys think Destiny is the ONLY player out there that uses "offensive" language and whatnot and plays for a professional team, youre mistaken.
Anyhow, I'm glad Destiny is manning up to what happened. Gluck in the future
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On May 05 2012 06:42 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:38 Pudge_172 wrote:On May 05 2012 06:33 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:12 Pudge_172 wrote:On May 05 2012 06:06 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 06:05 jxx wrote:
Everyone defending this guy, I would ask: What would happen if Destiny were a football/basketball player or whatever, imagine him behaving like that in a professional environment. What would happen?
I bet everyone here wants e-sports to be taken seriously, but when it comes to professionalism and being responsible people seem to forget about it, and then they bitch about not being taken seriously. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TURN OFF THE STREAM So I guess the black people who didn't like being lynched should have moved north? This is one of the worst comments I have ever seen on an internet forum. Seriously, you should be ashamed of posting that. I don't see what was wrong with the comment. People are arguing that if you don't like Destiny's stream you shouldn't watch it. I just compared that in an extreme way that if black people didn't like being lynched that they should have moved north. Turning off the stream/moving north don't solve the problem. The stream still exists and folks would still be getting lynched. It's the classic "blaming the victim" justification that basement nerds crave. Insulted by racist phrases thrown on stream? Turn off the chat. Don't want to get raped going down the street? Stop wearing slutty clothing. They knew there was gonna be offensive language, given the disclaimer! She knew there she was gonna get attention, given her dress!
The difference is that a woman has a right to wear what clothes she will withing the constraints of local laws without fear of being raped. People DO NOT have a right to not be offended.
Also, I think using the word "victim" in this case is a bit too strong, somebody called him a mean word. That's it, that is all that happened, he was called a mean word. He wasn't punched, kicked, hit, or in any other way assaulted. He wasn't denied equal employment opportunities, he wasn't denied entry to a school, he wasn't denied fair housing. He was called a mean word.
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On May 05 2012 06:49 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:47 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 06:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 StarStrider wrote:
Just FYI to anyone with the wrong facts, the Quantic team sponsorship is small stuff compared to his income, popularity, and publicity from his personal stream. he really fucked himself then when he took a shit on the tl.net website/mods and got himself banned from the sidebar. Yeah that was the only thing that he said that I think was truly in his worst interest. In SC2, getting banned from TL is a big hindrance to your stream viewership. yep. they didnt even do that to idra who was banned for 90 days after he sent his minions against chill. its like destiny has an agenda of screwing himself over as much as possible.
Well, that is pretty much the same every other lonely nerd on the internet. Just gotta watch for chafing.
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On May 05 2012 06:46 Pudge_172 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.
If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?
Seems about right. This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh. If you buy his sponsors products you are supporting him...............
I covered this in my post earlier. If you like a product, then don't let someone you disagree with or are offended by limit your ability to be happy, and buy the product. Razer supported other players, not just Destiny. By not watching his stream, you take money out of his pocket. By buying a Razer mouse that you want, for example, you put some money in his pocket, sure, but you also supported the community as a whole and other players on Quantic.
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On May 05 2012 06:41 Pudge_172 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:35 Smat wrote:On May 05 2012 06:27 Pudge_172 wrote:
What shocks me most is how many people are supportive of the use of blatantly offensive/racists speech. While one can legally use such speech, one must also face the consequences of using such speech.
I would hate to see the young people watching he stream go up to several fine African Americans and call them the n word.
People need to learn to be civil when dealing with each other. Hate speech is not funny. Hate speech is not entertaining. Well it obviously is funny and entertaining to a lot of people. Different strokes. If people are truly entertained by hate speech, then they need to grow up quickly. Hate speech is never entertaining and never funny. That's FACT.
Not that I don't agree with you, but that's not a legitimate argument. That hate speech is never entertaining is true to you, not necessarily anyone else.
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Being brutally honest to the point where you say whatever random rubbish enters your mind at the time isn't a good thing. "Destiny" is incredibly contradictory and antagonistic, and half the stuff he comes out with is to his detriment. Being honest is a good quality; it takes a special someone to turn it into something distasteful, deplorable and embarrassing.
This is a good thing, it'll be a good day for the scene when he's gone completely.
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On May 05 2012 06:49 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:47 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 06:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 StarStrider wrote:
Just FYI to anyone with the wrong facts, the Quantic team sponsorship is small stuff compared to his income, popularity, and publicity from his personal stream. he really fucked himself then when he took a shit on the tl.net website/mods and got himself banned from the sidebar. Yeah that was the only thing that he said that I think was truly in his worst interest. In SC2, getting banned from TL is a big hindrance to your stream viewership. yep. they didnt even do that to idra who was banned for 90 days after he sent his minions against chill. its like destiny has an agenda of screwing himself over as much as possible.
Well, outsiders do so love martyrdom. It will only make the people who like him and his kind of content more atimate (sp?) fans.
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On May 05 2012 06:49 Fliparoni wrote:
The freedom of speech that is protected by laws in this country that allowed Destiny to say those words also allowed people the freedom to go complain to Quantic and Razer.
Remember, what goes around always comes back around. This whole situation is just that; nothing more nothing less. Personally, I just try to live my life by the golden rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself, whether it be in "real" life or the internet.
Care there is no freedom of speech - neither on youtube nor on these forums.
They all are owned privately. For freedom of speech go outside and shout and you probably get a ticket for disturbing the peace 
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EPT
