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Destiny and Quantic part ways - Page 112

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Keep this civil, guys
IcedteaDota
Profile Joined January 2011
223 Posts
May 04 2012 21:53 GMT
#2221
can't wait for SOTG to cover this i only want to hear what they say. these forums are pretty funny though.
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 21:56:16
May 04 2012 21:53 GMT
#2222
On May 05 2012 06:49 MercilessMonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:46 Pudge_172 wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.

If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?



Seems about right.

This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.


If you buy his sponsors products you are supporting him...............


Unless you email razer every time you buy something, and tell them that a big reason you bought it is because of him, that really isn't true at all. They sell millions of products all over the world. The don't know who buys what and why. I buy plenty of razer products. I have a mouse, mousepad, headset, and earbuds. None of them were bought because of Destiny. Me buying these products did not support him in any way. (No idea who his sponsors are, just an example).


I mentioned this earlier, but gaming peripherals and input devices in general are a huge market with tons of brands selling very similar products. As such, the deciding factor may be as simple as what teams/player the company supports. I wouldn't send an email to them every time a picked up a product, but generally I purchase a set of components at once and probably wouldn't mind dropping a 3-4 line email giving the company a heads as to what prompted me to choose their products. That can really help the scene if companies know that these things are making a difference for them.


On May 05 2012 06:51 Heights wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:46 Pudge_172 wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.

If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?



Seems about right.

This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.


If you buy his sponsors products you are supporting him...............


I covered this in my post earlier. If you like a product, then don't let someone you disagree with or are offended by limit your ability to be happy, and buy the product. Razer supported other players, not just Destiny. By not watching his stream, you take money out of his pocket. By buying a Razer mouse that you want, for example, you put some money in his pocket, sure, but you also supported the community as a whole and other players on Quantic.


As stated earlier in this post, the market Razor is in is very competitive. I could quite easily find an alternative to their products and wouldn't necessarily be sacrificing my own happiness to choose such an alternative, but if I want to support them because they support the players/teams I like, it helps make my decisions a tad easier. In the same vein, if a certain polarizing player is preventing me from purchasing their products, I don't see anything wrong with letting them know.
Nazeron
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1046 Posts
May 04 2012 21:53 GMT
#2223
Nooo, TT, wish he could have stayed, really sucks to not see him on a team, he had a pretty nice fit in with them imo. Really wonder if he can find another team or not.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
adrenaLinG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada676 Posts
May 04 2012 21:54 GMT
#2224
On May 05 2012 06:50 Bulldog654 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:42 adrenaLinG wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:38 Pudge_172 wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:33 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:12 Pudge_172 wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:06 BlueLanterna wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:05 jxx wrote:
Everyone defending this guy, I would ask: What would happen if Destiny were a football/basketball player or whatever, imagine him behaving like that in a professional environment. What would happen?

I bet everyone here wants e-sports to be taken seriously, but when it comes to professionalism and being responsible people seem to forget about it, and then they bitch about not being taken seriously.


IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TURN OFF THE STREAM


So I guess the black people who didn't like being lynched should have moved north?

This is one of the worst comments I have ever seen on an internet forum. Seriously, you should be ashamed of posting that.



I don't see what was wrong with the comment. People are arguing that if you don't like Destiny's stream you shouldn't watch it. I just compared that in an extreme way that if black people didn't like being lynched that they should have moved north.


Turning off the stream/moving north don't solve the problem. The stream still exists and folks would still be getting lynched.


It's the classic "blaming the victim" justification that basement nerds crave.

Insulted by racist phrases thrown on stream? Turn off the chat.

Don't want to get raped going down the street? Stop wearing slutty clothing.

They knew there was gonna be offensive language, given the disclaimer!

She knew there she was gonna get attention, given her dress!


The difference is that a woman has a right to wear what clothes she will withing the constraints of local laws without fear of being raped. People DO NOT have a right to not be offended.

Also, I think using the word "victim" in this case is a bit too strong, somebody called him a mean word. That's it, that is all that happened, he was called a mean word. He wasn't punched, kicked, hit, or in any other way assaulted. He wasn't denied equal employment opportunities, he wasn't denied entry to a school, he wasn't denied fair housing. He was called a mean word.

You're talking about negative rights, and I think the right to be free from rape is along the line of the right to be free from hostility. That's what hate speech is all about, but your point is taken nonetheless.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MercilessMonkey
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada150 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 21:56:04
May 04 2012 21:55 GMT
#2225
On May 05 2012 06:53 Mordiford wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:49 MercilessMonkey wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:46 Pudge_172 wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:45 MercilessMonkey wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:38 Bulldog654 wrote:
Destiny called someone a word, which causes no actual harm, so a few "enlightened" people did all that they could to destroy Destiny's income, which causes actual harm.

If people do not behave in a way that we find acceptable, even if that behavior has no effect on us whatsoever, we will cause them actual harm until they conform to our personal code of what is and is not acceptable. Is that pretty much the sum of it?



Seems about right.

This whole situation is disgusting. If people don't like Destiny, great. Don't watch his stream, don't support him. I don't watch his stream, I don't find him particularly amusing; so his stream literally doesn't effect me in any way. But to go kick up a fuss to his team's sponsors, which could have wide reaching implications to plenty of players, and to basically force him to leave the team team is ridiculous. People who didn't like him to begin with, and almost certainly didn't watch his stream, are the one who made it a problem. Ugh.


If you buy his sponsors products you are supporting him...............


Unless you email razer every time you buy something, and tell them that a big reason you bought it is because of him, that really isn't true at all. They sell millions of products all over the world. The don't know who buys what and why. I buy plenty of razer products. I have a mouse, mousepad, headset, and earbuds. None of them were bought because of Destiny. Me buying these products did not support him in any way. (No idea who his sponsors are, just an example).


I mentioned this earlier, but gaming peripherals and input devices in general are a huge market with tons of brands selling very similar products. As such, the deciding factor may be as simple as what teams/player the company supports. I wouldn't send an email to them every time a picked up a product, but generally I purchase a set of components at once and probably wouldn't mind dropping a 3-4 line email giving the company a heads as to what prompted me to choose their products. That can really help the scene if companies know that these things are making a difference for them.


Oh sure, absolutely I agree it can make a big difference if you let them know it. But that's my whole point. Most people do not. I seriously doubt more than a couple people here have sent off any emails telling companies why they bought said products. If you do, that's great and it can probably help the scene. But if I buy a product for unrelated reasons, I'm not really supporting him.
StarStrider
Profile Joined August 2011
United States689 Posts
May 04 2012 21:55 GMT
#2226
On May 05 2012 06:53 IcedteaSC2 wrote:
can't wait for SOTG to cover this i only want to hear what they say. these forums are pretty funny though.


SoTG is the pot and the hosts are the stirrers.

Without SoTG and similar shows the issues in this community wouldn't get nearly blown so far out of proportion.
Spontaneous Pneumothorax sucks, please keep MVP sC in your thoughts. sC fighting! 힘내세요
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
May 04 2012 21:55 GMT
#2227
On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:45 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:42 IMABUNNEH wrote:
Apparently having morals, and pursuing your morals to a conclusion, is now looked down on as being self righteous or elitist?

YES, damn it. You don't get to force others to conform to your beliefs!


Yo, no one forced him to do anything.

How can you say that?

I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him.

If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics.

Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer?


So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!"

No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team.

If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you.

Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used.

They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change.

They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands.

I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet.


Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense.

Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level.

All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything.

"Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of.


You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player.

I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet".

But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel.

However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble".

It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works.

I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power.
Tehs Tehklz
Profile Joined July 2011
United States330 Posts
May 04 2012 21:55 GMT
#2228
Really, you probably would not have to even tell his sponsors that you do not like Destiny's behavior. The things he says are so objectively offensive that simply making a company aware of it would be enough. Any major company would easily make this decision on their own as soon as they know about the situation.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
May 04 2012 21:55 GMT
#2229
On May 05 2012 06:53 IcedteaSC2 wrote:
can't wait for SOTG to cover this i only want to hear what they say. these forums are pretty funny though.

they had SOTG last night and decided not to cover it.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 21:56:44
May 04 2012 21:56 GMT
#2230
Misread something, edited out.
Tehs Tehklz
Profile Joined July 2011
United States330 Posts
May 04 2012 21:57 GMT
#2231
On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:45 Chocobo wrote:
On May 05 2012 05:42 IMABUNNEH wrote:
Apparently having morals, and pursuing your morals to a conclusion, is now looked down on as being self righteous or elitist?

YES, damn it. You don't get to force others to conform to your beliefs!


Yo, no one forced him to do anything.

How can you say that?

I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him.

If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics.

Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer?


So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!"

No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team.

If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you.

Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used.

They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change.

They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands.

I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet.


Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense.

Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level.

All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything.

"Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of.


You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player.

I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet".

But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel.

However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble".

Show nested quote +
It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works.

I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power.


Ayo, no shit, bro. Guess who terminated the deal with Destiny? A band of wild nerds certainly did not break into Razor headquarters and tear up the contract.
pt
Profile Joined November 2010
United States813 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 21:57:40
May 04 2012 21:57 GMT
#2232
Hahaha looking at all this, can you imagine if this happened today?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=213230

"WO he just called 50k people bitch!"


come on, guys. this is absurd.
EG-TL!
Stubentiger
Profile Joined January 2012
48 Posts
May 04 2012 21:58 GMT
#2233
On May 05 2012 06:52 Strabismus wrote:
Being brutally honest to the point where you say whatever random rubbish enters your mind at the time isn't a good thing. "Destiny" is incredibly contradictory and antagonistic, and half the stuff he comes out with is to his detriment. Being honest is a good quality; it takes a special someone to turn it into something distasteful, deplorable and embarrassing.


This is a good thing, it'll be a good day for the scene when he's gone completely.


Maybe but who else is entertaining to watch?
I like Husky and Totalbiscuit as casters, both seem to do mostly events now?
DeMuslim is really cool when he is explaining stuff.

SC2 is entertainment too not only skill. The line between is in discussion
aznball123
Profile Joined February 2012
2759 Posts
May 04 2012 21:59 GMT
#2234
About time he steps down.
Mmm, what to watch.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
May 04 2012 21:59 GMT
#2235
On May 05 2012 06:58 Stubentiger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:52 Strabismus wrote:
Being brutally honest to the point where you say whatever random rubbish enters your mind at the time isn't a good thing. "Destiny" is incredibly contradictory and antagonistic, and half the stuff he comes out with is to his detriment. Being honest is a good quality; it takes a special someone to turn it into something distasteful, deplorable and embarrassing.


This is a good thing, it'll be a good day for the scene when he's gone completely.


Maybe but who else is entertaining to watch?


The people who take the game seriously and actually play well?

just a thought.
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
May 04 2012 22:00 GMT
#2236
On May 05 2012 06:57 pt wrote:
Hahaha looking at all this, can you imagine if this happened today?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=213230

"WO he just called 50k people bitch!"


come on, guys. this is absurd.


Actually, Wheat commentates for EGMC so you could actually contact EG sponsors and get Wheat fired. I guess I should go get my pitchforks out of my closet. BRB.
High Risk Low Reward
StarStrider
Profile Joined August 2011
United States689 Posts
May 04 2012 22:00 GMT
#2237
On May 05 2012 06:55 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 06:53 IcedteaSC2 wrote:
can't wait for SOTG to cover this i only want to hear what they say. these forums are pretty funny though.

they had SOTG last night and decided not to cover it.


Good. The less drama queening the better, especially from respected members of the community. Leave that shit to people like Slasher, don't drag people like Sean Plott into the mud to talk about his stance on it.
Spontaneous Pneumothorax sucks, please keep MVP sC in your thoughts. sC fighting! 힘내세요
Cushion
Profile Joined May 2012
United States14 Posts
May 04 2012 22:00 GMT
#2238
Reading this thread is bad for my health, but I can't help but to post. Everyone is making this something it isn't. So i've come from just being a forum leech that reads, and never contributes to post at least once in this thread.

I truly don't feel what Destiny did falls under rasism. He just used a word, he didn't spit in the guys face for being from a specific race (which i've actually been a victim of)! What he did was obviously wrong and bad manners, but IMHO not racism.

I don't feel like Destiny should have been kicked out of quantic. I think that's going too far. He should recieve some sort of punishment obviously, but to ruin his career (cause no team is going to pick him up). Is far worse of a crime then what he did.

I can't comment on how he got banned from the TL.net sidebar cause I don't know the full story, but it seems like he did do enough to deserve that one.

I can say I've watched destiny's stream before and I felt it was lacking, and a bit stale. However the time I did watch it he used adult language enough for me not to be surprised by something like this. If I'm not mistaken he did have a langauge advisory stamp in his stream thread. We're all guilty of using words that we shouldn't, but crucifying someone for it is even worse then what they did. Just my 2 cents!

Well back to Leeching bye!
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
May 04 2012 22:01 GMT
#2239
On May 05 2012 06:49 Fliparoni wrote:
The freedom of speech that is protected by laws in this country that allowed Destiny to say those words also allowed people the freedom to go complain to Quantic and Razer.

Once again, this is not a freedom of speech issue. Everyone involved was perfectly free to say whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted.

Destiny did something stupid and inappropriate, and deserves the reputation that he gets from that.

But in my opinion it's far more inappropriate to go to someone's employer and try to get them fired just because you don't like that. This is uncalled for, no matter how unpleasant the person is. And it certainly isn't needed when the person is someone you can easily never see again in your life just by making the choice to not watch his stream anymore.
TricksAre4Figs
Profile Joined May 2010
United States125 Posts
May 04 2012 22:01 GMT
#2240
On May 05 2012 07:00 Cushion wrote:
Reading this thread is bad for my health, but I can't help but to post. Everyone is making this something it isn't. So i've come from just being a forum leech that reads, and never contributes to post at least once in this thread.

I truly don't feel what Destiny did falls under rasism. He just used a word, he didn't spit in the guys face for being from a specific race (which i've actually been a victim of)! What he did was obviously wrong and bad manners, but IMHO not racism.

I don't feel like Destiny should have been kicked out of quantic. I think that's going too far. He should recieve some sort of punishment obviously, but to ruin his career (cause no team is going to pick him up). Is far worse of a crime then what he did.

I can't comment on how he got banned from the TL.net sidebar cause I don't know the full story, but it seems like he did do enough to deserve that one.

I can say I've watched destiny's stream before and I felt it was lacking, and a bit stale. However the time I did watch it he used adult language enough for me not to be surprised by something like this. If I'm not mistaken he did have a langauge advisory stamp in his stream thread. We're all guilty of using words that we shouldn't, but crucifying someone for it is even worse then what they did. Just my 2 cents!

Well back to Leeching bye!


I think you're forgetting the part where he is going to do it again and has no intention of admitting it is wrong in any way.
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